First of all this is a late topic because Nemesis was only released here in the uk on friday and I saw it tonight.
In the new refitted observation lounge the models that hang in he background have moved to make way for the "briefing console"(?). In one shot you see the models behind geordi. Does anyone else think that was a model of the nx-01? it looked a hell of a lot like it. just something i wasnt quite sure about and wondered if anyone else had seen it.
Posted by SoundEffect (Member # 926) on :
I've seen Nemesis twice, and while I can't attest to specifically identifying the NX-01, I do recall that there were 4 models on one side of the lounge and 3 on the other. It would be logical if one was NX-01.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
It would NOT be logical at ALL!!
OMG it would be absolutly rediculous.
It would point to a disruption in the time-line then, and would point to Enterprise not actually supposed to happen.
Posted by Starship Millennium (Member # 822) on :
Nice to see I'm not the only one to think this... when I pointed it out a few weeks ago I was promptly shot down...
Those models were pretty screwed up... on the right side of the display has the original Enterprise plus the 1701-B and the 1701-D (Star Trek: The Magazine has a pretty good view of this) while the left (presumably) contains the 1701-A, 1701-C, 1701-E, and the NX-01, also out of chronological order.
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
quote:Originally posted by a man who understands the difficulties of time: It would NOT be logical at ALL!!
OMG it would be absolutly rediculous.
It would point to a disruption in the time-line then, and would point to Enterprise not actually supposed to happen.
We know the timeline was altered in FC and everything that happened after the E returned from the past was set in an alternative timeline, a timeline where the Borg had attacked earth in 2063 and Riker and Geordi, not Lily, were Cochranes co-pilots. Even though it seems as if everything turned out to be wonderful in the end, small temporal anomalies were caused (for example Cochrane actually seeing the E), leading to events like the construction of a Warp 5-vessel that looks much more like a 24th century ship than a 22nd century ship. 200 years later, small events like Lily seeing 24th century tech in her time lead to events like Insurrection (tits- and gorch-jokes, joysticks), Nemesis (Wesley and Janeway), Voyager post season 3 (dumbass Borg), DS9 post season 5 (ridiculous Starwarsish spacebattles) and Enterprise (I wont even start...). Basically everything after FC is not canon! *evil laugh*
That way, we can also explain things like the changing number of decks on the E-E or Janeway's unpredictable behaviour: Time is not static, and by causing an alternate universe everything was messed up. You have certain time bubbles and stuff that caused and cause several anomalies, some sort of shifting between universes. In one universe, the E has 29 decks, in another one it has 26 or 24 or 39 or 12 decks. You cannot say where we are at the moment, and terms like continuity are basically meaningless! *more evil laugh*
We can only hope tht one day someone travels back in time again and stops the sphere from even going back in time. On the other hand, maybe the Borg Queen herself was the one who caused the alternate timeline. Think of it: she appears again and again although she has been blown to shreds, molten down and infected with deadly diseases multiple times. I think temporal physics calls this the "Kenny-Syndrome". We know she hasn't been at Wolf allthough she wants us to think she was, and maybe this is all part of some evil plot of time-travelling agents from the 29th century. On the other hand, the evil guys from the future were encountered by post-season 3-Voyager and Enterprise, and if they never took place, how can those evil future guys even exist? Is this some weird causality loop? A temporal paradox? Or just a continuity issue? *head exploses*
Sorry. What was the topic all about?
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
You are a silly person.
Anyway, having the NX-01 show up would surely be the worst decision ever made, because the ships displayed in the various "ships named Enterprise" niches have never, ever, ever varied. Nope. Not once. A completely unbroken line from the Motion Picture to First Contact. Yes. Oh yes. This is the case. Imagine what complete idiocy would be involved in, like, one Enterprise honoring a sailboat, one aircraft carrier, a space shuttle, and a weirdo ship, and another totally omitting the weirdo ship and the space shuttle? That would be a rift of such unimaginable proportions that I would surely be forced to give up, not just Star Trek, but entertainment, nay, even the experience of that emotion some style "joy" altogether, and retire to the simple life of the desert hermit.
Posted by Snay (Member # 411) on :
You are a silly person.
Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :
Who happens to have some cognitive ability.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Though, to be fair, I am quite silly.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
"Ridiculous".
And no he's not. He just wants to be silly so that the girls will like him.
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
They already like me. Allthough I'm silly. Maybe that's the reason they like me...
Posted by SoundEffect (Member # 926) on :
I just noticed in the latest Star Trek Magazine (Feb 2003) that on page 13, there's a pic of 3 of the 7 models. The starboard side of the observation lounge has the 1701, 1701-D and the 1701-B.
I don't have a scan of the image, sorry!
Posted by Fleet-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
Well, we can always blame the problems to the Temporal Cold War and the small changes in the timeline like the Sovereign Class having 29 decks or how Archer has seen 24th Century holodeck technology in the 21st Century.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
If they put the pre-E there - why not put the Space Shuttle, the Sailing ship, the two aircraft carriers, the ring ship and numerous other ships there?
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Well, they do want to have an outside view, too. They'd have to build a bigger ship in order to fit enough display cases in the lounge, and still retain the windows. And then a bigger ship still so that the model of that big ship could fit in the cases...
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
yes they would have to change the size of the E-E, which would require altering the structure of a previously seen ship with no explanation as to its new dimensions!
um.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: If they put the pre-E there - why not put the Space Shuttle, the Sailing ship, the two aircraft carriers, the ring ship and numerous other ships there?
Yeah! That's as crazy as them putting the aircraft carrier up as a model, and not putting up the shuttle.
Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :
Although it is stupid having it there, at least the pre-E is/was a Starfleet starship.
Posted by SoundEffect (Member # 926) on :
There's really no reason to have to include sailing ships, shuttles and carriers, starships named Enterprise have had a distinguished history all their own. The models in the conference room could just represent Starfleet's history of ships named Enterprise. Nothing wrong with that.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by SoundEffect: The models in the conference room could just represent Starfleet's history of ships named Enterprise. Nothing wrong with that.
Nothing except the fact that the NX-01 never appeared in ANY other display of vessels named Enterprise, because they haven't *been* representative of Starfleet's history of ships with the name. They've either been all the FEDERATION starships to bear the name (which the NX-01 is not one of, obviously) or, in the case of TMP, they've been a collection of the "firsts" in various areas. (The first sailing ship with the name, the first nuclear carrier, the first space shuttle, the first interstellar starship, and the first Federation ship with the name.) Obviously, the NX-01---being the both the first Warp 5 ship and the first Starfleet vessel with the name---would fit right in with the latter list, but not with the former. If the Enterprise-D's model display and the Enterprise-E's display in FC didn't include the NX-01, then there's no reason to add it to the E-E's list now. The explanantion for its being absent, of course, being that it was not a Federation vessel. What would be the explanantion for them suddenly switching in 2378 from displaying all UFP Enterprises to all Starfleet Enterprises?
-MMoM Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
You know what's the worst continuity error of all? In all the displays we've seen, they've never, ever shown the Goodyear blimp Enterprise! My god, what were they thinking??!!
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:What would be the explanantion for them suddenly switching in 2378 from displaying all UFP Enterprises to all Starfleet Enterprises?
Actually, the NX-01 has always been depicted in the various displays, from TMP to TNG. You just never saw it because you weren't quick enough to catch it before the scenes changed.
See, I can BS just as well as B&B can.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim:
quote:Originally posted by SoundEffect: The models in the conference room could just represent Starfleet's history of ships named Enterprise. Nothing wrong with that.
Nothing except the fact that the NX-01 never appeared in ANY other display of vessels named Enterprise, because they haven't *been* representative of Starfleet's history of ships with the name. They've either been all the FEDERATION starships to bear the name (which the NX-01 is not one of, obviously) or, in the case of TMP, they've been a collection of the "firsts" in various areas. (The first sailing ship with the name, the first nuclear carrier, the first space shuttle, the first interstellar starship, and the first Federation ship with the name.)
And the Enterprise-D display was obviously all the Federation starships called Enterprise.
And the aircraft carrier.
And the Enterprise-B was blatantly wrong.
WHY DID IT NOT HAVE THE SPACE SHUTTLE WHICH EXISTED AND WAS DOUBLE GOOD POO!
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Well, I should have known better than to expect that TPTB might come up with some kind of EXPLANATION for why we've never heaed of the NX-01, instead of ADVERTISING it by adding it to the models and thereby asking us ONCE AGAIN to just "pretend" it was always there. Personally, I find that distasteful.
-MMoM Posted by E. Cartman (Member # 256) on :
Maybe Federation historians lobbied to have the NX class entered into the flagship's Hall Of Fame all along, but were constantly opposed by Starfleet's Temporal Integrity and Continuity Preservation divisions? EXPLANATIONS abound, chap!
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
I realize that there are explanations we can come up with, but I just (stupidly, of course) thought that TPTB might have had some sort of PLAN for the fate of the NX-01, like being destroyed or defamed or erased from history or something. Something clever. But it's clear to me now that they're just going to ignore the fact that the ship is now sitting in the conference lounge of the E-E for all to see. And we're just supposed to accept it. I call it a lack of effort, or at the very least a lack of foresight.
-MMoM Posted by Akira (Member # 850) on :
Maybe Enterprise is NOT STAR TREK :-)
Based on Star Trek not Star Trek
I think we could say it was an inside joke with the interior desighn people just to bug us
Maybe what MMM is saying can be taken as half true. Enterprise happened but kept away from everyone knowing and made top secret. Until Nemesis that the Federation said that there was another Enterprise that was a warp 5 ship.
I dunno im stupid
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
(no comment)
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Chris, just by saying that, I don't think anyone will listen to you and believe anything you say... because after all, you said you're stupid.
Posted by SoundEffect (Member # 926) on :
I'd rather accept that the NX-01 wasn't included in all displays than that the Enterprise-B was a standard Excelsior Class. If we can accept that change, we can accept NX-01!
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
Now that the movie is available on DVD, can anyone confirm or confute the NX-01 rumour?
Posted by Ryan McReynolds (Member # 28) on :
See for yourself... there's only one more shot of the models, and it's blurry and behind a head. Unless I forgot about another observation lounge scene.
Well, there is room for at least 12 models. So it's possible NX-01 could be there along with a few others.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Why does Picard have a blue-dot on his head!?! Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
I see 5 li..err..8 ships.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
You may see 8 models, but it looks like both walls mirror each other, so there's room for at least 12 models.
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
Let's assume that there is an NX-model on display. Why would they have put it there?
1. Enterprise wasn't supposed to happen until "First Contact". Now the future is almost identical to the one we know, only that there is a ship named Enterprise that would have carried a different name before the time travel. But Cochrane was so impressed by the visitors from the future that he decided to name the ship Enterprise. Actually this is one change to the timeline I could accept. Anything with more of an impact may be more realistic, since we know that several humans were killed on Earth in FC and that people's lives were changed in an unpredictable fashion. But we know that the post-FC Federation is essentially the same as before FC. If there had been more severe changes to the space program in the 21st/22nd century (*Akira*-prise), the future would be completely different and would never converge to the future we know (second law of thermodynamics). On the other hand, with such a stance ("it was all changed anyway"), B&B could decide to allow anything to happen in Enterprise, in which they were already quite productive.
2. Enterprise has always existed, and was missing only by accident on the Enterprise refit and the Enterprise-D wall. Well, while it may seem silly that two decorators made the same mistake, this option would work too. Most of all, it would work for casual fans who could not distinguish different timelines and who might ask in one of those chats, "Mr. Berman, where was Enterprise NX-01 on the Enterprise-D ship wall?" -- "You must imagine that it has always been there. Enterprise is supposed to be an integral part of Star Trek's history. Only that I and Brannon sometimes forget that." Oh well, without the last sentence.
Posted by Proteus (Member # 212) on :
Cpt. Kyle Amasov nailed it right on the head
Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
If there is space for 12 ships, I would think it's the 6 we've seen before (nil, A, B, C, D, E), with each ship represented twice, once on each side of the room.
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