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<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1" width="95%" align="center"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"><td> <table border="0" width="100%" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"> <td colspan="2" align="left"> <font size="3" color="#FFFFFF" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>T O P I C ��� R E V I E W</b> </font></td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Kazeite</b> <br /><small>Member # 970</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,1,21,8,26,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 21, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">08:26 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I was wondering if there are any deck plans of Star Trek starships on the net. I know there are quite a few pages that display deck plans, but maybe some of you know about other plans?<br /><br />For the record, I know about these plans:<br />Constitution deck plans at Original Trek,<br />Oberth deck plans at Star Trek Universe,<br />Modified Constitution and Constitution refit (and couple of others) at JohnB Shipyards,<br />Miranda/Avenger deck plans by Federation Frontiers,<br />Defiant deck plans at Maximum Defiant,<br />and finally Galaxy deck plans, which doesn't appear to be online anymore.<br /><br />Anything I missed? <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Harry</b> <br /><small>Member # 265</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,1,21,10,5,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 21, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:05 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> There was a 100% illegal website at <a href="http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/5407/ncc1701d.htm" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/5407/ncc1701d.htm</a> with the Ent-D blueprints. It exceedes it's bandwith after every five images viewed, though... <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Harry</b> <br /><small>Member # 265</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,1,22,3,16,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 22, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">03:16 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Let's use this thread for something else (you might want to move this to the Tech forum).<br /><br />This was the first time I saw the Franz Joseph Constitution deck plans (thanks, Kazeite!).<br /><br />It certainly is a bit strange, IMO.<br /><br />The Bridge<br />- I know that extra door next to the viewscreen was in TAS, but did we ever see that section of the bridge in TOS? If so, there probably wasn't a door there, right?<br /><br />Deck 2-3<br />- It's a bit of an awkward position for labs (you'd imagine that bulge was there for some reason, and the labs could be anywhere on the ship).<br /><br />Deck 4<br />- I never thought about water tanks, actually. But you would need have a lot of water for 400+ people... Does the TNGTM mention anything water?<br /><br />The rest of the saucer section is okay, except for the placement of engineering and the machinery there. But what's up with all those "Personal Isolation Cells" placed in every unused corner?<br /><br />Deck 8<br />- Gardens? I bet that space could be used for something a bit more useful.<br />- I like that computer design. Rows and rows of noisy supercomputers as they were imagined in the 60s.<br /><br />There are of course more oddities because we now know so much more about how starships work. Like the lower sensor dome on the saucer and the lack of any recognizable engineering parts in the engineering hull.<br /><br />Oh, and the pool on Deck 20. Was a pool ever mentioned? I do remember vaguely that they mentioned the bowling alley in some early episode. Oh, and wasn't there a very primitive holodeck-like room in TAS somewhere? <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>AndrewR</b> <br /><small>Member # 44</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,1,22,5,19,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 22, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">05:19 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> This is at least one shot that shows the side to the left of Spock - no door. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Kazeite</b> <br /><small>Member # 970</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,1,22,6,17,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 22, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:17 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Well, that plans are supposed to represent Achernar subclass, while the series Enterprise is supposedly Bonhomme Richard subclass.<br />Achernar simply does have that door and WC incorporated into deck 1, while BR doesn't.<br /><br />I agree that there are certain oddities, like lack of any visible deflector structures, except dish. Hovewer, this is fascinating piece of trek history and I'm glad that I at last could see them <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" /> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>The Mighty Monkey of Mim</b> <br /><small>Member # 646</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,1,22,15,26,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 22, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">03:26 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Disregarding the silly fandom "Achernar" and "Bonhomme Richard" subclass ideas, Kazeite is quite correct in pointing out that the plans represent the <i>U.S.S. Constitution</i>, the prototype of the class, and it is very reasonable to assume any discrepancies with other individual ships (such as the <i>Enterprise</i>) are simply that---individual variances in the design of individual ships.<br /><br />-<b>MMoM</b> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Topher</b> <br /><small>Member # 71</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,1,22,17,28,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 22, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">05:28 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim:<br /><strong> Disregarding the silly fandom "Achernar" and "Bonhomme Richard" subclass ideas</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">In fandom, they're separate classes. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="tongue.gif" /> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>The Mighty Monkey of Mim</b> <br /><small>Member # 646</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,1,22,18,30,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 22, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:30 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Whatever. In fandom, a ship changes classes as it gets upgraded or modified. Which is utter fecking bull's excrement.<br /><br />Sorry. I'm feeling caustic tonight.<br /><br />-<b>MMoM</b> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Identity Crisis</b> <br /><small>Member # 67</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,1,23,2,6,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 23, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">02:06 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim:<br /><strong> Whatever. In fandom, a ship changes classes as it gets upgraded or modified. Which is utter fecking bull's excrement.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Why? It's just a label? There's nothing magical or special about the words 'Constitution class', they're just words that are used to label a particular design of starship, if starfleet wants to change the label, or to apply different labels to different variations of the design then they can and should.<br /><br />"The mission to Planet Zee requires a ship of at least Constitution class capabilities."<br /><br />"Admiral, the USS Whatsit has been lost at Planet Zee. She just wasn't up to the job."<br /><br />"Why was the Whatsite assigned to that mission?"<br /><br />"She was Constitution class, just like you requested."<br /><br />It doesn't really matter if Starfleet uses the any of the terms - Bonhomme Richard class; Constitution class, Bonhomme Richard sub-class; Constution class, variant Bonhome Richard 15982g-45; Constitution class, batch 14; etc, etc. <br /><br />We can argue about the "evidence" from ST II and ST VI for ages but it's really not worth giving it a moment's extra thought. <br /><br />So long as everyone knows what is meant when someone says Tikopai class or Archernar sub-class, or Constitution class (WNMHGB variant). <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Harry</b> <br /><small>Member # 265</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,1,23,2,47,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 23, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">02:47 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> But still, even if it is the USS Constitution, the interior still doesn't make a lot of sense, considering what we know today about Star Trek's starships. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Kazeite</b> <br /><small>Member # 970</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,1,23,13,37,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 23, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">01:37 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Yep, it suffers, for example, from the Tiny Engine Syndrome, just like Millenium Falcon official deck plan.<br />TES basically means that engines of the given craft are incredibly compact, taking only small amount of internal space. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" /> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Topher</b> <br /><small>Member # 71</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,1,23,18,10,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 23, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:10 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim:<br /><strong>Sorry. I'm feeling caustic tonight.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oh, so you're a very strong base now, are you? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="tongue.gif" /> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Futurama Guy</b> <br /><small>Member # 968</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,1,24,3,52,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 24, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">03:52 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Did they ever have a deck configuration set up for the Enterprise during TOS? They seemed, often eager, to say 'such and such' is located on 'deck X' and I am sure there has been considerable conflict at times regarding what is where, but does anyone know for fact if there was a method to their madness??<br /><br />BTW, the bowling alley was mention in 'The Naked Time', as there was to be a formal dance there at 1900 hours, according to the intoxicated Riley.<br />One would wonder how that works in space, as turbulence or a photon torpedo could really screw up a perfect game. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Timo</b> <br /><small>Member # 245</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,1,24,5,36,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 24, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">05:36 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Hmm. Moderators of a certain forum *cannot* go pillage the fori of others. High time to find out. Oh, well. Eric, could you do the honors? The S&T forum could use this thread...<br /><br />Timo Saloniemi <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>The Mighty Monkey of Mim</b> <br /><small>Member # 646</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,1,24,7,10,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 24, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">07:10 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Futurama Guy:<br /><strong> Did they ever have a deck configuration set up for the Enterprise during TOS? They seemed, often eager, to say 'such and such' is located on 'deck X' and I am sure there has been considerable conflict at times regarding what is where, but does anyone know for fact if there was a method to their madness??<br /><br />BTW, the bowling alley was mention in 'The Naked Time', as there was to be a formal dance there at 1900 hours, according to the intoxicated Riley.<br />One would wonder how that works in space, as turbulence or a photon torpedo could really screw up a perfect game. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The answers are:<br />1. No.<br />2. The ever-reliable Structural Integrity Fields<sup>TM</sup>.<br /><br />-<b>MMoM</b> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Darkwing</b> <br /><small>Member # 834</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,1,24,8,19,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 24, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">08:19 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim:<br /><strong> Disregarding the silly fandom "Achernar" and "Bonhomme Richard" subclass ideas, Kazeite is quite correct in pointing out that the plans represent the <i>U.S.S. Constitution</i>, the prototype of the class, and it is very reasonable to assume any discrepancies with other individual ships (such as the <i>Enterprise</i>) are simply that---individual variances in the design of individual ships.<br /><br />-<b>MMoM</b> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually, I like the subclass idea. So long as it's made clear that they're all still Constitution class, the subclass idea makes sense. It's easier to remember and discuss than the real-life version. For example, Arleigh Burke class DDGs are known as Flight I, Flight II, and Flight IIAlfa to show the various versions built. Constitution, BHR, Achernar, etc are easier to remember and make a more complete mental picture.<br /><br />edit: going back to the real world, there are examples of sub-classes with different names.<br />1) Kidd class destroyers. Four ships built for the Shah of Iran, to high end Spruance specs, with added air filtration. When turned over to the Navy, instead of delivering them to Khomeini, they were named Kidd class, not added to the rolls of Spruances.<br /><br />2) YF-12A, A-12, SR-71 were all differnt. Only the SR-71 saw production, and therefore got a name, but each had different designations, so may have received different names if they had been produced (one of LBJ's many fucked up decisions, IMO).<br /> <br /> <small>[ February 25, 2003, 11:14 AM: Message edited by: Darkwing ]</small> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Darkwing</b> <br /><small>Member # 834</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,1,24,8,27,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 24, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">08:27 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Harry:<br /><strong> Let's use this thread for something else (you might want to move this to the Tech forum).<br /><br />Deck 4<br />- I never thought about water tanks, actually. But you would need have a lot of water for 400+ people... Does the TNGTM mention anything water?<br /><br />But what's up with all those "Personal Isolation Cells" placed in every unused corner?<br /><br />Deck 8<br />- Gardens? I bet that space could be used for something a bit more useful.<br /><br />Oh, and wasn't there a very primitive holodeck-like room in TAS somewhere? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Gardens would be an absolute necessity in a starship, simply to provide a sanity-helping touch of green.<br /><br />Personal isolation cells would be one way to give folks some privacy, although the Enterprise does provide far more personal space than any real world military ship.<br /><br />Yes, TAS had a holo rec room. It wasn't supposed to be solid, but temperature controls allowed a snowstorm in one ep. In one of the Foster adaptations, IIRC, I think mention was made of a fencing robot draped in a hologram of a fencer for Sulu to spar with.<br /><br />Water tankage makes sense to me, but I think the TNGTM simply assumes the replicators take care of that. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Harry</b> <br /><small>Member # 265</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,1,24,10,39,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 24, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:39 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Another oddity I found on both the general plans and the TM. There's no science station on the bridge <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="confused.gif" /> . It's called the Command Intelligence station or somesuch militaristic nonsense.<br /><br />Oh and "Personal Isolation Room" sounded like a brig to me... or else something I'd rather not think about. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>TSN</b> <br /><small>Member # 31</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,1,24,12,4,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 24, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:04 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <blockquote>"...fori..."</blockquote><br />Fora. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Treknophyle</b> <br /><small>Member # 509</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,1,24,12,13,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 24, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:13 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> You'd have to have water tankage - even if only as a buffer for the recycling systems.<br /><br />In the event of computer/replicator failure, you'd be SOL - emergency supplies be damned.<br /><br />Also, it is enormously more energy efficient to filter/process used H2O than to dematerialize it and replicate more. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Harry</b> <br /><small>Member # 265</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,1,24,12,31,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 24, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:31 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> The TNGTM does mention fresh water tanks somewhere. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Timo</b> <br /><small>Member # 245</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,1,25,0,34,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 25, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:34 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> One wonders if D2O could be used instead. Oxidizing some of the ship's fuel could be a relatively simple and robust way to provide water. <br /><br />The USS Constitution blueprints indeed have minimal space dedicated to engines and weapon systems, which makes them look downright silly. One could perhaps say that NCC-1700 was not a fully operational starship but instead a very lightly armed and underpowered one, testing the spaceframe for later ships that carried heavier gear. Instead of (or in addition to) the dinky little torp throwers below the bridge, NCC-1701 would have a more TNG-sized primary launcher or three at the canonical place, etc.<br /><br />Timo Saloniemi <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Starbuck</b> <br /><small>Member # 153</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,1,25,7,29,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 25, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">07:29 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Timo:<br /><strong>The USS Constitution blueprints indeed have minimal space dedicated to engines and weapon systems, which makes them look downright silly. One could perhaps say that NCC-1700 was not a fully operational starship but instead a very lightly armed and underpowered one, testing the spaceframe for later ships that carried heavier gear.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Or perhaps it's a combination of two things: first, that Franz Joseph overestimated how advanced TOS's technology was, and went a bit overboard with the miniaturization; and second, that TNG was designed with a 20th century audience in mind, so everything's a bit bulkier than it might be just so the audience can relate to it - and thus, tiny phaser arrays and warp engines that use minute quantities of fuel got retconned out of existance. <br /> </font> </td></tr> </table></td></tr></table> <br /> <br />
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