This is the Kradin fighter from Voyager's Nemesis, as published in the Fact Files (and the Magazine, as far as I know). Today, I got the FF-issue and had a closer look at the vessel. What was the original use of this vessel? I guess it's quite clear the ship was not designed for its two-second-appearance on the show (judging, for example, by the huge letter "A" on it instead of an alien symbol or the level of detail that went into the design.)
Posted by Hunter (Member # 611) on :
Well "Nemesis" was fourth season which I believe was after Foundation got the sfx contract for Voyager right?
It dosen't look like something that would or was reused in a later episode, could it be something from a cut episode?
The only other thing that I could think of is htat it bears a slight remsblace to one of the ground attack aircraft form the B5 episode, so maybe its a reuse of that or a minor modification?
Posted by Cartmaniac (Member # 256) on :
Eek. Somebody had a bit of fun with the A-10...
[ March 03, 2003, 06:47 AM: Message edited by: Cartmaniac ]
Posted by Starbuck (Member # 153) on :
I dunno about the "A", but if you look at the wings, they have the distinct Foundation Imaging triangle logo on 'em.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
I was just thinking the same thing -- those wings look suspiciously like the maneuvering thrusters on the Starfury fighters...
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Well, I've found a grainy picture of the B5 VTOL here that really doesn't look much like it. Possibly the same guy who designed it, but almost certainly not the same model.
Mark
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
I noticed the Foundation logo on the wings, too.
As for the use of the ship in the episode, the only time we saw it was the a brief moment when two of them were going to attack a town, and we didn't even see the attack, just two planes passing by. I can't imagine there have been other shots planned but not executed since it wouldn't have fit into the episode. Chakotay, IIRC, arrived at the village after the attack.
Could it be from "Starship Troopers"? Did they make that show before or after Voyager's fourth season?
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
After. This hideously cool RSTC Field Guide shows no such vehicle.
Mark
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
If you look closely, it's just a horribly stretched and compressed F-5 Freedom Fighter or F-20 Tigershark, with engine pods on the wing tips and gun mounts added to the fuselage. Looks like it might have some Jaguar in it as well.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: After. This hideously cool RSTC Field Guide shows no such vehicle.
Mark
I don't know, that "Tactical Bomber" bares some resemblance. The Kradin fighter is probably a cut, paste & tweek job of that bomber and the Thunderbolt from B5.
Posted by Hunter (Member # 611) on :
Looking at the Thunderbolt from B5 the Kradin fighter appears to be a reuse of that (the missle on the wings appear to be the exact same) along with the nose gun.
They probalby reused it for the Tactical Bomber.
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
Question is what to do with this fighter design. First of all, we would have to ignore the "A" (don't tell me it's coincidentally a letter on this planet too) and the obviously heraldic emblem. Clearly the laws of aerodynamics are the same on that planet (otherwise Chakotay might have had a problem with breathing). So we should not expect a civilization on the technological level of 21st century Earth to come up with something radically different. Still, the aircraft looks like an amalgam of existing Earth designs. It could join the US Air Force exactly as it is, and no one would be surprised.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
At least it is a perfectly plausible design for its role, technologically speaking.
The cockpit is nicely shaped for a ground attack aircraft, and the camo paint and the heavy cannon under the chin befit this role as well. The missiles can be air-to-ground or air-to-air ordnance equally plausibly. And the wings and the wingtip "engine pods" just yell "practical VTOL", even if the lift engines aren't in plain view.
On the minus side, the vertical stabilizer is surprisingly humble for a low-speed plane that needs a lot of control authority. The winglets on the pods might compensate a bit. But why is the vertical tail there in the first place, then? The use of tailplanes on Earth aircraft is less an aerodynamic necessity and more a historical artifact. Do the Kradin have birds that look like this?
The body also looks curiously as if it were attempting an area rule, which makes no sense for a subsonic plane like this. But that's probably just a coincidence.
And the jet intakes will eat the exhausts of those smaller chin cannon... In the real world, those cannon would no doubt be farther back. Unless they are lasers or other muzzle-exhaust-less weapons.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
One possibility we might consider is that this isn't an actual Kradin aircraft but a part of the illusion that was assembled from Chakotay's subconscious as something he'd immediately recognise as an attack craft. Much like the villagers who looked very human, possibly to make it easier for him to sympathise with.
This is a good possibility given that these illusions are probably specifically tailored to each individual's emotional responses, for instance an alien from a culture where Ornithopter aircraft are prevalent may have seen a flapping wing attack craft or an alien from a culture where disc shaped helicopters (like the Drazi have in B5) would have seen a similar such aircraft.
So the possibility exists that this is an actual Earth attack fighter from the 21st or 22nd century, or it is an amalgam of several such designs which were extrapolated from Chakotay's memory.
That would certainly solve the Roman lettering problem...unless the Kradin is another one of those dublicate Earths. Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
It's been a long time, but I thought that the training camp experience was real, in the sense that it was actually taking place somewhere, albeit not in the way that Chakotay believed.
Beyond that, the whole exercise was designed to get him to side with them, no? I wouldn't think they'd have much to gain by misrepresenting what they or their enemy looked like. You want your new ally to be able to recognize you, after all.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
The impression that I got is that they were turning passing aliens into lone nutters charging through the jungle shooting at everything that moved, not organised members of a directed unit. So the exact details don't matter so much, all that matters is that the subjects percieve targets, indeed didn't Chakotay percieve Tuvok as a Kradin initially?
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