just returned from the star trek adventure and as i've not seen them anywhere else on the net i decided to write down the ships from the LCARS display about wolf 359..... (no registries or classes were given, all USS) Klondike Esteban Watley Volga Tokyo Everest Maxwell Gauss Neptune Vega Pioneer Nepal Popovich Falcon Gemini Vandenberg Pueblo Zetar Peking Beagle Brahms Rixx Solaris Khumbu Shimoda Marco Polo
all the ships we already know were also listed in a seperate column in a lighter shade of blue. just lettin ya all know.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
Next time you should use the search function. This stuff is about 3 years old. Posted by aneurysm (Member # 906) on :
aaahhh well i couldnt find anything and i was just trying to help, next time you could try appreciating that.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Although Spike had a grin... that was a bit harsh Spike.
Thanks Aneurysm!
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
But that information was pointed out in the last thread about this display/event thing, which is only a few months old.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
A quick flare search would have found those, so they already are kinda on the net . Too bad they are not canon...... Posted by Anti Spark (Member # 949) on :
Newbie question!
What do you mean buy the term "Canon?" Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
uh-oh
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"What do you mean buy the term 'Canon?'"
The TV shows (except TAS) and the movies. These are canon, because they are the only things in the Trek universe that the writers are required to adhere to in writing future stories (even though they don't), so they're the only things that can be taken as "real" in the world of Trek.
Beyond that, it gets complicated, w/ everyone trying to come up w/ their own definitions of "canon" to fit the things they personally like. But what I said above is the only correct definition.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Thats why the ships listed at the beginning of this post are not canon. The display they are listed on was never used "on screen", the ships were never verbally identified as being there and were fabricated soley for the purpose of that display.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I think "cannon" refers to that big freakin' phaser Guinan kept behind the bar on the Enterprise D. Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:Although Spike had a grin... that was a bit harsh Spike.
Nope, it's just a case of cultural difference. German-speaking people just use a more straight forward language, which English-speaking people misstook for harshness. For example, if I didn't agree with someone, I'd simply say: Nope, I don't agree with you. Someone from the UK would probably say: I'm afraid that I can't agree with you.
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
quote:Nope, it's just a case of cultural difference. German-speaking people just use a more straight forward language, which English-speaking people misstook for harshness.
Spike: Next time, in best Austrian tradition, you could respond like this: "I'm afraid to ask you if you might please mind the inconvenience to consider to allow me to have the impertinence to respectfully express my opinion that, under unfortunate circumstances that I kindly ask you to understand, I may insignificantly disagree with your well-considered views."
But actually, there has already been a thread about the new ship list. I don't consider it as canon either, and it neglects to list one or two names that we know were involved.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Or you could go for the proper English way of disagreeing: "I'm with you all the way, George!"
As long as we've got nothing else to go by, we *could* entertain ourselves with assigning the names from that list to the unnamed ships we know were present. But since there's no clear logic by which to proceed, this better be done over at the art/creative forum...
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
quote:Or you could go for the proper English way of disagreeing: "I'm with you all the way, George!"
Actually, Blair's Scottish... Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
And George is true blue Texan....yeeeeeeHaw!
I'm sorry George, but I am afraid I do not agree....
Posted by switchbladeNGC (Member # 983) on :
quote: "What do you mean buy the term 'Canon?'"
The TV shows (except TAS) and the movies. These are canon, because they are the only things in the Trek universe that the writers are required to adhere to in writing future stories (even though they don't), so they're the only things that can be taken as "real" in the world of Trek.
I thought that some of the books were concidered cannon depending on who wrote them. If so, which authors write cannon material? Also, other than startrek.com, are there any websites out there with only cannon material (assuming startrek.com has only cannon material)?
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Firstly, it's canon, with a singular 'n.'
Secondly, the only thing that can really be said to be absolute canon are the shows and films themselves. (Paramount has never been quite clear on whether TAS is included, but personally I see no justifiable reason for it not to be.) Ranking just below this are official published reference materials including the TNG and DS9 Technical Manuals, (which have the virtue of being compiled by Rick Sternbach and Mike Okuda, who were for a long time the keepers of the technical flame within Star Trek production circles) and to a somewhat lesser extent the ST Chronology and ST Magazine/Fact Files. The important thing to remember though is that while information from these sources is often utilized and is generally adhered to by writers and producers on the shows, there is always a chance that it may be modified or re-defined by future filmed productions. (Especially where the information was based largely on conjecture in the first place.) So essentially they are considered (by most) to be "canon except where contradicted by onscreen material."
There is also stuff like production notes, series bibles, and interviews given by production staff. This type of information---that may come from official paramount sources but has never been explicitly stated onscreen or published in a reference source---is often considered to be authoritative (especially if it has been upheld by onscreen or printed sources) but may not always hold true as things progress and develop on a show. So it kind of falls in a gray area of "not really true canon, but fairly reliable."
As to novels, it is generally accepted that no novels are canon. Of course, there can get to be some debate about whether some of the background information given in sources such as Jeri Taylor's Mosaic and Pathways might be considered to fall in the above category, but that always seems to get a little too iffy for my tastes.
And there you have it, in a nutshell. For the record, My Starship List site utilizes only canonical material in its main body, (though non-canon and fandom stuff is included in the annotations) with a few possible exceptions that are clarified on the introduction page.
-MMoM Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Back to the topic: Who rendered the "Wolf 359 Mystery shp" from a few weeks back? Rev? Timo? Maso? I'm building the ship right now in 1:2500th and wanted the artist's opinion prior to posting the pics in tomorrow. Posted by Akira (Member # 850) on :
i posted on version and so did someone else
Mine looked like the Springfield alot
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Then you, mt friend, get partial credit! I'll post in with pics this evening of the completed model. I remained pretty true to the final 2-D design with a couple of exceptions: The nacelles are a bit thicker (mabye 15%). I spaced the nacelles farther apart: I tried it the way it was originally represented and it just looked odd. The saucer is a *bit* more oval now. A couple of tiny details were added for practicalitys sake: a rear shuttlebay and forward torpedo launcher (neither of wich changes the ship's profile or silloutte. I made her the USS Rigel (so we'll finally have a ship to go with the name). Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Back to the topic: Who rendered the "Wolf 359 Mystery shp" from a few weeks back? Rev? Timo? Maso? I'm building the ship right now in 1:2500th and wanted the artist's opinion prior to posting the pics in tomorrow.
The other one. It looks simular, but more detailed with all views represented and the nacelles were attached to a central pylon. Wait a couple of hours more and i'll have the pics of the model up for your parusal. Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
With all due respect, Jason, Reverend's pic is probably closer to what the original model was supposed to look like. However, I await to see your model as well.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
That was nice too, but it looks too mych like a podless Springfield for what I wanted. .....although if you added the pod it would make for a Springfield refit.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Is this the ship that Okuda was going to build but never got around to doing it? What was the story behind this again? It does look a little like a podless Springfield.
Abby - I REALLY love your Rigel class. It is very spiffy!
How'd you make it? With left over kit parts? custom built kit parts? Micromachines? (was that you who did that) It is very nice.
Andrew
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
The saucer from the Rigel was once a Enterprise D saucer from a Generations toy. I had to sand off all the details, putty it smooth, draw in deflector panel lines (some scribing here too) and then add the windows, registry and lifeboats via my own custom decals. The secondary hull (if you can call it that) are scratchbuilt with styrene and the nacelles were modified from an old Playmates "innerspace" toy (an awful toy with lots of bueatiful -if inaccurate- detail: good for parts and cheap). The Rigel is about 5" long and is based on the second idea whipped up to represent the Okuda concept. Anybody got a link to that old thread or is it lost forever? THis is the final design I based the Rigel class on (top picture)
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: Abby - I REALLY love your Rigel class. It is very spiffy!
How'd you make it? With left over kit parts? custom built kit parts? Micromachines? (was that you who did that) It is very nice.
Andrew
If you mean the thread over at Art Asylum, then yes, that is my stuff, but no, they are not micromachines. I think the folks over at AA forums thought my 2500th models were the much smaller micromachines toys (a mix-up after posters there began requesting a "micro line" of starships in scale with each other....I think!).
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Jason do you have anymore galleries with your ship pics?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Wow. You took the crappiest of my pics and made it look fantastic! Thanks! If you go to http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view and type in "cojoker" as the member name you can see the over 80 ships I have built and taken pics of. Please feel free to work your photoshop magic on any of the pics! Would you mind if I posted the above pic you made? It would look great in the "Photoshopped Images album. I am still learning the program and have a album full of my ships with nifty backgrounds, but I've yet to masteer the motion blur effects. Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Jason, your next step is to start casting. It'd be nice to makesome additions of to my fleet, being the small ship fan I am.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I have some stuff out for initial casting now and the casts will show what needs to get fixed prior to making reproductions. In the meantime I could put you in contact with the guy that makes the AGT and Nebula conversions and Ravenstar studios is releasing the Vor'Cha, New Orleans and (likely) the Valdor Warbird this year. (all in 2500th to match your own esteemed work) TM Lindsey is releasing the NX and NCC versions of the Excelsior in 2500th as well as a "parts pack" to build all those DS9 Excelsior variant kitbashes everyone loves. ...and if you really want a great 2500th model you should get the NX-01. It's amazing and available now (I'll post pics once it's completed). Meanwhile a certain poster here has volunteered to CG a bridge for the Merrimac design. Coolness.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Wow. You took the crappiest of my pics and made it look fantastic! Thanks! Would you mind if I posted the above pic you made? It would look great in the "Photoshopped Images album. I am still learning the program and have a album full of my ships with nifty backgrounds, but I've yet to masteer the motion blur effects.
Hey THANKS! And yeah - no problem - take and use!
It was... fun! Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Sweet! Do some more! I added the pic to the "Newest ships" album with credit to you (of course). Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
...and Hey! Where the heck is Lobo now a' days anyway? Embedded somewhere? Checking in via Satelite phone?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Hands up who likes the Rigel design!?! I do. Why couldn't he have had something akin to this design during the Borg battle of First Contact? Or in the Dominion War?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I would have settled for just seeing the New Orleans, Challenger, Springfield and Chyenne classes during the Dominion War. Hell, we only saw the Excelsior Refit (Lakota) the one time and never in major battles! I'll have to snap some pics of my Renassiance class USS Colorado this week along with the new fleet shots. I have a LOT of ships that have only one pic or less. Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
If you're going to take some happy snaps - can you do this for me. Can you shine a light at an angle to the ship that you are photographing while making the ambient light lower?
This gives a single light source for the model - and makes it easier to photo-shop.
Andrew
P.S. you could use a desk lamp or torch or even one room light in a darkened room.
Andrew
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I'm snapping pics in a hour and I'll make a prominent light scource for your P-Shoppin' skills. Normally the pics are to show all the detail for critique from fellow modelers and we use reflectors to illuminate the whole model. Any ship you'd like to see in particular?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Nothing in particular - a nice selection. Maybe some that are each at a similar vantage/angle.
Actually maybe the Norway??
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
[ March 29, 2003, 06:38 AM: Message edited by: AndrewR ]
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
SWEEET. The Elkins looks great at warp! Where did you get the warpfield for that? Do you mind if I remove the black metal rod holding up the Ambassador when I post it? I have a pretty new Nebula and a "Medusa" as well to take pics of this week.....and I'll get some nice pics of te Norway (there are already some up now). I was thinking of taking Aban's Ageian class illustration and using photoshop and my model to re-create the illustration with photos....just an idea for fun, mind you. Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
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