*GASP* Mayweather gets to DO something! And it's marginally COOL story stuff, too! LOTS of tech tonight, and I'll have more than likely missed lots of stuff in this writeup. But for now:
-The show opens with Mayweather reading in his Sweet Spot, not seen since the pilot episode. Oddly, there's a water satchel floating right by him without appearing to be moving. This contrasts the pilot episode, which shows Tucker flip-flopping a bit higher than that. Later on, we also see the Captain flopping over BEFORE pushing off the ladder opening. I guess the grav effect in the Sweet Spot isn't uniform...
-Enterprise heads 30ly closer to home to investigate an anomaly where a rocky planet spinning out of orbit is passing between a pair of gas giants, causing it to superheat. Forrest calls it a "little detour".
-There's a LOT about life on cargo ships here to add to what we've learned in "Fortunate". We start with how lots of people hold multiple jobs on cargo haulers - Mrs. Mayweather is medic and chief engineer, for example. Travis has a relative who had five jobs, only two of which were on the bridge.
-According to Trip, the three greatest horror movies ever made were Frankenstein, Bride of Frankenstein, and Son of Frankenstein. Chef is in charge of movie nights, and he and Trip were assembling this special nightly movie marathon. This forms the B story. which IMO shouldn't have been filmed so we can give Travis more to do. These 39 minute episodes really suck drama time out of the show.
-There's a groaner scene where Mayweather and Reed when the former suggests what a good idea it would be to have families on board. Reed counters that it would drive him nuts, and that if they ever did that they'd better have a psychologist on board. Errgh...
-Timestamp: Jan 10 2153. About time, too. Also, when they arrive at the anomalous planet, Echo 3 isn't too far away for a direct downlink.
-Trip gives Travis some pictures he's taken of their journey. I notice Mayweather standing in front of a pod (probably from "Strange New World") and the convention complex from "Stigma". Any others you can pick out?
-Ahh, the J-class ECS Horizon! It's not the Fortunate, and it's also not the truncated Fortunate-ish ship we saw earlier this season. Instead, we seem to have a "truck and tractor" arrangement where a ship up front tows a string of cargo pods, held together by dorsal and ventral extendo-lattice braces. The nacelles and important stuff are up front in a blocky module. Total length is around the same as Enterprise - I wonder how much cargo they have to haul to actually make a profit...
-She's 50 years old, and the warp core was designed by Zefram himself, according to Trip. It's a legend of some sort that Cochrane would sign each reactor casing built back then, and Trip wanted to see it... Inside, everything is noticably cramped, and looks really worn.
-Right away, we see that when the Horizon goes to warp, there's a noticable lurch - everyone is used to grabbing hold of something when they make the jump. Also, the occasional bump is nothing special.
-The bridge LOOKS like a significant redress of the venerable TOS movie bridge, but I seriously think it's a newbuild. I'll have to take a closer look later. Notably, the helm console is BEHIND the CO chair, which also has a large console. Various wall and free-standing consoles are scattered around the cramped bridge. The helm chair has been seen on Trek for many, many years. Look closely for some "real" windows above and around the forward monitor - a nice touch when she's at warp.
-Travis puts Enterprise at 150ly out, and that they've visited 22 planets in the 18 months they've been going. Anyone want to check that against the episode list?
-Things are not all well aboard the Horizon since Travis' brother took over for their late father. They missed a rendevous with the Orions (!) two weeks ago, and they've been running low on deuterium, dipping into their reserves twice. This suggests that such things are pretty carefully regulated on ships this size, without much room for side trips or emergencies.
-Aliens attack! They also plant a tracking blinko on Horizon along with a dicobalt explosive to discourage anyone from removing it. Another ship, the Constellation (presumably another hauler), reports in to say that they went through the same thing recently, where the beacon attracted a much larger ship that took their cargo. Both Horizon and Constellation are armed with only two plasma cannon turrets, which is not enough.
-Both the smaller and larger ships are reuses of VOY guest ships. Travis identifies the warp engine configuration as similar to a Mazarite ship.
-Going to warp 1.8 while hauling 30,000 tons will cause a notable shake. In order to make it to the better-armed Deneva station ahead of schedule, they consider dumping the cargo and pushing warp 2. Travis also works on pumping impulse power through the plasma cannons to increase their firepower by 80%.
-No one wants to run freight anymore, according to Travis' brother Paul. Instead, people are flocking to the whole exploration thing a la Travis and Roddenberry, causing a labor shortage in the industry.
-When the big bad ship shows up, Horizon jettisons the cargo pods (still held together by the extendo-lattice frame) and immediately becomes a nimble fighter ship, taking out the larger ship in no time at all. Nice FX scenes of this ship the whole way through, by the way. I hope to see more of these J-class cargo haulers in the future.
Mark
[ April 15, 2003, 08:43 PM: Message edited by: Mark Nguyen ]
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
I wonder if it was a little homage to fandom circles that the other ship was named the Constellation, given that a common notion held in those circles is that the Constellation from "The Doomsday Machine" (TOS) was a refitted Horizon-class vessel. (Their explanation for the NCC-1017 registry.)
-MMoM Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote: -Travis puts Enterprise at 150ly out, and that they've visited 22 planets in the 18 months they've been going. Anyone want to check that against the episode list?
Like how specifically do they define a 'visit'? Like actually setting down on the planet or contacting it ooooor just scanning it?
This is probably incomplete but here is a sample of where they have visited:
"Broken Bow": 2 visited : Rigel X and Klingon Homeworld
"The Andorian Incident": P'Jem
"Civilization": Akaali homeworld
"Dear Doctor": Valakis
"Shadow's of P'Jem": Coridan
"Shuttlepod One": Tesnian Homeworld (unseen)
"Oasis": The Oasis Planet
"Detained": Tandaran 'prison camp' Planet
"Fallen Hero": Mazar
"Desert Crossing": Desert Planet
"Two Days and Two Nights": Risa
"Shockwave, Part I": Paraagan II(?) - - - - - -
"A Night In Sickbay": Kreetassan homeworld
"Marauders": 'small mining colony'
"The Seventh": Pernaia
"The Communicator": 'pre-warp alien planet'
"Vanishing Point": 'Alien Planet of the Week'
"Stigma": Dekendi III
"Cease Fire": "Weytahm"/"Paan Mokar"
"Canamar": Enolian homeworld...
"Judgement": Klingon 'colony'
EDIT - Okay...I weeded out a few based on the 'inhabited' reference...so 22 is pretty close...
[ April 15, 2003, 11:41 PM: Message edited by: Futurama Guy ]
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Well, I'll qualify that by adding that he said INHABITED worlds... Dunno how much that helps, though.
Mark
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Even if the Constellation/Horizon thing is a cute reference to the fandom 1017 explanation, it can't be an actual suggestion that NCC-1017 used to be a J class ship early in her life. Too different designs. And I take it there was nothing to indicate that ECS Horizon was the class ship of the J class?
OTOH, this take on J class makes sense in the contex of the other TOS references: Starfleet could very well make use of a ship like this in a training role, sans the cargo pods, while Harry Mudd could use the forward part plus perhaps one set of pods (and perhaps Leo Walsh originally had lots of pods which Mudd then ditched?). It would have been less joyful to see a ship that was way too big for Mudd or too specialized for training duty.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by newark (Member # 888) on :
Does the E.C.S. Horizon have a registry?
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:Even if the Constellation/Horizon thing is a cute reference to the fandom 1017 explanation, it can't be an actual suggestion that NCC-1017 used to be a J class ship early in her life. Too different designs.
I don't think that that was what Mim was implying; however, I'm pretty sure the name-dropping was just a coincidence, and that the writer had no idea about previous Star Trek fandom.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
If it does, it's probably "J-something".
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
The writer is science guy Andre Boramis; this is probably the reason behind all the name dropping and continuity in this episode.
There was no registry for Horizon.
Mark
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
Well, Bormanis is an idiot, anyway.
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
Any sidearms on the Horizon?
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
This episode really seemed to echo "Fortunate Son"...
Now all we need is to see a 'Essex' and a 'Archon'...
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Super Fly Double Post!
[ April 16, 2003, 09:57 PM: Message edited by: Jason Abbadon ]
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I really liked this episode! Mayweather became a real and intresting character for me for the first time and the acting was very good. I really felt for Mayweather when Archer was consoling him in "the sweet spot". The crack on TNG's families on board was great! "They better have a psychaitrist (sp?) on board!" Definitely the one liner of the episode.
[ April 16, 2003, 09:57 PM: Message edited by: Jason Abbadon ]
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy: This episode really seemed to echo "Fortunate Son"...
I thought it was "Fortunate Son"! Having never seen that episode and fallen behind on ENT overall, and catching the episode towards the end, I thought I was watching a rerun.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Yeah, in addition to what I said and the previous message, basically, this could easily have been an alternate version of "Fortunate Son" only with a shorter 'A-plot'...
...they either paralleled each other or totally contrasted each other, off the top of my head, I recall:
talk about how freight industry is threatened by starfleet (moreless).
Starfleets help is ultimately the savior of said freighter.
Nonetheless, despite 'feeling' short...this episode was still pretty good. However, wouldnt you think that after so many years of freight running and the potential threat of 'space pirates' they would eventually spend the extra money to arm their ships better against pirates, as that is, afteral, their only income!
Posted by newark (Member # 888) on :
Can we do a comparison of the E.C.S. Horizon and H.F. Mudd's cargo ship?
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
Believe it or not, the two ships don't look dissimilar, if you take the stance that Harry Mudd's ship was seen only at the rear when viewed on the viewscreen. The shape of the Horizon's cargo pods (when viewed from the rear) make a sort of trapezoidal shape. Mudd's was a bit different, but that could be because of a different type of cargo pod he might have been carrying.
This was taken from the Hyde Park exhibition. Apparently, this design was one of the possible choices for the Y-class Fortunate, which they apparently decided to use later as the Horizon.
[ April 17, 2003, 01:20 PM: Message edited by: Dukhat ]
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Amazing that the freighter moved like a superiority fighter after being relieved of te cargo pods....I thought that was a bit much despite liking the episode. You'd think Mayweather would have told Captain Archer about the pirates and their potential threat: they did kill three people on that other freighter IIRC. Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
You know, knowing Archer he already caught those pirates, but let them go with a stern warning. Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Amazing that the freighter moved like a superiority fighter after being relieved of te cargo pods....I thought that was a bit much despite liking the episode.
The Horizon is basically a tug, which has over-powered engines, to pull all that mass. Just like an 18-wheeler, which has to struggle to pull a full trailer up a slight grade, they can really haull ass with no trailer.
On the other tentical, the Pirate cruiser wasn't expecting anything like that to happen, othewise, they would have been a little harder to disable.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheWoozle: The Horizon is basically a tug, which has over-powered engines, to pull all that mass. Just like an 18-wheeler, which has to struggle to pull a full trailer up a slight grade, they can really haull ass with no trailer.
My neighbour's semi could haul ass with a trailer. Posted by Basill (Member # 161) on :
Long time observer here who rarely posts, but I had to chime in on this episode. Despite any technical/Starfleet procedural flaws, this episode just felt good to me. I wondered if anyone else noticed the copy of The Chicago Mobs Of The Twenties on the bookshelf by Travis's bunk. Someone on another forum I inhabit mentioned it, but my TV resolution wasn't quite clear enough for me to make it out well... This was either a mere tip-of-the-hat nod from behind the scenes, or someone was trying to sneak-force this ship on the audience as "The Horizon" from TOS fame.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote: I wondered if anyone else noticed the copy of The Chicago Mobs Of The Twenties on the bookshelf by Travis's bunk. Someone on another forum I inhabit mentioned it, but my TV resolution wasn't quite clear enough for me to make it out well... This was either a mere tip-of-the-hat nod from behind the scenes, or someone was trying to sneak-force this ship on the audience as "The Horizon" from TOS fame
LOL. Nice one I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be THE Horizon, unless it gets destroyed between now and the end of ENT of course.
It seams quite likely that the Earth Cargo Service will be absorbed into Starfleet with the founding of the Federation, so the Horizon will recieve a USS prefix.
Of course it's just conjecture and we'll never really know either way, but still it's an ammusing thought. Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Damn Mayweathers out screwing up the galaxy again....
...however, I dont see the Horizon getting absorbed into Starfleet...I think it would probably just be another...S.S. Horizon or more like the S.S. Vico or S.S. Odin or S.S. Beagle anyway...
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Yeah. I can't at all see the ECA becoming part of Starfleet. Remember, SF is the military. It would be like the Teamsters being absorbed into the Army. (Now there's a scary thought... ) Or Shell Oil tankers becoming part of the Navy...
-MMoM
P.S.
Besides, the Horizon from "A Piece of the Action" is the one vessel out of the three early SF ships we know of (the others being the Archon and the Essex) that we have a definite, indisputably canon design for. (Whether you want to *call* it the Daedalus Class or not. )
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Well, that's not entirely true. We have a design for a Starfleet ship called "Horizon". But there's nothing saying it has to be the ship from "A Piece of the Action".
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Topher:
quote:Originally posted by TheWoozle: The Horizon is basically a tug, which has over-powered engines, to pull all that mass. Just like an 18-wheeler, which has to struggle to pull a full trailer up a slight grade, they can really haull ass with no trailer.
My neighbour's semi could haul ass with a trailer.
In a straight line, sure. Lets see a semi or tug that's half as agile as that little ship was. Mabye all the ship's RCS thrusters are in the forward section and, with the cargo containers it handles like an old Caddie with front wheel drive....
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kazeite: You know, knowing Archer he already caught those pirates, but let them go with a stern warning.
You know, knowing Archer, those bumpy-headed aliens-of-the-week have already tied him up and given him a good beating 'til he cried like a school girl.
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: Yeah. I can't at all see the ECA becoming part of Starfleet. Remember, SF is the military. It would be like the Teamsters being absorbed into the Army. (Now there's a scary thought... ) Or Shell Oil tankers becoming part of the Navy...
-MMoM
*laughs so hard that he chokes*
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
...and just where the fuck is Porthos? I think he got smart and ran away after they drowned him in sickbay.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Bah, hes just a plot device...like T'pols' hooters Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Episodes are 39 minutes now!?! That's crazy - that's closer to a half-hour show!
Andrew
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Soon it'll just be ten minutes of T'Pol's ass in pajamas. Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Boy, I remember back in the day when TOS was closer to 50 mins...and there was only one Enterprise, and all the boobs were real....
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
"Real" as in enclosed in a wire corset that made them look like torpedos! ....now that science officer from Trials and Tribulations...(drool)
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Ah yes, Deirdre Imershein, shes not too bad.
Actually she played the Risan Joval (the chick playing 'hoverball') in "Captains Holiday" TNG.
She did a lil nudie nudie in the HBO series "Dream On" about 13 years ago. Otherwise she doesn't have a whole lot to her acting credit.
Posted by BJ_O (Member # 858) on :
Did anyone get a good enough look at the Horizon's logo to do a decent sketch of it? I remember it was on the Captain's jacket, in the corridor outside the cargo bay, and on the front of the helm station. That last one was the largest and most easily visible, but the Captain was sitting in front of it most of the time.
B.J.
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: Yeah. I can't at all see the ECA becoming part of Starfleet. Remember, SF is the military. It would be like the Teamsters being absorbed into the Army. (Now there's a scary thought... ) Or Shell Oil tankers becoming part of the Navy...
That's called the Dutch Army IIRC. Bill O'Reilly talked about it on his show a while back, I just can't remember exactly who it was.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Just saw this episode now, because the damn local UPN affiliate decided to preempt the show for something as pointless as a basketball game featuring another Michael Jordan retirement.
Anyway, a few notes that haven't been mentioned yet:
I liked the reference to Deneva station -- the same colony from TOS times, and we know it's going to become the most populous colony.
Myself, I thought that ALL of the Horizon sets were redressed Enterprise scenery -- including the Bridge. (Although the Bridge could've been a rearranged modification of the old Defiant set.)
The aft section of the J-class itself, the modules, strongly reminded me of the aft section of the classic freighter Batris from TNG (sometimes called Antares-class). The TNG ship certainly didn't look separable, though.
The J-class freighter can carry a max of about 30,000 metric tons of cargo.
Were all of the ship's main compartments supposed to be in that small forward section? If so, why was Mayweather fiddling with the impulse engine relays inside a cargo bay? And if they're not, then how did some of the crew feel about being ditched in the immobile cargo modules? (Though I suppose separation could be a reasonably common procedure in an emergency, and they could normally have closed the airlocks between the two anyway when someone's not going between them.)
Good to see they're getting good mileage out of that old Voyager model. It was originally a small Akritiri fighter from "The Chute," and was reused as a large Lokirrim cruiser in "Body and Soul." At least this time they made the obvious connection and suggested that it was a Mazarite-built ship, which was the same species that used that design back in "Fallen Hero."
Overall, I thought this was a pretty good episode!
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: Good to see they're getting good mileage out of that old Voyager model. It was originally a small Akritiri fighter from "The Chute," and was reused as a large Lokirrim cruiser in "Body and Soul." At least this time they made the obvious connection and suggested that it was a Mazarite-built ship, which was the same species that used that design back in "Fallen Hero."
Actually, I think they made a small snafu here in that it was not actually the Mazarites that used this design, but rather the Kriosians in "Precious Cargo." (The Mazarites had their own unique vessels.)
-MMoM Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Ahh, that's right. I knew ENT has used that ship before some time. But then, I've tried to forget about "Precious Cargo." Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Well, they are referring to warp engine configuration, and not ship design.
Mark
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Yes, but I'm just saying that if they wanted to make a neat reference they could/should have said Kriosian instead.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Or mayweather just got them confused with one of the two dozen other "aliens of the week". Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Or mayweather just got them confused with one of the two dozen other "aliens of the week".
That's certainly understandable. After all, if someone randomly tuned in for one episode, they'd probably think Mayweather was a "crewman of the week." Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy: Boy, I remember back in the day when TOS was closer to 50 mins...and there was only one Enterprise, and all the boobs were real....
Kirk's weren't.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy: Ah yes, Deirdre Imershein, shes not too bad.
Actually she played the Risan Joval (the chick playing 'hoverball') in "Captains Holiday" TNG.
She did a lil nudie nudie in the HBO series "Dream On" about 13 years ago. Otherwise she doesn't have a whole lot to her acting credit.
All the hotties were naked on that damn show! Catherine Bell (of JAG fame) was too! Gotta check on that show's DVD availability....
Posted by Fleet-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
I just saw the episode myself... and the bridge is the fold and hold Defiant bridge with a smaller screen from the TNG Battle Bridge set. The rest of the ship does seem like the NX-01 redress sets except that cargo module which reminds me of the shuttlebay for the NX-01 with wall paneling.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:Yeah. I can't at all see the ECA becoming part of Starfleet. Remember, SF is the military. It would be like...Shell Oil tankers becoming part of the Navy...
But that's not an apt comparison. The U.S. Navy has more than enough ships in its fleet that it will never need to draft civilian ships into military service.
Now look at the Earth Starfleet of the 2150's. Not really much of a "Star Fleet" at all. They have very few ships, and the ECA has been around far longer than they have, with presumably many more vessels. Take Paul's quote that no one wants to run freight anymore, and the reference in "Fortunate Son" that frieghters will soon be receiving warp 5 engine upgrades. Presumably this means that there will be perfectly good (albeit old) freight vessels that no one is using for freight runs. I find it perfectly logical that the Federation Starfleet could have inducted these vessels into service as refitted front-line explorers such as the TOS Horizon, Archon, etc., or at the least, the Mayweathers could have sold their ship to Starfleet.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
I missed the shot of The Book in the episode... since I didn't notice it, I assume that it wasn't all that big. The one in TOS, however, was *really* big. Therefore I think it should be treated as a winking in-joke rather than a suggestion that the ECS Horizon is the ship that's going to visit Sigma Iotia II.
(And don't suggest that The Book we saw in TOS was just an Iotian copy... the way they treated it, it sure as hell seemed like the original to me. I'm willing to bend some assumptions to explain some things for ENT, but I'm not gonna redefine everything!)
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dukhat: The U.S. Navy has more than enough ships in its fleet that it will never need to draft civilian ships into military service.
Now look at the Earth Starfleet of the 2150's. Not really much of a "Star Fleet" at all. They have very few ships, and the ECA has been around far longer than they have, with presumably many more vessels. Take Paul's quote that no one wants to run freight anymore, and the reference in "Fortunate Son" that frieghters will soon be receiving warp 5 engine upgrades. Presumably this means that there will be perfectly good (albeit old) freight vessels that no one is using for freight runs. I find it perfectly logical that the Federation Starfleet could have inducted these vessels into service as refitted front-line explorers such as the TOS Horizon, Archon, etc., or at the least, the Mayweathers could have sold their ship to Starfleet.
I don't. There is really no point in conscripting a bunch of 50+ year old freighters into the Federations' Star Fleet, considering that the Vulcans and Andorians presumably have scores of more powerful and valuable starships that would probably make up the bulk of the Federations' Star Fleet during its onset. It would seem to make much more sense to integrate those into the new Star Fleet looong before the antiquated ships of the ECA....
Consider: Upon the sharing of technology, and "catching Earth up" technologically, the decision was probably made to make the entire Star Fleet vessel design patterned after Earth vessels (evidence: every Federation starship we have ever seen). Once the Vulcan and Andorian designs became outdate and were phased out of the military....the "new" Federation designs (e.g. Constitution Class), patterned after the "old" Earth designs, would become the backbone of Star Fleet, and the Vulcans and Andorians would conform to this new design as well, as far as their military vessels go (evidence: USS Intrepid, USS T'Kumbra, semi-USS Hera)....this too, would involve crew integrations aboard various ships as well
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I don't buy that at all. For all we know the Miranda class could have been a traditional Telerite configuration and the Connie may be of Andorian ancestry (or mabye the brainchild of one visionary). It most likely that the Federation uses the best components of various member races to build the first Federation starships and then heavily integrated races when assigning design teams to maximize creative ideas and not exclude anyone.
While not canon, the FASA designs have several Andorian themed ships (nacelles grouped together and partially shielded bt superstructure was their hallmark).
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Of course, this ignores the fact that the producers haven't really given any thought to the forming of the Federation Starfleet. They might even assume that both Starfleets are the same Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Based on what we have seen over the years and the fact that the Vulcans and Andorians DO have ships and the fact that Starfleet IS going to be formed - either from the Earth Starfleet taken over under the auspices of the Federation or something from scratch; I see no other options with what the first Fed. Starfleet would be comprised of. Pooling of resources seems to make the most sense in the forming of the Federations' military and I still see nothing else said that makes any more sense from the information that has been presented here.
Earth Starfleet + Vulcan 'military' + Andorian Guard + other Allies = Federation/Star Fleet = All Earth + Vulcan + Andorian + Tellerite (et al) Resources (including Starships and Bases).
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Logistically, it could make sense to draft some civilian vessels to UFP SF service. Even the USN sometimes does that, when it runs short of prepositioning ships, tankers and assorted tugs.
OTOH, *politically* it might be necessary to ignore even the logistically vital Vulcan and Andorian superior starships and go for an all-Earth arsenal in the early days of the UFP SF. Perhaps the Federation is formed when the Earthlings force a peace upon the warring Vulcans and Andorians?
And it is possible to conjure up a situation where Vulcan and Andorian designs aren't logistically the preferable ones. Perhaps those two races are slow to catch up with escalation in the Romulan war, and/or have their existing fleets decimated in the conflict. Rather than endure the nightmare of producing three different sets of spares, fuel, munitions etc, the Axis of Good in that war could go for a fleet that relies solely on the hardware of the most aggressively escalating participant. In this case, the Earthlings. Post-war, this simplified logistic chain is retained, and superior Vulcan designs go by the wayside (much like happened to lots of Russian hardware after the cold war).
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
In order to make it to the better-armed Deneva station ahead of schedule, they consider dumping the cargo and pushing warp 2. Travis also works on pumping impulse power through the plasma cannons to increase their firepower by 80%.![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
) Or Shell Oil tankers becoming part of the Navy...![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)