A fairly engaging epsiode on the dramatic front, though most of the tech is on the alien's side - and not likely to be touched on again. Ah well... It's enough that we get a Trip Screws Up episode.
-We open with Enterprise studying a "hypergiant", which I presume to be a really really big star. T'pol notes that the star is losing mass at a really fast rate, and will go boom in 100-200 years. For some reason, I'm made to think of the TNG episode with Lwaxana and that guy from M*A*S*H.
-T'pol also says that she may very wll be around when the hypergiant pops.
-"Astrometrics" is mentioned. Has it been before?
-When G'Kar/Tomalak's ship shows up and asks where Enterprise is from, Archer pulls a first and says they're from the Sol system. Unto the present, they've always said they're from Earth, no?
-The aliens this week, Vissians, have a lot of neat tech allowing them to study stars a helluva lot closer than our heroes. They've been a warp-capable species for about a thousand years, but don't seem to have much desire to stray too far from home (25ly away) despite being explorers. Their ship is larger than Enterprise and bullet-shaped, not unlike the Cardassian dreadnought.
-Fun with multigender species: Rigellians may have four or five sexes. Phlox speculates that the cogenitor gender in this case provides a facilitating enzyme-- and is interrupted by an uncomfy Trip, who's just happy to recieve an innoculation against omicron radiation, which will last him 12 years. T'pol says that tri-gender species are not uncommon.
-The alien ship doesn't need magnetic confinement for their mostly-CGI engine room.
-G'karmalok and Archer take a trip into the star's chronosphere in a nifty little "stratopod". Note that no metaphasics are involved; it's all because of their trinesium hull material. The pod set is that of the Enterprise inspection pod, flipped around and with the usual coverup greeblies applied.
-Archer and G'karmalok take off on a three-day study of the star, which is the B-plot of the episode. The star's photosphere is conveniently blue to reinforce the whole Jaques Cousteau feeling of the plot. Doesn't make much sense, but it looks a lot like various false-colour images we've seen from NASA.
-In an attempt to get laid, Reed puts together a selection of cheese and fruit to impress their female tactical officer who told him that human food smells pretty bland. They've been in space for two years now... How likely is it that they'll still have fresh fruit in storage? They have a "protein sequencer", but how far is it from the familiar replicator? Can they replicate fruit in its entirety?
-To provide the principal plot, Trip decides to teach the cogenitor how to read. To do so, he uses a PADD (or whatever it is) that's like a Speak'n'Spell. Oddly, it's ready to teach the cogenitor its own language...
-The aliens are surprised that Enterprise doesn't use "photonic" technology in their torpedoes - and Reed forgets again that he's run into that before. He manages to tell us that the phase pistols are charged by sarium microcells, but not much else as he finally gets his wish with the tactical babe - in the phase cannon storage well, no less!
-Trip's education of the cogenitor includes a tour of Enterprise, including the transporter bay (which we've not seen for a while) and the engine room, where Trip drops their maximum achieved speed of warp 5.1 from last year.
-Movie of the week: "The Day the Earth Stood Still". Klaatu barada nikto!
-Porthos!
Mark
Posted by Ryan McReynolds (Member # 28) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: The star's photosphere is conveniently blue to reinforce the whole Jaques Cousteau feeling of the plot. Doesn't make much sense, but it looks a lot like various false-colour images we've seen from NASA.
Why is a blue photosphere unusual on a massive star?
quote: Movie of the week: "The Day the Earth Stood Still". Klaatu barada nikto!
Still one of my all-time favorites.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: -Fun with multigender species: Rigellians may have four or five sexes. Phlox speculates that the cogenitor gender in this case provides a facilitating enzyme-- and is interrupted by an uncomfy Trip, who's just happy to recieve an innoculation against omicron radiation, which will last him 12 years. T'pol says that tri-gender species are not uncommon.
This + pregnant Trip from S1 = "Alien Nation" seroes viewing marathons in the writer's ghetto.
Posted by Marc Xavier (Member # 1008) on :
quote:-In an attempt to get laid, Reed puts together a selection of cheese and fruit to impress their female tactical officer who told him that human food smells pretty bland. They've been in space for two years now... How likely is it that they'll still have fresh fruit in storage? They have a "protein sequencer", but how far is it from the familiar replicator? Can they replicate fruit in its entirety?
Why just not grow it in a greenhouse?
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
I'm sure that technology exists to keep the fruit in some sort of stasis. "Now, Carl, when you mop the walk-in, don't forget to plug the Officers' Fruit Stasis machine back in."
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
quote:-"Astrometrics" is mentioned. Has it been before?
In the pilot they mentioned the Astrometrics Computer in San Fransisco. But there might be an Astrometrics lab on Earth ships as well.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
because astrometrics is _so very_ different from stellar cartography
Posted by Cartmaniac (Member # 256) on :
"Why is a blue photosphere unusual on a massive star?"
Because giant stars are normally red?
"-The aliens are surprised that Enterprise doesn't use "photonic" technology in their torpedoes - and Reed forgets again that he's run into that before."
Refresh my memory... how exactly do photons tie into a M/AM warhead?
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Noone has ever bothered to explain that. And that's because when they were invented for TOS, it wasn't a M/AM warhead, but ehm.. a photon torpedo. Hence the VFX of brightly colored bolts.
Perhaps.
Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
quote:Originally posted by Harry: Noone has ever bothered to explain that. And that's because when they were invented for TOS, it wasn't a M/AM warhead, but ehm.. a photon torpedo. Hence the VFX of brightly colored bolts.
Perhaps.
Erm, which member of the production staff thought that hitting an enemy ship with a not-so-blinding flash of light would be a viable tactical option? Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
If I recall my astronomy class correctly, a star's color and its size are not on a one-to-one basis. I think large, blue stars tend to be short-lived. Isn't Altair one?
Posted by Cartmaniac (Member # 256) on :
Yeah, hotter stars are bluer, while cooler stars tend to be redder... Altair is a white-blueish A7 IIRC, bright & massive.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Correct on all counts. However, this "hypergiant" was red on the outside, but descending to the lower layers made it turn a cool blue. All of which is moot anyway, as ALL stars are REALLY REALLY BRIGHT when you get close to 'em! I suppose the stratopod could have been using filters or whatever on its CANOPY, but it all had this "let's go explore the coral reefs" feeling to it that was pretty silly, riding "waves" and "currents" of solar ejecta and such.
For reference: our sun's "surface" temperature is about 6000 degrees celsius. The Vissians can take 18,000, and more in the pod. Blue giants and supergiants can be much, much hotter...
Mark
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Referencing the Sol System isn't new. Archer explained that he usually did business in the Sol System in "Canamar".
Posted by Ryan McReynolds (Member # 28) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: However, this "hypergiant" was red on the outside, but descending to the lower layers made it turn a cool blue.
Then, yes, that is silly. Not to mention that in this context, the photosphere is the outside. Incidentally, the corona is far hotter than the photosphere...
Posted by Captain39 (Member # 1001) on :
From the New York State Education Department: As a star increases in both temperature, size, and luminosity( the brightnes of stars compared to the brightness of our sun) the general trend is from the small and cooler red dwarfs to the large and hot blue supergiants. The two exceptions being red giants, which are cooler and smaller than blue supergiants and white dwarfs which are larger and a higher temperature than red dwarfs. Hope that helps Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
I'd like to point out that this episode should probably mark the final disspelling of the fandom (as well as authorized non-canon, I think) conceit that Andorians have more than two sexes. If they did, I'm sure either Phlox or T'Pol would have mentioned it.
-MMoM Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
Well it was mentioned in "Data's Day" that the Andorians marry in groups of four... Why would they do that if they didn't have four sexes?
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Whats wrong with having group weddings? Maybe they are into that kinky orgy wife swapping scene..... Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Topher: Well it was mentioned in "Data's Day" that the Andorians marry in groups of four... Why would they do that if they didn't have four sexes?
Why not? With all the diverse cultures in the galaxy, why would you assume that the all share the same marriage customs as Earth? Why shouldn't there be races who marry in fours rather than in twos?
The Denobulans marry in groups, but so far as we know they only have two sexes...
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
well its equally possible that Andorians have two sexes, but each of their children requires four parents genetically..
i believe the DS9 relaunch novels took a four sex tack when they introduced Shar ch'Thane, having him be one component of a four-sex four-person marriage group (which, as the novels reveal, is absolutely necessary to create an offspring) but later toned it down to the existence of four mates, two who were predominantly male and two who were predominantly female (although they still keep their exact sexual identity vague.. to preserve the illusion of an alien reproduction).. the later version is less confusing to readers who would have a hard time accepting the existence of a sex that was neither male nor female.. i'm eager to see how ENT deals with the shock factor, although their take on sex has already been established on thriving on shock value and not focusing on story content
BTW, how does an episode that doesnt feature andorians in any way shape or form prove anything about them.. if t'pol says multigender species are kinda common then there isnt much reason to wonder why she didnt bring up the specific case of the andorians..
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
(I didn't see this episode yet, ironically because I was at the Mount Cuba Observatory for my Astronomy class on Wednesday night...)
(Also, I apologize in advance for this long rambling post on the minutiae of contemporary astronomical theories. My excuse is that I'm currently taking a university course, Intro to Astronomy, and so I've got a bit more of the technical knowledge that I -- perhaps stupidly -- expect people writing science fiction stories would know something about.)
I'll have to reserve final judgement for after I actually see the episode, but it sounds like the astronomy in this episode is a big load of bullshit. Why is it that Braga and his writers must fulfill their urge to have mega-everything?
In astronomy, there's already the stellar classification of "supergiant," which applies to stars which are calculated to have a radius of up to 100 times that of Sol. They're not always that size -- they expand to that towards the ends of their lives, as well.
Then there's the overlooked fact that the solar corona itself is actually about 1 million degrees Kelvin (or at least for our sun). According to my textbook, a hypothetical spaceship entering the corona wouldn't actually feel that much heat because of the extremely low density of this part of a star's atmosphere. Nevertheless, if these aliens (and the later Humans in TNG) are measuring solely based on temperature, then they're in big trouble.
Of course, this temperature problem is compounded by the fact that the extremely large stars -- type O, generally, which are considered blue in color and are also usually the largest (excepting red giants) have a surface temperature in excess of 30,000 degrees Kelvin.
If anyone's interested, I've got a copy of the Hertzsprung-Russell Diagram that's used in my textbook. According to this, even the supergiants can grow to 103 times the radius of the Sun... although these would also have drastically cooled down due to the laws of physics. A supergiant that would still be considered "blue" according to this diagram would have a radius of about 100 times that of the Sun.
And these stars are those that have between 10 and 100 times the MASS of the Sun, too... frankly, I'm not too sure that a "hypergiant" category of stars is even literally possible!
The only (well-known) star that I could think of is Betelgeuse (in Orion), which is a variable red giant and is calculated to have a diameter that goes between 550 and 920 times Sol's radius. However, this star is "only" a red giant, because according to the laws of physics, any star that inflates its radius to such an incredible size will also cool down because of its lower density.
I'd probably ramble on some more, but I have to leave to go to class in a few minutes. Suffice to say, I don't buy this "hypergiant" concept for a single second. I think it's just a symptom of Mr. Braga looking for some kind of "bigger and better" concept of astronomy that'll be "kewl" for the show.
*sigh* I know that science is unfortunately not the highest priority in any television show... but you'd think that with a NASA-credited science advisor on their staff, they'd have the good sense to listen to him from time to time.
Oh, well. Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote: Originally posted by CaptainMike: BTW, how does an episode that doesnt feature andorians in any way shape or form prove anything about them.. if t'pol says multigender species are kinda common then there isnt much reason to wonder why she didnt bring up the specific case of the andorians..
I think MMoM pretty much explained it when he first brought it up.
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
I forget where I read it, but I seem to recall that three-sex biology (flowers, in the real world, I think) have the the female and male contribute their bit to the catalyst, which produces the seed.
I can see three ways that what we say in the show, would work. 1) The male and progenetor both contribute something to the female, to make her pregnant
2) The male fertalizes the progenetor, which then implants the egg into the female (Plox has pictures!)
3) The male copulates with the progenetor, which THEN makes him fertal, so he can copulate with the female and impregnate her. This would also explain the culture's blaze' attitude to sex in general.
#3 would also help explain 4+ sex species. A Male might need to get-it-on with multiple partners before he is fertal.
On the other tentical, even Humans sometimes need the male to be turned-on be a pretty girl, before he can 'perform' for his boring wife.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
fertile.. fertilize.. progenitor.. tentacle
Posted by Treknophyle (Member # 509) on :
If memory serves, Phlox's species has only two sexes - yet his 'family unit' is comprised of more than a couple.
Thus, the Andorian's twin-couple family unit may have nothing to do with the number of genders, but be purely socialogical.
BTW: I can think of an excellent (from their point of view) reason why progenitor's have been denied their 'rights'. Were they ever to achieve social equality (full sentient rights and education) - the species would end up with a 3% minority utterly controlling the procreation of their species - they would become the ultimate ruling class.
Much like women today...
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
The cogenitor may prepare the egg for fertilization by it's enzyme disolving some kind of protective sheath around the egg and preping it for fertilization.
In the New Frontier books the first officer is hermafrodotic and is able to gve birth and use it's winky!
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
(Just finished watching the second-run of this ep...)
Mark, I can't believe you forgot the tidbit about their transporter range! Trip said that they only could beam someone up to 2,000 kilometers away from the ship.
Other notes...
-- The Vissians have discovered over 200 naturally occurring elements. Good continuity with Voyager, I admit, but I'm wondering if that's physically possible.
-- The NX-01's phase cannons each have an output of 80 gigajoules.
And now for the big part: it appears that my long rant on false astronomy was completely unjustified. Hypergiants are real!
I'm still reading some other links I found via Google to figure out some of the real-life properties that scientists have observed and calculated, but I'll be damned... from what I've read so far, it seems like they actually got the science RIGHT! A hypergiant is basically a star that periodically ejects incredible amounts of gas into space, forming a circumstellar gas cloud -- basically a big dusty sheath around the star, exactly like we saw in this episode! The hypergiant referenced in the linked article was said to originally be a type-F star, and became a type-M. So it seems that my comments on the mass of a star and its color may not apply, either.
Yeesh, how embarrassing... Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Okay, more interesting stuff... it seems that in a way, I wasn't wrong in my original argument -- hypergiants are NOT supposed to be plain, simple, larger versions of supergiant stars. Instead, they're a subset of supergiants, more specifically VARIABLE supergiants.
Here's a couple of quotes from the introduction of an astrophysics paper I found via Google:
quote:"Cool hypergiants (Ia+ or Ia0) are a class of supergiant stars with Teff below ~10,000 K. They are physically different from supergiants of luminosity class Ia. The usual Ia+ designation does not mean that they are always more luminous than the former, but they differ in their spectral properties.
[...]
rho Cassiopeiae and HR 8752 are the prototype objects of the yellow hypergiants (F-G Ia+) They are among the most massive (20-40 MSol) cool stars presently known.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horation, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." How appropriate that they used that quote here, even if Star Trek quoting Shakespeare is such an old cliche? Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
Perhaps he is also talking about subspace elements like dilithium and the components of verterium cornide.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Three additional notes upon a rewatch:
-The Vissians apparently use knives and forks.
-A meeting in the episode occurs in a ward room of sorts. It's the mess hall set, with monitors on one wall and a large conference table in the middle. Have we seen this one before?
-So, cogenitors make up about 3% of the Vissian population. It's probably a cultural thing, but with humans, people tend to get attched to their kids regardless of gender. Are Vissian parents not miffed when they have a cogenitor and it's taken away from them?
Mark
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: -A meeting in the episode occurs in a ward room of sorts. It's the mess hall set, with monitors on one wall and a large conference table in the middle. Have we seen this one before? Mark
Wasn't this the same room from "Precious Cargo" where T'Pol was acting like some judge in her robe threatening this guy that if he doesnt help them locate that freighter....anyway, that room??
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: -So, cogenitors make up about 3% of the Vissian population. It's probably a cultural thing, but with humans, people tend to get attched to their kids regardless of gender. Are Vissian parents not miffed when they have a cogenitor and it's taken away from them?
Mark
Maybe they are rewarded or compensated for providing such a 'resource' to their culture. They probably don't allow themselves or are discouraged from attaching themselves to 'it'.
Kinda makes ya wonder what kind of hardware the Cogenitors are sportin'.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
God, no.
The room is *not* the one in "Precious Cargo". I distictly remember in that epsiode that they had the mess hall's backlit cupboards and such on the wall in question. For all intents and purposes, it *was* the mess hall, with the furniture removed.
This one has a distictly different wall, with the large and small LCD screens borrowed from the bridge set. The remaining walls are definitely from the mess hall set. Personally, I hope they don't use this often - they may have had such a room in all the other series, but I like that they generally use the situation area at the back of the bridge. Keeps everything smallish
Mark <--- looking forward to changes next year
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
Yeah, definitely a location on the ship we haven't seen before, though whether it's a new set or not is a little unclear.
I'm partial to the situation room, myself, but I get the sense there's a fair number of scenes that can't logically be held there, so a bigger belowdecks ward room only makes storytelling sense to complement, not replace it. Makes Trek sense, too... one assumes they hold staff meetings with more than six participants on a frequent basis.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Yeah - but if they do, then who's running the ship?
Mark
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Chef Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Er, surely this "conference room" is the same place Shran and Soval and Archer sat down to chat at the end of "Cease Fire," no?
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
Fine then... it was a location on the ship I had never seen before.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
1.) I am not certain. Such was just my assumption, is all.
2.) It is like an episode written with Tom in mind! Sort of.
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Trip said that they only could beam someone up to 2,000 kilometers away from the ship.![[Eek!]](eek.gif)