I'll open by answering the prime question - and the answer is no. Everything *can* fit into the established continuity with enough explanation, most of which we've speculated away already. The whole episode is basically an exercise in what could happen if a couple Borg drones, with limited resources and surrounded by inferior technology, would do. I think they did a fair job... The other purpose of the episode is to theorhetically give a little conclusion to the whole Borg story by looping it back on itself, giving a reason for the Borg to be all the way over here in the 24th century in the first place. People will be talking about this one for a LONG time.
-Timestamp: March 1, 2153 at the end of the show.
-The episode starts in the Arctic Circle with a nifty hovercraft / ship floating over the frozen wasteland. This is odd, as the Arctic is typically very flat, due to the fact there's nothing but ice there - ice which should have buried the Borg debris field the scientists find. Anyway, I wish I had one of those little ships. They're cool. At least in the first act.
-The three scientists we see have two very distinct patches on their parka sleeves. Anyone make any of that out? The scientists also use Starfleet-standard communicators and plasma rifles. They apparently belong to the Earth Science Council, which we've heard of before.
-The Borg debris field is kinda obvious, no? There's wreckage and stuff strewn over a fairly large area... I'm somewhat surprised that something like that wasn't visible from space a whole lot earlier than this.
-The scientists apparently liase with Commander Williams back at Starfleet.
-Vulcan prothesis kick ass over human equivalents, but both are trounced by the Borg. Duh. And the Denobulans have tried experimenting with nanotech, which doesn't figure in later. Good thing the scientists didn't have a chance to make an official report, or send much beyond a bunch of pictures back to Starfleet.
-Borg sphere = 600 meters in diameter, according to the curvature of the wreckage. Have at it, size boys!
-The two drones the scientists recover expectedly awaken and assimilate the scientists, their nifty ship, and the (trans?)warp coil one of them found just before the carnage begins. When contact is lost, Admiral Forrest, Commander Williams and a security use a Fleet shuttle (with blue stripes) to get there. Look for another patch on their parkas.
-The nifty ship is capable of Warp 1.4. The Borg reconfigure it to 3.9, later 4.8 and 4.98. Incidentally, this is the first indication of atmospheric, warp-capable Earth ships in this era... Anyway, at that speed it is quickly able to zip out to the vicinity of Enterprise. 29 drones are aboard by the final confrontation. The ship becomes progressively more borgified as the episode prgresses.
-While they certainly don't look it, I'm under the impression that the Borg in this episode are significantly weakened as a result of what little they had to begin with. This is a train of thought reinforced by evidence throughout the show.
-Name-dropping: The Bynars, from the Beta Magellan system! Phlox once saw a newborn get its parietal lobe replaced with a synaptic processor.
-The borgified ship is soon spotted cutting open a Tarkalean transport with a proton beam. Luckily, Enterprise is able to disable the weapons, but the transport warps away. The crew rescues two Tarkaleans, slowly being assimilated via nanoprobes...
-Archer is bugged by the whole thing. And then he remembers an address Cochrane made once at Princeton, where he revealed the "real" story of First Contact as it occured in the movie, and not the original history. It was not really believed, and Cochrane recanted the story several years later. Interesting!
-The assimilation process here is rather different than what we've seen before... It's more gradual and slower, a reasonable reflection of Borg interfacing with primitive technology with limited means. The waking Tarkaleans are still themselves, at least for a few moments, before they go nuts with the typical Borg Attitude. Upon escaping, one of them infects Phlox.
-The Tarkaleans quickly set about assimilating the ship through familiar means - replacing displays with Borg circuitry, bits of Borg nodes, etc.. When Reed and his security team can't stop them (stun doesn't work as usual, but by the time they go to max setting even a phase pistol and two rifles in concert can't stop 'em) they evac the section and blow the drones into space thrugh a dorsal maintenance hatch. Of course, they leave 'em behind to pursue the ship. Duh.
-The rifles really seem to have been upgraded to phase equivalents - one is seen used by the Arctic scientists on Earth, and it uses the familiar pulse fire. Interestingly, of the two rifles in the security team, only one has a sight of some sort.
-Phlox races to cure himself of the nanos that are making him all splotchy and pale, and that make him hear voices in his head. Omicron particles slow them, but he's not confident he'll be able to do anything.
-Reed races to modify their phase weapons to overpower the Borg shields. He thinks he has the answer, doubling the firepower (to ten megajoules) while creating a recharge period. It's surprisingly effective, allowing them to kill numerous drones before they adapt.
-The Borg ship attacks Enterprise with familiar pulse weapons, and trigger the Borg circuitry on our heroes' ship, disabling them. In response, Archer and Reed beam aboard to plant explosives, even as the Borg continue to pound them and even board them. Archer and Reed discover that the inside of the transport has been thoroughly assimilated, giving us a plethora of re-used Borg props to see. In the ensuing combat, they even go hand to hand and manage to defeat a drone by tearing out several hoses (a move obviously borrowed from Picard's riprest in TNG "Descent II").
-The explosives they plant on the EPS manifold manage to disable the transport somewhat, causing the boarders to be recalled. In the meantime, Trip manages to strip enough Borg parts out of the Jeffries tubes to get weapons back, and they destroy the regenerating transport with a salvo of torpedoes form the aft launchers. They can fire four torpedoes in less than a second - a previously unseen rate of fire.
-The wreckage, of course, they leave behind. Duh. And most uncharacteristically, the Borg never once say their classic "We are the Borg". Damned UT.
-Phlox is cured, during which process we see the inside of the medical chamber for the first time. Anyway, while infected he caught a series of numbers which were being transmitted by the local Borg group consciousness - coordinates being sent back to the Delta Quadrant. T'Pol concludes that it'd take 200 years for the message to get there - postponing any response until at least the 24th century, if it even managed to arrive.
-Causal loop complete?
Mark
[ May 06, 2003, 09:09 PM: Message edited by: Mark Nguyen ]
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
I *know* I'm going to get smacked for this, but...
This is a pretty clever story, if you ask me. It brings a nice sort of finish to the whole Borg thing and, damn it all, I like it!
So there!
-MMoM Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
*smack*
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
So here we have the beginnings to the 'classic' ... "we're the only ship in the quadrant" scenario ... I'm beginning to wonder where the hell the rest of Star Fleet is ...
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Even if they had sixteen dreadnoughts hovering over the Arctic, how could they give chase to a warp 4 fugitive?
Incidentally, this *was* the Arctic circle explicitly, wasn't it? Not the low-rainfall continental Antarctic which would be a plausible location for such a debris field? Well, there's plenty of land on the Arctic circle, of course - the debris could have melted through 21st century ice onto solid rock, and only surfaced when 22nd century climate removed that ice.
Is the blue-striped shuttle the same design as the NX-01 shuttlepods?
How does Phlox finally de-borgify himself?
How can T'Pol tell where the message was aimed? I mean, distance-wise? Couldn't she have thought it was intended for a star system mere 1500 ly out - or for another galaxy entirely?
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Althought I have not viewed this episode...yet...this:
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: The nifty ship is capable of Warp 1.4.
...would seem to answer this:
quote:Originally posted by Timo: Even if they had sixteen dreadnoughts hovering over the Arctic, how could they give chase to a warp 4 fugitive?
...this means, that at least initially, any old - warp 2 - or whatever the norm is at the time - starship could have caught this ship as it was leaving Earth, therefore an easy catch for "sixteen dreadnoughts hovering over the Arctic"...
...So again, I do not understand why Enterprise so happens to be the only ship 'in the neighborhood'.
...One would think that Earth would have one or two capable ships nearby that could have done the job, OR, for that matter, an even far superior Vulcan starship nearby to stop it...
...I realize, for the sake of writing an episode and using the hired work in said episode, it is almost required to have Enterprise be the one that comes to the rescue; it does, however, make one wonder about the effectiveness of Star Fleet or the Vulcan Fleet, when the first Allied ship the Borg engage is also the furthest SF ship from Earth...
...leaving the original question I posed:
quote:Originally posted by ME : I'm beginning to wonder where the hell the rest of Star Fleet is...
...unless this is some indication as to why Earth gets its ass reamed in the upcoming weeks... Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
quote:Originally posted by Timo: How does Phlox finally de-borgify himself?
Obviously using a technique which he never wrote down, judging by Starfleet doctors in the 24th century. Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
These plasma rifles, did they have the grease-gun barrel or the over-under double barrel?
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
-Grease gun, I think.
-The ship left the Sol system at Warp 3.9. The Borg had wisely upgraded the engines before they left. The point was that the ship was *supposed* to have a top speed of 1.4. Beats me why a Vulcan ship couldn't be tapped to stop it.
-Phlox's treatment involves a thorough bombardment of omicron particles to kill the nanoprobes. He mentioned nasty side-effects, though by the end Archer logs that Phlox is expected to make a full recovery.
-The Fleet shuttle is of the NX-01 design, with teh aforementioned blue piping. The security team aboard has phase pistols, too.
Mark
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: -The ship left the Sol system at Warp 3.9. The Borg had wisely upgraded the engines before they left. The point was that the ship was *supposed* to have a top speed of 1.4. Beats me why a Vulcan ship couldn't be tapped to stop it.
Perhaps the Vulcans weren't *interested* in playing interstellar highway patrol for SF.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: Perhaps the Vulcans weren't *interested* in playing interstellar highway patrol for SF.
Well it involves alien technology on Earth that is apparently quite advanced and powerful, seems the Vulcans would react similarily to the "Broken Bow" scenario, especially considering it was something even they haven't encountered...
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: -The ship left the Sol system at Warp 3.9. The Borg had wisely upgraded the engines before they left. The point was that the ship was *supposed* to have a top speed of 1.4. Beats me why a Vulcan ship couldn't be tapped to stop it.
I'm not questioning you, but just the sanity of the writers...but how would the Borg have wisely known that warp 3.9 would have gotten them into the clear? Seems rather convienient...unless they had their Earth history books and chronometers set to the right date to know that they would be fast enough to actually get out of the system unchallenged...either way, it seems rather silly that all of the convienent threads they pull to make it the Enterprise saves the day scenario...
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy: ...either way, it seems rather silly that all of the convienent threads they pull to make it the Enterprise saves the day scenario...
*sigh* Remember Star Trek: The Motion Picture? Or the other countless occasions where the Enterprise was the "only ship in the sector/quadrant/area/budget"?
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by David Templar: sigh* Remember Star Trek: The Motion Picture? Or the other countless occasions where the Enterprise was the "only ship in the sector/quadrant/area/budget"?
Note
Actually, I think I said something like that in the beginning of my theory: So here we have the beginnings to the 'classic' ... "we're the only ship in the quadrant" scenario ... I'm beginning to wonder where the hell the rest of Star Fleet is ...
Suggesting that Enterprise is not only prequaling the rest of Star Trek, but that whole *magnetism to danger* ships with that name seem to attract...
Posted by Ryan McReynolds (Member # 28) on :
quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy: Suggesting that Enterprise is not only prequaling the rest of Star Trek, but that whole *magnetism to danger* ships with that name seem to attract...
Boy, I sure do wish the series was subtitled Enterprise: Just Another Ship and every time something interesting came up we'd get forty minutes of Archer reading about some other crew's adventures on a padd.
Seriously, though, Starfleet seems to have been almost exclusively exploratory before "Broken Bow." It's not impossible that they might have as few as twenty or thirty starships total, puttering around at warp 2.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ryan McReynolds: Seriously, though, Starfleet seems to have been almost exclusively exploratory before "Broken Bow." It's not impossible that they might have as few as twenty or thirty starships total, puttering around at warp 2.
I would have to say that that seems likely. Too bad, though, as I always rather liked the idea that there were primitive space navies by the time of World War III. Doesn't seem realistic, though, given what we've seen...
Posted by Cartmaniac (Member # 256) on :
You can't get a lot of exploring done at warp two, so most (if not all) ships SF has are probably relegated to scouting Earth's galactic backyard... eveeer sooo slooowly.
Posted by Ryan McReynolds (Member # 28) on :
Realistically, it would take decades to really survey even one system, even with TNG-level sensor equipment. We've lived on Earth for millennia and still discover new things all the time. The first new family of insect in a century was discovered just last year. Even Alpha Centauri might still be a great place to do that kind of science at the time of Enterprise. With warp 2 ships that made it out to a handful of systems, there is a lot to do, especially if Enterprise as a real ship of exploration is the first of it's kind. Oberth-equivalents probably abound.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
When you put it that way, it really does make what Enterprise is out and about doing seem pointless. I suppose you could classify it as a "scout", as it doesn't really seem to spend too much time at one place:
It only briefly encounters new species, versus sticking around or employing crew members for cultural exchanges;
It only stops to explore big, obvious, or out-of-the-norm phenomenons like uber-giant stars, uber-giant asteroids, nebulae, and ships in distress;
There is no planned direction to its mission, its just out in space, aimlessly zooming around wasting tax-payers money and making new enemies for Earth...
So based on this, what good could warp 2 SF vessels really be? freighters? Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:... Anyway, at that speed it is quickly able to zip out to the vicinity of Enterprise.
Huh? I thought that Enterprise is supposed to be 100 lightyears away from Earth. The Borg would need ca. 170 days (?) to catch up with Enterprise. Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Hasn't it been suggested that the ship is on its way back toward Earth. I mean, the Horizon certainly isn't out 100 l/y hauling freight...its an old ass freighter probably within a few dozen l/y's of Earth at best...indicating that Enterprise is on its way back...yet it has to be over 25 l/y's because last weeks 'alien of the week' wasn't within that range of Earth...
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
Returning somewhat to the matter at hand:
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: -The Borg debris field is kinda obvious, no? There's wreckage and stuff strewn over a fairly large area... I'm somewhat surprised that something like that wasn't visible from space a whole lot earlier than this.
-Borg sphere = 600 meters in diameter, according to the curvature of the wreckage. Have at it, size boys!
Though it's nice to have an indication of the size of the sphere seen in FC, I just can't get past this:
From what I'm hearing, the episode basically says the whole sphere went down. From what I can see above, there's just that little bit at the bottom that could possibly be big enough to make a debris field, even assuming it (and the drones aboard it) managed to survive re-entry.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
No no... there was only a little bit of the debris left. The science team EXTRAPOLATED the sphere's size by measuring the curvature, and then SPECULATED that there was a lot more debris than they saw initiall.
It's still workable, it seems.
The big question I have is, why Borg are able to work in the vacuum of space, which is an approximate temperature of 2.73� Kelvin, while the temperature in Earth's Arctic Circle is more like 273�K... Or at least around 250�K...
Seeing the assimilated Earth transport in action made me think of a very interesting theory... the ship from "Descent" which has given us so much trouble? What if that was an unknown NON-BORG SHIP that was assimilated and used? The assymetrical additions had a similar style as that seen on the Earth transport, in some ways...
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
It wasn't nearly as bad an episode as I thought it'd be, but still, if they hadn't reduced the time it took for the Borg nanoprobes to take affect, there would not have been a story to begin with. A few hairy moments, especially when we see Captain Archer's naivity assert itself in regards to the assimilated people. It seems like he changed his mind too quickly, he seemed the idealistic type that wouldn't be stopped by just different biometric readings.
BTW, did the NX-01 always have two rear torpedoe launchers? I was rather amazed by the amount of punishment she delt. Not to mention that the phase pistols seemed more capable of delaying being adapted to than 24th Century phasers, simply by dialing up the power. Other little things like bothered me was the fact Admiral Forrester accompanied the search party, which made no sense. That the Borg nanoprobes could not assimilate individuals as rapidly as they did in the future, even though they had no problem with assimilating equipment at a high rate.
Malcolm's line about them "might as well be shooting holographic bullets" was kinda funny.
Highly skeptical that a mere subspace signal could reach all the way back to the Delta Quadrant, especially without the aid of rely stations. If that was possible, why did the Borg in FC even bother with rigging the Ent-E's nav deflector?
Finally, this, ontop of Cochrane's speech at Princeton, ontop of the accounts the survivors of Guiane's race, etc, you'd think the Federation wouldn't have been so surprised by the Borg when they were 'formally' introduced in the 24th Century.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Well, having just viewed the show, which I can say overall "works" for the series, I thought I would contribute some additional notes or organized specs on various technology (most of this may be a rehash of Mark's), but I organized/typed this as the episode progressed:
22nd Century Arctic ground vehicles!! As in 'tracked-plow trucks' at the base camp...
"Arctic One" was called by the "A-6 Excavation Team". "Arctic One" could refer to the name of the "Arctic Transport" or the camp.
The "Arctic Transport" (aka the Borgs ship, aka Marks 'hovercraft') originally had a normal "max of wf 1.4" (as mentioned). These ships are also normally unarmed, however the Borg modified this one to incorporate a "proton burst" but VFX showed both this and then later, the now classic Borg green 'torpedoes' (seen in the above pics).
Also, as mentioned, the Borgified ship left Earth at 'wf 3.9', by the time Enterprise encountered it, it was engaging a "Tarkalean freighter" where it was engaged by the Enterprise, yet managed to escape. Then once relocated, their top speed was 'doubled to wf 4.8'; Enterprise pursued her at 'wf 4.9' despite being '2 light year's away'. Upon catching the ship it was noted that the 'mass had increased 3%' (having enhanced all except the aft plating) from their first meeting. The ship, upon being caught by Enterprise, sped up to 'wf 4.96 --> wf 4.98', but Enterprise managed to knock it out of warp....upon a Voyager-esque battle sequence...the ship eventually went *BOOM*.
The Borgified ship population breakdown: 29 Borg = ~2 were the original drones, ~9 were Human, ~18 were Tarkaleans.
The "Tarkalean freighter" had a crew of ~20 (~18 drones + 2 biosigns/drones left behind). Their homeworld is "Tarkalea".
Note Reeds comment about the Borg armor and the ineffectiveness of their phase pistols and something along the lines of "we might as well have been shooting holographic bullets", an 'in-joke', no doubt.
The phase pistols were upped to 10 Megajoules (=10 million joules) to beat the Borg and lasted through a shitload of drones....according to the Klingon article in ST:The Magazine, the Klingon standard pistol is about 2.7 times more powerful, and certainly they, or their Federation counterpart, wouldn't have lasted half as long against the Borg in the 24th Century...
...and Whoa Boy!, two *new* episodes next week!!!
Posted by Warbadden Hawkins (Member # 905) on :
That was the frelling worst episode of ANYTHING I've ever SEEN!!!!!!!
First I have gone on strike: I quite watching after last season. However I was intrigued how B+B could mess up the borg......
since when does the NX-01 have "photon" looking(and sounding) torpedoes and linear phaser arrays?
since when do the borg not assimilate defenceless humans lying on the ground......
the guns only have two settings and maclom says use "high-est" setting
Why didn't the E-E sensors pick up MASSIVE SPHERE CHUNKS, I mean what the heck that hull piece was at least 100ft tall!!
At least for me I'm settleing on the FACT that the entire concept of a "NX-01 UNIVERSE" is a alternate reality. NOT the NORMAL QUANTUM REALITY we tend to think of when regarding TREK.
"I am wondering why the borg would go to their homeworld if it is so far away and they already informed themselves and there is a planet of defenseless humans sitting right there in their grasp and the reinforcements would have no hope of getting there in time......why abandon the mission in the middle of a perfect opportunity just to go on a futile sight seeing trip?" Quoted from KARNAGE with permission.
I also just remembered that the NX-01 locked weapons on the Borg transport during warp... Had it not dropped out of warp, what would she have done, fired phased cannons and spatial torpedoes forward during warp? Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by David Templar: Finally, this, ontop of Cochrane's speech at Princeton, ontop of the accounts the survivors of Guiane's race, etc, you'd think the Federation wouldn't have been so surprised by the Borg when they were 'formally' introduced in the 24th Century.
Well it does make one wonder how the Hansens have such a wonderful cube model prior to even encountering a cube....maybe SF just didnt give a crap because of the greater concerns at home...the Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, etc...to worry about some species located 50 years travel away...with, as far as SF knew, no reason to single Earth out or anything that ever implicated that Earth was ever to be significant enough of a target in the near future anyway...
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy: I'm not questioning you, but just the sanity of the writers...but how would the Borg have wisely known that warp 3.9 would have gotten them into the clear? Seems rather convienient...unless they had their Earth history books and chronometers set to the right date to know that they would be fast enough to actually get out of the system unchallenged... [/QB]
warp 3.9 might have been the top speed the low-tech warp ship could withstand with the mods already built into it.
The Borg might not ahve been headed directly back to their space: they could have been seeking out a charted world full of easy prey and high tech to bolster their strength and return to complete the mission from First contact (since that pesky 1701-E had finally left!). Posted by Fleet-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
I just saw the episode... it was more than tolerable. It brought back the old, threating feeling the Borg first gave off in TNG. I love the way the Artic ship become Borgified... and also that comment Reed makes about holographic bullets.
A theory on the slow assimilation process... The Borg have algorithms that initiate when they are cut off from The Collective, basically for survival and retrieval. What if it takes The Collective, or even a "mini collective" like in FC to fully initiate the nanoprobes. The Voyager episode "Unity" had the Cooperative link together to heal Chakotay's injuries. What if you need some kind of central order to make assimilation go faster?
Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
Seemed to me like just an excuse to use Borg stuff because B&B love it so. So many self referential bits I felt I was watching Monty Python's "Nudge Nudge Wink Wink" sketch.
As to the tech; okay, so what's the Borg drone's power source? Do drones tap into subspace? Two aliens get Borgified and now that can materialize complex matter out of thin air? What's the power source? This stuff gets too close to "magic" for my taste. I can sorta buy drones from a Borg ship having that kind of power, as they charge up in those cubbys, but the guys on the Enterprise? Woulda been nice if we saw these new drones tapping into the ship's power or something to charge up.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Good question. Perhaps goes to explain why the Drones went down so easily? Their shielding might have been of superb late 24th century standard, but it was running on minimal power...
Random comments:
I think Futurama Guy got it exactly right by calling the Enterprise a scout. That's what fast ships ought to do - check out the obvious targets and decide whether to send a research team there at warp 1.8 or not. Using the scout to do the research would be just as stupid as sneing the research team out there for a three-year journey when it wasn't certain whether there would be anything interesting there...
As for the E-E not spotting the debris, dialogue indicates the sensors were down. To assess damage to the launch site of the Phoenix, they had to send an away team. Later on, they had priorities other than sensor repairs... Probably the Sphere fragments were simply buried in ice for a century.
It's still very odd that an arctic research team would have a starship. It's much like Cousteau operating from an aircraft carrier - not merely overkill, but also profoundly pointless. What good would warp drive do them?
Perhaps the team had the ship standing by in order to spirit the findings off Earth ASAP, to hide them from somebody. The Vulcans, perhaps?
It didn't sound as if the Arctic base was a permanent Starfleet or commercial starport, right?
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by Timo: As for the E-E not spotting the debris, dialogue indicates the sensors were down. To assess damage to the launch site of the Phoenix, they had to send an away team. Later on, they had priorities other than sensor repairs... Probably the Sphere fragments were simply buried in ice for a century.
It's still very odd that an arctic research team would have a starship. It's much like Cousteau operating from an aircraft carrier - not merely overkill, but also profoundly pointless. What good would warp drive do them?
Perhaps the team had the ship standing by in order to spirit the findings off Earth ASAP, to hide them from somebody. The Vulcans, perhaps?
It didn't sound as if the Arctic base was a permanent Starfleet or commercial starport, right?
IIRC in FC, the sensors being down was also mentioned as the reason why or how or when the Borg got on board the E-E...
As far as the warp ship...it was classified as a 'transport' and it did appear to have 'skis', so perhaps it may be overkill, or to answer your other question, the base (camp) was temporary and did contain some elaborate elements (i.e. a tracked snow plow, and many tents and equiptment) and it may have been enlisted to transport the components (both thiers and what was recovered) from the arctic to, say, San Fran or even to Vulcan...so there is a plausable explaination for the need of such a ship. Warp drive may have been overkill...but maybe SF is just 'warp happy' once they got it...
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Warp 1.4 is somewhere between 2 and 8 times the speed of light. Given its size and landing equipment, I'm guessing that it probably isn't meant for true interstellar transportation. It's reasonable that low-warp ships could be used for jaunts out to places like the Oort cloud, possible extrasolar planets/bodies, long-range comets, and other anomalies not too far away from Earth. Who knows? Maybe low-warp engines are advanced to the point that they can be equipped on smaller vessels with relative ease - anything above warp 2 may be the problem.
Mark
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Some people may disagree, but "low warp" is also useful for interplanetary travel...
I've also had a few theories about the speed of assimilation and the reactions of the drones:
-- Perhaps those two original drones were "running low" on nanoprobes, and only injected a few compared to a huge dose that was given in FC, where there were a lot more available.
-- Anyone notice that after the drones that boarded the NX-01 during the last fight adapted their shields, Archer and Reed still managed to shoot down a few? I speculate that the drones that boarded the ship were either "tactical"-based drones, with different implants, or possibly they were the first victims assimilated, and thus had the most time for the implants (including shield generator) to take hold.
Overall, although there were a few holes, I do think that they can still be explained, considering that the two original drones started with literally nothing but the armor on their backs, so to speak. They were probably debilitated from the long sleep... not to mention that they had no Collective to link to other than the one they formed by assimilating others.
At any rate, I definitely agree with Michael T.... I got the feeling that the Borg were a real, true threat here, like they were in TNG. Of course, these were drones from the movie, and so they were Next Generation Borg, not Voyager Borg. Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
I'm sure warp has uses within solar systems. I'm less sure the arctic survey team had any business moving about within solar systems, though... And I'd still hesitate calling warp 1.4 "slower than 8c", given how nicely warp 2 moves ships between stars in TOS and VOY.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Well, it's probably a good bet that the survey ship wasn't intended specifically for the Arctic... it's possible it was just requisitioned for that mission, and is used by the United Earth Science Council for any kind of operation in the Sol System.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
...Indeed, the whole Borg incident will probably be covered up because the team leader misused his authority and connections in requisitioning a warpship for a dirtbound mission, with the intention of taking his girlfriend for a quick spin around Venus. Other influential members of the FTL Club will make sure that no record of the incident survives.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
After due consideration, I came up with this observation. These wern't the Borg. WHAT? you say? Simple, the Borg are a civilazation. These Cybernetic hybreds had come from the Borg, but they only had their own 20-30 group mind, had no real history or plan, and still had 22nd century technology to use. They didn't have access to the technical information of the 24th century.
In Voyager's time, if a borg is hit by a fasor, they say "oh look, a fasor hit us this way, this adaptation is called for" and poof, effective shields.
In NX-01's time, those junior borg said "that's some sort of energy weapon, lets try this defense.... okay, that didn't work.... lets try this defense... okay, two more down.... try THIS... and poof, effective shields.
Ditto with the borg technology that modified Voyager, compaired to the borg technology that modified the NX-01. Tripp probobly knew all the parts, he had just never seen them re-connected in that way.
Oh and, I got the impression that Phlox's cure was a heavy dose of radiation, which had then had to cure... and may have been physiologically uniquely adapted for. On the Enterprise-E, they probobly had the nanoprobes specifically set to change humans.
Posted by Ryan McReynolds (Member # 28) on :
quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: Well, it's probably a good bet that the survey ship wasn't intended specifically for the Arctic... it's possible it was just requisitioned for that mission, and is used by the United Earth Science Council for any kind of operation in the Sol System.
For that matter, maybe these guys were the crack reserach team in known space, working out of Vega Colony. When some arctic earthquake exposed Borg stuff, they were called back to Earth for the investigation aboard their warp transport.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheWoozle: After due consideration, I came up with this observation. These wern't the Borg. WHAT? you say? Simple, the Borg are a civilazation. These Cybernetic hybreds had come from the Borg, but they only had their own 20-30 group mind, had no real history or plan, and still had 22nd century technology to use. They didn't have access to the technical information of the 24th century.
In Voyager's time, if a borg is hit by a fasor, they say "oh look, a fasor hit us this way, this adaptation is called for" and poof, effective shields.
...or they were linked into the Uni-Mind from NX-01's time and the Colective was just 200 years less advanced so adaptation was slower. Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: Anyone notice that after the drones that boarded the NX-01 during the last fight adapted their shields, Archer and Reed still managed to shoot down a few? I speculate that the drones that boarded the ship were either "tactical"-based drones, with different implants, or possibly they were the first victims assimilated, and thus had the most time for the implants (including shield generator) to take hold.
I thought it was because Reed's and Archer's pistols had been modified to up their power, while the guys back on the ship still had standard-output weapons.
To my very great and delighted astonishment, this was an AWESOME episode! I didn't expect it to come off anywhere near as well as it did. The "look," (very X-Files at the beginning and then so grim and frantic towards the end) the acting, the pace, and the story (which I consider to be quite a clever one and a fitting conclusion to the "Borg arc") were in near-perfect balance. This is the best one since "Future Tense" and "Cease Fire."
Can't wait for next week's *double* episodes!
-MMoM Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
^ I agree, however, if this Enterprise actually happened before TOS as it kind of is intended to be, the Borg would have been a whole lot more "Q Who?"-ish and well, X-Files kind of scary. However, watching the show, and the guy standing over the Borg watching the display with nil lifesigns, you just knew what was going to happen...so in watching it you wouldn't have been as 'jumpy' as if this really was the first Borg episode as this is half-intended to be... Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
I agree. I liked this episode. Good pacing (althought the resolution at the end was a bit quick), good music, and scary Borg.
But that 'transport' is a bit of a mystery. Judging by their uniforms, the scientists were not with Starfleet. It seems as if Starfleet took control of whatever original mission these Arctic scientists were on after the debris was spotted. That might also explain how the scientists got their hands on a brand new phase rifle. But that doesn't explain why they need a warpship.
Posted by Cartmaniac (Member # 256) on :
Well, if they're the kind of scientists that regularly whizz back and forth across the solar system, a warp-capable transport would cut their average ETE down from Grand Expedition to Field Trip.
[ May 09, 2003, 06:57 AM: Message edited by: Cartmaniac ]
Posted by Woodside Kid (Member # 699) on :
The timing of Cochrane's speech made me wonder. In 2063, as Riker says, "most of the major cities are gone, very few governments are left," and a year later he's making a commencement address at Princeton (2153 - 89 = 2064)? What sort of courses was the place offering, Fire Making 101?
Posted by Styrofoaman (Member # 706) on :
Yeah, but we all know the records from this time are spotty and fragmented at best.
So said Spock.
quote:Originally posted by Woodside Kid: The timing of Cochrane's speech made me wonder. In 2063, as Riker says, "most of the major cities are gone, very few governments are left," and a year later he's making a commencement address at Princeton (2153 - 89 = 2064)? What sort of courses was the place offering, Fire Making 101?
Posted by Woodside Kid (Member # 699) on :
Very spotty, since I don't recall our favorite Vulcan ever mentioning the 2150s .
Seriously, though, when the balloon went up in 2053, the students in the Princeton class of 2064 would have been around 11 years old. Unless the US had totally dropped out of world affairs and no one was lobbing warheads at it at all (unlikely, given the condition of the people around Cochrane's launch site), the kids would have had a lot more important things to worry about at the time than finishing the 5th grade. I think it highly unlikely that the school system would still be functioning at a necessary level to prepare someone to get into Princeton under those circumstances.
Posted by Woodside Kid (Member # 699) on :
Very spotty, since I don't recall our favorite Vulcan ever mentioning the 2150s .
Seriously, though, when the balloon went up in 2053, the students in the Princeton class of 2064 would have been around 11 years old. Unless the US had totally dropped out of world affairs and no one was lobbing warheads at it at all (unlikely, given the condition of the people around Cochrane's launch site), the kids would have had a lot more important things to worry about at the time than finishing the 5th grade. I think it highly unlikely that the school system would still be functioning at a necessary level to prepare someone to get into Princeton under those circumstances.
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
After the 9/11 destruction of the World Trade Center, and similar destruction after California Earthquakes, I think that even after a limited nuclear exchange (compaired to nuclear winter time) the 'ground zero' areas would be slag, but other areas (San Fransisco apperently) where only lightly effected. It wouldn't suprise me if Princeton was untouched and only missed a year of classes, then had a 'hard time' for a couple years, after the infrastructure was back up and running.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Well, I could see where he might have said in during his say "drunken years", early on following his success, and, of course, refuted it once he became less of a drunk and more of a "enlightened man" which seems to be the person Riker quoted him to be later on.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
On Princeton graduating a class already in 2064... assuming they have some similarity to the Fall-to-Spring school year that the US uses today (and apparently used by Starfleet Academy as well), that suggests that Princeton got its act together and rustled up a class within months after First Contact. I find that unlikely.
Also, I find it relatively unlikely that Princeton itself could have survived. Even if it was a limited nuclear exchange with "only" 600 million dead, Princeton itself is smack in the middle of the Northeast Corridor, the most densely populated part of the United States. IIRC it's about halfway from New York to Philadelphia. I'm not familiar with any of the projections for a Soviet-era nuclear war, but I'd be very surprised if Princeton was able to survive and keep running.
Alternatively, Cochrane had to have a lab of some kind to be able to manufacture warp coils, plasma transfer conduits, and so forth, even if it was primitive stuff.
As for the credibility of Cochrane's story... I figure he'd already cleaned up his act, but since it was relatively soon after the First Contact, they probably figured it was still some kind of delusion. Heck, remember how Cochrane yelled "to hell with the Phoenix!" during the Borg attack? Maybe it was something like that, they figured. Maybe Lily decided to tell a story like that, her being the "brains" of that duo , to try to cover up.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Woodside Kid: I think it highly unlikely that the school system would still be functioning at a necessary level to prepare someone to get into Princeton under those circumstances.
Well we know that money is still around in Cochrane's time so mabye some parents just made a big donation. Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: On Princeton graduating a class already in 2064... assuming they have some similarity to the Fall-to-Spring school year that the US uses today (and apparently used by Starfleet Academy as well), that suggests that Princeton got its act together and rustled up a class within months after First Contact. I find that unlikely.
Well, the facts are, we dont know the extent of the Vulcans 'assistance' following 'first contact'. One of their first 'gestures' may have been to help Earth rebuild or restore its educational and medical and living facilities. Until we get there, or until Star Trek goes to that time and place, we will never know the true extent of the WWIII aftermath....
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: -The three scientists we see have two very distinct patches on their parka sleeves. Anyone make any of that out?
Isn't someone here in touch with Geoffrey Mandel? He might know something about these patches.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Here are some screenshots, including the two patches on the Arctic team, their uniforms, what looks like a Starfleet Command patch and flag, and the blue shuttle. Oh, and the warpship.
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
But no plasma rifles, firing beams or otherwise. Pleh. B(
In the first coupla shots of that guy's shoulder-patch, it looked like that yellow horizontal area might have been meant to represent an NX's saucer front-on, but not in the third picture. Might be a nice design for a patch nevertheless, anyone feeling inventive?
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
Geoff left the Enterprise Art Department for other projects at the end of last season. Okuda might be worth a shot, or Drexler might be able to get us in touch with some of the current scenic artists (Frederickson, Kobayashi or Van Over).
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Here are your phase rifles. Firing beams. Although possibly shorter beams than the pistol.
Nice one, Harry. Another look at that patch seems to show what looks like a curving line at the bottom - meant to represent a planet beneath whatever that horizontal line is?
*looks at new pic* Hmm, interesting. . .
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
The rifle used by the scientists in the first act is identical to the ones used later on Enterprise, but they fire pulses. Different sound effect, too.
Mark
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
Oh, well, I guess when they've used the same prop as the weapon of at least half a dozen different races, deciding to use it as both a plasma pulse rifle and a phase rifle isn't too much of a leap!
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