OK... here's an extremely quick kitbash of what the steamrunner-looking earth ship might look like.
From the screen caps I've seen, there looks to be a single catamaran structure exteding aft from a saucer that is very much like the NX class'. Off the aft end of that catamaran, two struts break off. The nacelles appear to be laterally even with the impulse engines, and elevationally above the saucer, though I can't tell if they actually overlap it.
The winglets appear to extend back and slope downward.
I've made the bridge
There appears to be an observation booth or some other structure at the very end of the catamaran.
I've made the bridge a little bigger, assuming that the ship itself is smaller than Enterprise. I've also made it a little wider, as the screen caps appear to show a wider ship. Plus... it looked kind of dumb at Enterprise's width and I prefer to think that these ships are cool looking
I'm sure I'm off on some details. Anyone got any better details of these bad boys?
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"...single catamaran..."
Oxymoron.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I didn't know what else to call it...
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Hull?
Posted by Cartmaniac (Member # 256) on :
"Fuselage"
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Well let me be the first to day that either way it looks pretty good...
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
you can day dat again
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
dat again
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
OK... i sort of forget now... but I think the point of this was for you guys to point out any details about the ship that I didn't take into account...
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Okay, well, its hard to say as we had what?- a whole .5-sec view of the ship on-screen, which really did not giving us much to go by...
Either way it looks more like an early Ambassador and/or Constitution II than a Steamrunner...(at least from the top)
...if they only gave us a good 'escort' shot of the ships as they all returned to Earth...[insert disappointed smilie here] Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
monomaran? Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Are we sure it had a round saucer?
And these ships' sizes have always bugged me. Prior to the Warp 5 engine, at Warp 2 it would still take months to get anywhere. Given the unreplicated, low-efficiency world of "Enterprise", I wonder why these ships aren't gargantuan for the amount of consumables they'd have to carry.
Ont he flipside, it does look like these ships are atmosphere-friendly. Perhaps pre-warp 5 exploration almost required the ship to find an M-class planet to refuel and resupply? Or at least places where you can get water for fuel?
Another consideration is antimatter - one wonders if they'd come up with the technology to create it onboard a ship yet for emergency purposes...
Mark
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
We need to stick this kit bash side-by-side with a screen shot for a better analysis
Edit:
Actually there really, upon review, appears to be no 'saucer' shot of this particular ship, however the 'triangle' ship seems to have a couple 'full shots' of the ship that would seem make a model kitbash more practical
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I can't remember where I grabbed these from... so thanks go to whosever the are:
And, no... I'm not sure at all that the ship's saucer is round. It could be triangular. In fact, looking at that second one again, I'd say that's a distinct possibility. I'd like it alot better if it were as it would bear less resemblance to the NX class.
Posted by NightWing (Member # 4) on :
I think the saucer is more like a Nova class, triangular with a gap in the front of it.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Didn't notice the picture on this page when I posted my last reply. It looks just about dead-on as to what I saw in the episode. I'll see if I can get some more screen grabs up.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Ah yes... the Akyazi... Mmmmmmmm.... I've got a Constitution saucer diseted in my studio. Every couple months or so, I spend a couple hours trying to figure out how take the next step in making an Akyazi-esque model.
Posted by NightWing (Member # 4) on :
Note that grab #2 has a lot of motion blur in it, but it the best one to see the rear end of the saucer being almost straight instead of round.
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: Ah yes... the Akyazi... Mmmmmmmm.... I've got a Constitution saucer diseted in my studio. Every couple months or so, I spend a couple hours trying to figure out how take the next step in making an Akyazi-esque model.
You can purchase a 1/650 scale resin cast model of the Akyazi class PA at McDaniel Models. Just so you know, Cory McDaniel has had a bit of a problem being... slow... in filling orders. However, he seems to have gotten all back-orders filled at this time. I've ordered from him twice and my orders took a bit longer than the advertised time-frame to fill. To be totally fair to Cory, he has mentioned in the past that he's had some health problems which caused his business dealings to suffer and I did eventually get my order.
Anyhow, I own his SFB Gorn Heavy Destroyer and Akyazi models and like what I see in both. I've only built up my Akyazi (seen here, scroll down to the bottom image) to the point of primering and it went well 'til the pylons started to sag. I've stopped until I can come up with some way to strengthen the pylons and stop the sag. Hope to build the Gorn heavy destroyer over the summer.
Sorry to have gone off-topic w/in the thread....
HTH,
Posted by Proteus (Member # 212) on :
I think it was more triangular the that. closer to prommie angles.
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
That looks a lot like I imagine the ship. But I'm not completely sure that the main hull is triangular. Simply because the other Earth ship is totally triangular (or maybe just because of that?).
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
theres a brief front view of that ship, right before the BOP flees.. ive been unable to isolate it to get a look at it though.. i did make a little vidclip of the scene, if anyone else wants to take a crack at it
quote: "The Starfleet ships were just shapes we came up with," Eaves told the Starfleet Communications Network at the recent WonderFest convention. The Warp 2-capable ships helped the Enterprise NX-01 fight off an attack from the Klingons as it returned to Earth.
"The script just asked for some backup Starfleet vessels so it was just a bunch of shapes we kind of conglomerated together that kind of looked pre-NX-01. And so [executive producer] Rick Berman just picked two out of the five. There's no names, no numbers, or really anything on them."
Doh!
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
oops..double post
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
oops...triple post
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Well, so what? It's not like we could really see much of them anyway...
I'd probably go with the assumption Bernd put on his site, that the unique "Steamrunner" ship was named Intrepid, identified as the lead ship of the group. It looked slightly bigger (or at least more advanced) than the other design, at least from what I saw of it.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
why are they limiting these ships to warp 2.. concievably, while NX-01 has been out and about for two years, the Warp 5 drive technology could have been used to refit old earthships to top speeds of warp 3 or 4 at least.. this would allow for an Intrepid that could possibly be an intersystem patroller/explorer between Earth and Centauri or any other close star system. possibly for diplomatic trips to nearby friendly worlds like Vulcan too.
Posted by newark (Member # 888) on :
I am disappointed. The artists have spent considerable time and money in designing and creating ships for the Vulcans, the Klingons, and a few no-body aliens. When they came to the designs for the Starfleet ships, no special effort was expended. Throw a few shapes together and, voila!, there was a Starfleet ship. Blech!!!
Posted by NightWing (Member # 4) on :
I think retrofitting is harder than you think. I mean, can the nacelles handle it? Can the structural fields handle it? Hell, can the hull handle it?
I think in the end it's much better to make a whole new ship.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Archer implied that it would be a relatively simple task to put new engines on existing freighters, though.
Posted by Adm_Amit (Member # 1046) on :
I think that retrofitting freighters could be logistically a little less complex a task than retrofitting current more complex starfleet vessels that are out there. The warp drive acts as an enormous power source to the ship. Well it feeds power to other systems in the ship. Integrating new technology unto older hardware requires a lot of upgrading on the large scale to avoid any incompatibility issues. It's not as though the Starfleet Corps of Engineers could just easily take out an "old" warp drive and replace it with Archer's Warp 5 drive and hope for the best.
I must agree that the warp 2 on 99% of starfleet vessels does limit does seem like a ridiculous idea. If the warp 5 threshold was penetrated less than 100 years after Cochrane's Warp 1 Drive worked it would seem more likely that Starfleet should have vessels that should at least have a warp 4 drive incorporated as their main propulsive drive system.
As for the lack of creativity that illustrators have shown with respect to starfleet vessels is quite disturbing. This new series could be a great platform for illustrators to come up with wacky or crazy designs or at least show some good precursor designs for starfleet classes such as the Daedalus or even Constitution vessels. I personally would really like to see a Daedalus class hull being constructed at some point (maybe at the end of the series). OR something even more fun could be a small storyline of an engineer at Starfleet's Starship Design Bureau come up with the design for the Constitution class vessel and have one of his supervisors toss it aside as saying that starfleet would never use an idea so extravagant as the constitution. OR have a story that parallel's Jack Northrop's design of the flying wing. Jack Northrop came up with the Flying Wing idea back during WWII. The aircraft was formidable but complex as the technology needed to control it was just not there. The aircraft went through separate stages: from propellers even through jet engines. The program was cancelled because the AF went with another aircraft. It took a long time to get Norhtrop's Flying Wing design to come into reality with the introduction of the B-2 Spirit. I guess a storyline resembling the Constitution class could be so easily derived from this. How Starfleet chose to go with the Daedalus class design instead of the Constitution class which was just not ready yet. I know this is not the right thread to come up with this but I just couldn't resist.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Multi-episode story arcs about treknobabble? Sounds like a Bad Idea.
Posted by Adm_Amit (Member # 1046) on :
It would sure beat some of the crappy stories that have been written so far. But then again that's my personal opinion.
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
Replacing a warp drive? Probably doable, even in ENT time.
Checklist: - swap out old core for new core, including M/AM injector assemblies - possibly replace PTC to handle new core's plasma - replace nacelles or drive coils and plasma injectors - uprate SIF and IDF, or replace - uprate navigational deflector, or replace - install support, control, misc hardware related to above systems - load the proper drivers and make sure the new warp field is calibrated to the ship's warp geometry - apply "Plot Device Inside(TM)" stick to side of hull - watch Archer cry like the sissy of a Captain he is because they replaced his father's engine, 2 episode arc of how he deals with it through water polo and bad Kirk impressions
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
One of the best and most detailed drydock scenes I've ever seen.
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
That has, and always shall be, a bloody ugly ship.
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
Aesthetics alone fails to intrigue me. It's precisely the reason why the NX is so deplorable - it was designed with 'looks' in mind, and only looks. There's a lot to be said for ships that don't concentrate wholly on the wow factor.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I'm so terribly disappointed that more thought wasn't put into those earth ships. Not because I think bunches of time should be spent on things that won't show up... but because it probably means they won't be used again, nor will we likely get any info on them.
Now... that said... if they made models for these earth ships, no matter how low-detailed... there must be schematics for them. Perhaps we can hope to see them show up in Communicator, but with the departure of The Magazine, there is a lack of official publications in which they might be reproduced.
Oddly, the ship right before Enterprise in the credits seems to have more internal space than either of these two ships. It has a saucer and secondary hull, where the engines are.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by The_Tom: That has, and always shall be, a bloody ugly ship.
Says you. I happen to like it. So bleh!
-MMoM Posted by Adm_Amit (Member # 1046) on :
You know that is quite right. Since not enough time into creating starfleet ships or even into starfleet itself is clearly shown in its portrayal. The ships that have been made so far aren't quite impressive and I have personally asked myself how humans were able to survive this long with such a primitive fleet and nonexistent planetary defense. I really wish that more emphasis was placed on starfleet. Enterprise is being portrayed a little too much like Voyager. Enterprise is being isolated too much and almost no emphasis has been placed on starfleet. A lot of what starfleet has done really won't make too much sense. Why would starfleet send only one ship, specially their only state of the art ship into such a dangerous area as the Delphic Expanse. IT would make more sense for them to send a small task force instead.
I almost think that starfleet should have been building another NX vessel during the time that Enterprise was out during its first exploratory mission. By now Starfleet should have at least one or two more active NX vessels and have one or two in production.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
The aircraft carrier USS Nimitz took four years to build. From "First Flight" we can suppose that it took anywhere between 1-3 years to build Enterprise.
More importantly, I think they held off on starting NX-02 for several reasons. For starters, the NX class is their largest ship yet; they probably have only so much resources to build one at a time, including stuff like spacedocks and production facilities. NX-02 was obviously being assembled in a different dock than Enterprise; assuming they were keeping the NX-01 dock empty to service Enterprise or other ships and not for construction, I seriously doubt they'd have much more than that.
Also, I'm sure they wanted to make sure that Enterprise was built on a sound design before cranking them out. With the NX class being such a breakthrough design, it would make sense for Starfleet to make sure Archer and company worked lots of bugs out before ordering mass production. Note, for example, that six years went between the launch of USS Galaxy and Enterprise-D, with Yamato somewhere in between.
Regarding your other point, sending a warp two task force into the Expanse would take years to do. Enterprise is fast, heavily armed (for them) and equipped with characters that can't die. Besides, Starfleet was convinced that dealing with the Xindi is more important than re-sending Enteprise out to explore more stuff, and I would tend to agree. If someone's concerned that Enterprise whould stay home instead, why bother? The Intrepid and those triangular ships had phase cannons, and could presumably be armed with photon(ic) torpedoes as well. Unless Enterprise is tremendously superior to her predecessors in sublight maneuverbility (which doesn't seem likely according to onscreeen evidence), one ship probably wouldn't make a difference to the next Xindi attack.
Mark
Posted by Adm_Amit (Member # 1046) on :
I don't disagree with what you've said because it's all sound and makes sense. But what I would say that would be a more apropriate action when producing such a big project to have a backup. This can be clearly seen in any major project that is conducted nowadays. As a good example I can present the Space Shuttle. During it's development in the 1970s Rockwell developed 2 main test articles and 2 flight vehicles. Structurally-wise all 4 articles began assembly at a very close proximity within the same year. Now the test articles (MPTA-98 and STA-99) were finished at close proximity. The two flight vehicles (OV-101 and OV-102) were finished at separate dates because OV-101 (Enterprise) was chosen not be an active orbiter. If it had been chosen, all other major system integrations that went into OV-102 (Columbia) would have been completed on OV-101 at the same time.
All I'm saying is that Starfleet would have begun work on at least 2 space-worthy frames for what became the NX class. Maybe not simultaneously but at a slight gap of a few months not because they didn't trust their design but as a factor of safety. Nothing that important is ever built alone. There's always a backup.
If you don't like that idea then I have another possible suggestion. Starfleet vessels like many aerospace vessels and propulsion systems nowadays follow the modular concept. Many separate sub-assemblies or modules are created and assembled into the main assembly. As such the creation of the NX really keeps following that tradition. If Starfleet didn't have another available production facility to construct a second spaceframe It would make a lot of sense for Starfleet to have been producing backup spare modules for the prototype vessel that became Enterprise. This would have been done just in case any irreversible damage was experienced by Enterprise. This idea isn't really far fetched as it is regularly practiced in the aerospace industry nowadays and surely would continue into the future. As a very good example, the Orbiter Endeavour was completely assembled from structural spare modules that were made for the Atlantis and Discovery Orbiters. Again by producing these spare modules assembly and test of Endeavour took a lot less than normal production on one of the original orbiters. Once again if this would have been performed then production of a second NX class vessel would not have taken long and there would conceivably be at least another NX Class vessel at least going through the Test Operations. Maybe not a full space-worthy vessel but at least a core crew performing all sorts of tests on the ship. During any sort of production any engineering changes performed on one product are immediately incorporated into the succesor usually just delaying the release of the original product and not the successor. As such any sort of flaws or changes done to the NX-01 would have been incorporated into the NX-02 to prevent delay in its production.
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
Personally, I think people are making too big a fuss over the NX. Even Starfleet doesn't really care, Archer himself said "one more ship isn't going to make a difference" or something along those lines. So even if the NX-02 was available, Starfleet would hardly be in need of her capabilities. The NX was never the pride of the Fleet when it came to weaponry, considering the proliferation in phase cannon and introduction of photon torpedoes to NX-01 (meaning Earth had it before NX got home, and since it doesn't require new launchers, someone else probably already got them installed before NX).
Besides, the NX, for all its stupidity in design, is a relatively roomy ship with a long leg and lots of accessories. Starfleet would do far better spending its resources on smaller ships with the same technology, if they really wanted some muscles. Less internal volume, and what they do have is filled with weapons, kinda like the principle behind the Defiant. And like them Earth ships this thread started with, assuming they were smaller than NX-01.
NX is useful as a status symbol for showing off mankind's new long strides into the stars. Pragmatically speaking, it's a joke. It only appliable function comes from getting its butt kicked by Aliens of the Week and warning Starfleet that they need to build a better ship.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
We've established that the new torpedoes DO require refitted and/or additional tubes. For all we know, the hardware could have come from a pile earmarked for NX-02...
Mark
Posted by Adm_Amit (Member # 1046) on :
The photon torpedo technology is a new and experimental one which Starfleet decided to start introducing at least on these experimental starships. As a result it's true that additional launchers are required for the new torpedoes since it would probably take too much time to retrofit the old launchers to accept both new and old torpedoes.
As for the NX ships not being the "pride of the fleet" I would have to seriously disagree with you on that one. I would tend to think that a vessel with a new and revolutionary propulsion system and such a "grandieur" design would certainly be the pride of the fleet. If you look back at real history the Aircraft Carrier USS Enterprise (CVN-65) became the pride of the US Navy having been the first aircraft carrier to have a Nuclear Propulsion system on board which contrasted to its diesel-driven counterparts. I would tend to think that a starship that travels faster and has such great experimental weapon technology would certainly be the pride of Starfleet.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I'm sure that the NX class is the pride of the fleet as far a status and morale goes. But, I think what Archer meant by his line that one more ship won't make that much of a difference is that, if it came to fighting off an invasion, or a major attack on Earth by this new species... that Enterprise wouldn't even the odds much. My guess is that the NX class' major distinction from other earth ships is it's propulsion, and that's it. They probably have no greater weapons or sensor systems. Surely older vessels would be equiped with up to date modular equipment and software. Unless getting there quickly and holding more cargo or people is the issue, I don't think the NX class is all that more impressive from some slightly older earth ships.
Posted by Adm_Amit (Member # 1046) on :
You're absolutely right. Apart from the Warp 5 Drive the NX Class hasn't been shown to surpass older starfleet vessels in other areas such as weaponry.
I know that one more ship won't do anything in regards to this possible "invasion". All I would like to see more and in at least a little more detail are starfleet vessels. I'm so tired of just seeing freighters and alien vessels. The tease in The Expanse was just a tease. I want to be able to be more exposed to what the current fleet at least partially looks like.
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: We've established that the new torpedoes DO require refitted and/or additional tubes. For all we know, the hardware could have come from a pile earmarked for NX-02...
I don't remember the exact quote from "The Expanse", but I'm pretty damn sure it did not mention new launchers. Hell, I ranted before the episode about how its BS if the NX would just get those things and integrate them into existing hardware, so I was paying a lot of attention to see whether I was right or not. I was very much sorry that I was right.
Sure, one could argue that we saw "new" tubes, since the photon torpedoes originated from points closer to the center line than spatial torpedoe launches, and the after pod thing of indeterminate nature, but I'd more readily attribute those to faulty internal consistency/SFX error than "new" torpedoe tubes. Some retrofitting, for sure, we saw that much, but definately nothing revolutionary enough to preclude photon torpedoes from entering service on vessels other than NX.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
FORREST The NX-02.. Ready to launch in 14 months.
ARCHER Long time.
FORREST Hopefully you'll be back well before then.
ARCHER Hopefully.. What kind of armaments will she have?
FORREST Same complement of weapons you'll have once the retrofit's done.
...
REED Photonic torpeoes.. Their range is over fifty times greater than our conventional torpedoes, and they have a variable yield. They can knock the (huh?) off a shuttlepod without scratching the hull, or they can put a three kilometer crater into an asteroid
TUCKER How long is it gonna take to reconfigure the tubes?
REED Well, we've got three teams working on it. They promise they'll be done before we leave spacedock, but I've got to start integrating them into the power grid..
make your own judgements.. looks like NX-01 personnel were doing the work, but it required the installation of new equipment thay didn't have aboard, since they had something new to 'plug in' to the power grid
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
for the record, ive watched some older episodes.. the new photoic torpedo magazine that was installed in 'Expanse' is a whole new assembly that wasnt in the armory before, in fact, its where Reed's control station used to be..
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Not exactly. The console is still there, but has been moved up onto a platform. The new torpedo magazine is free standing in the middle of the room, and the torps slide down and then into the tube which is under the platform. Presumably some method is available to reload the magazine, probably from the ceiling. Mind you, there also has to be a way they transport the old spatial torpedoes from the wall magazines to the loading platform, which we haven't ever seen.
Mark
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
BTW, were those torpedoes stock props from the movies/TNG/DS9? they looked real, but the motion looked kinda CGIed.. im wondering whether they built a loader or if they just composited it digitally
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
quote:Originally posted by CaptainMike: BTW, were those torpedoes stock props from the movies/TNG/DS9?
They really looked like it... I don't know if they even bothered with building new props that looks exactly like the old ones.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Just to be complete, moreso than anything else :
quote:
REED Photonic torpeoes.. Their range is over fifty times greater than our conventional torpedoes, and they have a variable yield. They can knock the
comm array off a shuttlepod without scratching the hull, or they can put a three kilometer crater into an asteroid
TUCKER How long is it gonna take to reconfigure the tubes?
REED Well, we've got three teams working on it. They promise they'll be done before we leave spacedock, but I've got to start integrating them into the power grid..
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
quote:Originally posted by CaptainMike:
Photonic torpeoes.. Their range is over fifty times greater than our conventional torpedoes, and they have a variable yield. They can knock the (huh?) off a shuttlepod without scratching the hull, or they can put a three kilometer crater into an asteroid
"huh?" = Comm array, according to the CC text.
Mark
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I found it kind of interesting that the reason everyone is so wowed by the new torpedoes is their range and variability, and not, that I can recall, that they are much more powerful than the old torpedoes.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
thanks for the help.. i have a hard time understanding people that dont speak American.. i didnt have access to closed caption since i was transcribing listening to the AVI
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Naw, just sharp ears....
Edit: Oh wait, Mark used 'cc'...and pointed it out later...
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Wait, CapnMikey, you seriously have trouble understanding Reed? Wow. What about Troi, Bashir, Picard, Chekov, O'Brien, and so forth?
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Besides, Starfleet was convinced that dealing with the Xindi is more important than re-sending Enteprise out to explore more stuff, and I would tend to agree. If someone's concerned that Enterprise whould stay home instead, why bother? The Intrepid and those triangular ships had phase cannons, and could presumably be armed with photon(ic) torpedoes as well. Unless Enterprise is tremendously superior to her predecessors in sublight maneuverbility (which doesn't seem likely according to onscreeen evidence), one ship probably wouldn't make a difference to the next Xindi attack.