Roddenberry had rules for the design of Federation starships. One was that the Bridge had to be on top. Is there a plausible treknical explanation for this?
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
It's so you can have an Easy-Swap(tm) starship.
Mark
Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
Well, it's just as plausible as putting bridges on top of battleships huge towers
With ST firepower it is rather pointless to try to put bridge deep into ship if, say... Klingon torpedo can punch through the primary hull of Enterprise in ST6 (at least I think it punched through it... )
And as we have seen in "Year of Hell" and "Nemesis" bridges are rather tough to destroy Posted by CaptainMike20X6 (Member # 709) on :
some Trek authors have addressed the issue in more length, stating that the bridge needs to be on top of the computer core but under a sensor dome for the navigations and gyro thingys to work right. others cite interference in systems caused by adjacent ship systems causing controls to respond inefficiently, leading to the control area being segregated from any other power system (other state that since the bridge, for maximum efficiency, must be hard-wired to the ships power grid, causes a lot of the exploding console syndrome that would seem to violate future OSHA regulations.. also , this is compounded by the fact that enemy weapons charge the ships power grid causing surges.
anywho, the gist of it is the power hardwires would be problematic to run through more densely populated areas of the ship like quarters, due to the volatility, and that ship power systems interfere with the speed and accuracy of control panel signals, and also that navigation requires the upper dome and computer core for some odd duotronic/isolinear reason.
its amaxing how, if you give Trekkies 35 years they can explain anything about TOS Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I believe the TNG Tech manual explains it to the gist of: If the shields fail, you're screwed no matter where the bridge is.
Basically, if the enemy can get through your shields, they can get through the hull and destroy the bridge whether it's on the top of the ship, or in the middle.
Posted by djewell (Member # 1111) on :
I think its just for easy refit purposes. It would be easier to have a Plug-n-Play port on top and Bridge modules that can be replaced. Plus you can disintegrate the old module and use it for raw material.
Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
I think it's a silly idea.
We've seen many times how the outside of the ship can be damaged even with shields up, so it makes infinitely more sense to stick it in the middle, surrounded by 10 metres of armour plating and multiple-redundancy shields.
And why would you need to refit a bridge anyway? What can the E-E's bridge do that the E-D's couldn't? (Joystick notwithstanding)
And if you really wanted to refit it for some unknown reason, you could still refit one in the middle of the ship. In fact, on Galaxies, you could have the main bridge where the battle bridge is, and if you really wanted to you could separate to replace it.
And the comparison with modern naval ships doesn't work. The "bridge" on naval ships has to be where it is so the OOD/OOW can see what's going on, which isn't necessary in a viewscreen-equipped starship. The real "command centre" is well protected in the centre of the ship.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
I'd go with the "Federation ships aren't warships" argument, but the fact that the Klingons also put their bridges on top and out in the open makes me think there must be a technical reason behind it. Klingons are brave, but they're not THAT suicidal.
Posted by djewell (Member # 1111) on :
Perhaps the device drivers to run more advanced sensors installed on the last visit to SB come loaded in the bridge. Perhaps the new bridge has a better and more efficient subprocessor.
But it is really a silly idea, as you say. However I think we could keep the bridge module idea intact and keep the bridge inside protected by the armor. The answer? Transport.
If it could be done, transporting the new bridge module into the space where the old one is would be really effective. That way, the Command and Control center would be protected, and you could have the latest version of MSBridge in the ship.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
The fundamental reason might be that bridges are not really all that important.
...In TNG anyway. Since when did a command decision made by the bridge crew affect the outcome of a battle?
There are worthier things to be buried within the hull for protection. Things that prolong the life of a starship in practice. Main engineering, or fuel tanks, or shield generators, or the computer cores. If burying the bridge within would mean leaving a computer core exposed, surely a sane starship engineer would refuse such a swap.
The crew is probably relatively superfluous to the operation of the ship, despite contrary pretenses. At least when it comes to combat. And the engineers notwithstanding.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by djewell (Member # 1111) on :
Perhaps the XO should go to another command center. That way, they would still be around if the Capt. and bridge crew were down.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Then again, the XO does a valuable job as part of the main command crew. If disastrous combat casualties really were an issue, then there should be a *complete* duplicate of the bridge crew standing by to take over. And, as I mentioned in another thread, probably not in the chain-of-command order of #1,3,5,7 on the main bridge and #2,4,6,8 on the secondary, but with #1-4 working together and #5-8 standing by.
Which, for all we know, may be exactly what Starfleet is doing. The secondary bridges of the Enterprises could very well be constantly manned, at least in combat. Not even "Brothers" or "Disaster" truly contradict that.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
That's a valid point. Just because Picard never mentions the backup command crew in the battle bridge, doesn't mean it isn't standard procedure for that post to be manned as soon as yellow or red alert is initiated.
Were there people already in the Battle Bridge the first time we saw it in Encounter at Farpoint?
In "Disaster", it's very possible that the back-up crew was going through a similar storyline, trying to save the ship, at the same time the main characters were doing their thing. In fact, with over 1000 people on board, I can't imagine their weren't other groups trying to figure out what was going on.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
In EaF the battle bridge was empty at first; the gang arrived via emergency turbo, and O'Brien popped in from the regular one.
Mark
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
"Best of Both Worlds, Part 2"...
Shelby to officers on main bridge: "Crusher, Carteno, Gleason, report to the Battle Bridge."
Further evidence of it not being crewed at all times. Did T'su and Solis go down from the main bridge with Geordi? Or were they already there? It's been a while since I saw "The Arsenal of Freedom"...
--Jonah
Posted by djewell (Member # 1111) on :
the Secondary Command Crew is probably in stand by just in case the situation becomes dire. But, thats why they have the emergency turbolift. Why didn't they go to the battle bridge more often during combat?
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Simple production stuff: 1) They would have had to fix the set up to it's Battle Bridge configuration from whatever background they had used it for the week before. 2) They felt it slowed the story down too much to have everyone drop everything, relocate, and seperate the ship. 3) Non-regular viewers wouldn't have understood what was happening.
For a "real" explanation, battle situations don't very often give you a chance to take a 3 or 4 minute pause to relocate half way across the ship and then reassess the situation. They had to deal with threats then and there.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Yup. Usually by standing still for 4 minutes and having a discussion while the enemy pounded on the Enterprise's hull, but hey, they're idiots anyway.
Posted by Cartmaniac (Member # 256) on :
And 4) because if you drag your ass to the safe & secure battle bridge during every little incident, you may as well take up permanent residence there and dump the main one altogether.
Posted by djewell (Member # 1111) on :
I these things later, but in "Cause and Effect," the Bozeman is right on top of them before Picard asks for suggestions! That always annoyed me. And I wonder why he went with Data's advice in the first place? Why couldn't they do both things at once?
Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: Simple production stuff: 1) They would have had to fix the set up to it's Battle Bridge configuration from whatever background they had used it for the week before. 2) They felt it slowed the story down too much to have everyone drop everything, relocate, and seperate the ship. 3) Non-regular viewers wouldn't have understood what was happening.
Which is crock, because you can "Captain's Log" it and say the ship has separated and the battle section is off to fight the bump-heads while the saurcer section and its kiddies go off for family hour viewing. It's the writers making up excuses for their inability to be creative within the show's limitations.
As to the battle bridge, if the show had used it more often, they'd have kept it as a standing set and the setup expense wouldn't have been so great. Honestly, if I were a budget minded producer I'd have instructed my designers to design the main bridge so that wild walls could be popped in effectively turning IT into the battle bridge. Say, imagine you only keep the rear stations, but the captain up where Worf normally is, and pull the Ops and Conn stations back into the horsehoe, and wall off the front of the room.
Posted by djewell (Member # 1111) on :
This is sort of a parallel to a discussion we were having over at SCN. You will notice that during the movies and some shows, there is a lot of chatter and not a lot getting done, at least not without some question of the Captains orders.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
The thing is, what does seperating the ship actually ADD to the show? Sure, there's the "we're saving the familys" part, but doing that every other week would just get boring, to the point where people would wonder why they bothered having families on there in the first place.
Posted by djewell (Member # 1111) on :
In fact, I wondered that even though they didn't seperate every week.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I think having families on board was GR's idea. I never liked it very rarely did it create a good story line. My guess is that most of the production staff felt the same way.
Though I was pleased that they stuck to it in Generations when we saw kiddies running all over the place.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Remember though, 2364 = fun and happy and peaceful time with fun and happiness and peace everywhere. Lets take families exploring! Let's meet alien races and love them. Let's let everyone get along spendidly.
Posted by CaptainMike20X6 (Member # 709) on :
who knew what 2365 would bring? lol
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Did you just lol in my presence?
Posted by djewell (Member # 1111) on :
Is that frowned upon?
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Only by the literate.
ZING!
But, I kid the kids.
Posted by Cartmaniac (Member # 256) on :
"Is that frowned upon?"
Well, no more than repeatedly saying "I rule" in everyone's presence.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Although it's not quite as bad as the unholy combination of Animal Hospital host and Chinese dictator that is ROLFLMAO.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
you mean "ROTFLMAO"? Cause that's high class, baby.
Don't forget the Utopian state that all alien cultures were in as well, which allowed them to be scantily clad females who had no problem with being easy. I.E. the populations of Angel One and Edo. Maybe the Enterprise was just exploring the Tramp Sector in season 1.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
The Angel One, uh, -ians, were not particularly easy. They were matriarchal! Riker probably spent the rest of the season sitting by the viewscreen because the Prime Minister said she'd call. But she never called.
Posted by CaptainMike20X6 (Member # 709) on :
omg I RULE lolz !! Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
She slept with Riker after knowing him for like 5 minutes. In my book, that's easy.
Posted by Ultra Magnus (Member # 239) on :
r00l.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: She slept with Riker after knowing him for like 5 minutes. In my book, that's easy.
For sexy you, it's easy. For most of the men here, it's second in their all time fantasy lists. One being the exact same thing, except that she also gives you all 7 DS9 DVD box sets.
Posted by Ultra Magnus (Member # 239) on :
I would jump Aban after twenty sexonds, max.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
"For most of the men here, it's second in their all time fantasy lists."
Now now, Liam, no need to depress everyone with such self-deprecating remarks. B)
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I didn't say there was anything *wrong* with easy women... it just seems odd to me that so many alien cultures were filled with them.
But then, Riker was a bit of a stud.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
It does take one to know one, sir.
Posted by CaptainMike20X6 (Member # 709) on :
there's a lot of flirting today.
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
Always remember that there is a thin line between flirting and sexual harrassment.
Rubbing your penis all over someone else is definitely sexual harrassment.
Thank you. This has been a Public Service Announcement brought to you by The Pompatus of Love.
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
I'm surprised nobody mentioned the obvious.. it's there for the view. Another plausible reason, would be if it could separate as a lifeboat.
The real answer is that nobody thought about it, just like using NCC for every ship in the fleet. In the 60s, ships had the bridge up top, but having the CIC down below wasn't as well known.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Well, I suspect the "real" reason had something to do with that neat opening shot in "The Cage." Which is to say that the bridge was placed where it was partly because Roddenberry wanted it there symbolically and partly because it opens up appealing visual options.
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
)![[Wink]](wink.gif)