How come I can download *and* review this episode before any of of you Americans do ?
- It's a timetravel episode. The return of Daniels and the entire Temporal War arch.
- Daniels is about as clueless as Archer. This Xindi War isn't 'supposed to happen'. Whatever caused it, 'hasn't affected us yet', Daniels says.
- Daniels sends Archer and T'Pol back in time to Detroit, Michigan, 2004, where three Reptillians from Archer's era have turned up. Apparently, getting clearance to send anyone else to that time would've have taken too much.... time.
- A lot of the 2004 scenes feel like The Voyage Home. Especially the clumsy wording of T'Pol brings back memories. Good stuff. T'Pol uses a Detroit city map of 2002, the closest she could find in the database.
- Fossil fuels apparently ran out in 2061.
- T'Pol delivers some pretty harsh criticism on our era. I think she grows some respect for what 22nd humans have achieved.
- Archer has bloodtype B-.
- Our crew tries to order something from a drive-through. Saving Earth from total destruction is a piece of cake compared to this
- The Reptillians pay some guy Loomis to abduct people for them. They make sure no-one sees them.
- One of the Reptillians desperately tries to release the virus they produced. He fails.
- Archer transport back to Enterprise to the exact same moment they left. Tucker is very confused.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Oh I get it.. tomorrow's Thanksgiving.. you're probably all with your family now Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
*reads post*
If the episode is as silly as I think it is, then I wish I was with my family. They can pat me on the back while I throw up. Posted by WizArtist (Member # 1095) on :
Perhaps Captain Proton will show up.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Well.. it wasn't as silly as it sounds from the above points. Basically, the Xindi have somehow managed to travel to 2004, want to collect samples of all 8 bloodtypes to make and release a biotoxin. Archer manages to stop them, Xindi try to spread unfinished toxin anyway, Archer prevents that too and beams everything back to NX-01. So they now have three dead Xindi, a whole bunch of Xindi equipment *and* the toxin on board.
But, as has become usual in the Temporal War episodes, very little is explained (the characters are about as clueless as the viewer). Although I'm left wondering if TPTB actually *had* an explanation for themselves, or if they're just making stuff up along the way.
Posted by Fleet-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
I'd say everything is being made up as the show goes along.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I liked it. It was'nt as good as last week's but it furthered the Xindi storyline nicely and had some really funny moments. That damn dog in the car was great! Archer jumped out of his skin!
Lots of new Xindi tech to study for Trip, Phlox and T'Pol too!
Man! Could that kidnapper have been any scummier? Looks like Enterprise has really pegged how to make their villians unlikable. A couple of things: I think it was four Xindi, not three. You guys see the genesis-style virus container? Kewel.
I dig the retro look to the Xindi tech: it's 1960's looking, so it must be more advanced than starfleets sleek steel paneling and ergonomic designs.
Porthos once again displays his spacial/temporal anomaly sense.
Archer is still in character and still willing to do whatever it takes to save Earth. Good right hook too. T'Pol shows her superior Vulcan srength and willingness to shoot a smoker in the head: it's the logical thing to do. I concur.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
-- T'Pol specifically says that the NX-01 is currently 90 light-years away from Earth.
-- The Xindi were using a "neutron power source" of some kind.
-- Could the timeline get any more frelled up? Now they're talking about "terrorists" in 2004, which is obviously a reference to "our" timeline. Though I suppose it could coexist with the "Future's End" timeline. I'm going to have to think up a way to blame the entire "Enterprise" timeline hoohah on Braxton, now...
-- Love the part at the end, with the kidnapper rambling on about "lizard people" and "ray guns"... he gets what he deserves, at least!
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
Bin Laden is not a Eugenics type guy... he's got 50 some kids IIRC, no reproductive control there.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
Hmmmm. So we have the original TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY timeline which seems to be the same as ours till 1990ish, when we get the Eugenics wars, but then the normal TNG/DS9/VOY cumulating the the 30th(?) century Braxton and timeships. Then we have the Borg and First Contact messing up the timeline past Cochrane leading to Enterprise and ending with Daniel's Federation (which seems to lack timeships). Then we also have a second change with the Xindii war, precipitated supposedly by FutureGuy, and different from Daniel's timeline. (which is being protected by some Millenium-style slow propogation of timeline changes)
Well, at the very least, even for those that weren't convinced that all of Enterprise is an alternate timeline, at least we seem to have on-air evidence than 3rd season onwards is going to be completely alternate.
Also, while using a tricorder to unlock car doors, track enemy movements (finally), and break into ATMS is rather nifty and sure beats pawning off glasses for money...while the first two are obvious, I wonder how the third would work. While some modern cars have remote locks, I don't believe ATMs have receivers of any sort, thus the tricorder would have to directly tap into the electronics in some way.
*rant* What, the lizard Xindi couldn't have gone further back and stomped on a few amino acids struggling to form rRNA? What kinda crummy virus relies on blood types? Why are the resources of Daniel's "Federation" so limited they can only send one guy back to monitor arguably, one of the most critical periods of Federation history...and be forced to send back Archer and T'Pol instead of an experienced team? *end-rant*
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Also, why didn't Daniels send Archer and T'Pol back two months further, so that they could have more time to stop the Xindi. As it is, they barely managed it in time.
This is why Trek shouldn't do time travel. Especially recently. The writers obviously don't understand it.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
At the risk of talking about the least important thing ever, I never got the impression that Archer's bloodtype was actually the one they were looking for. I mean, what, he's not going to be able to sneak in because he's A+ or something? "Well, I would have tried to save the Earth, but they were clearly only looking for two specific kinds of people, and I was neither, and I wouldn't want to break the rules."
I liked that, uh, Loomis' Cunning Knife Plan failed miserably. Because, like, I was thinking, hey, isn't T'Pol both way stronger than him plus in possession of (largely unexplored) covert ops training?
Also, it's a little late in the game to complain about the logic of time travel. Being able to move in more than one direction temporally would be nonsensical to an observer, almost by definition. I don't think you can tell a "realistic" story about time travel. Not to us, anyway. (Though, recommendation: Michael Swanwick's novel Bones of the Earth comes pretty close, in my opinion, especially in regards to showing how weird things might get when you start treating next Tuesday or 1927 the same way you treat Second Avenue.)
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
*notes author and title*
The Ep: Not very convincing time-travel logic. I would have been impressed if when Archer and T'Pol returned, Trip didn't recognize the Xindi bodies or something. The nature of the weapon is never really explored except that it's "biological." If the Xindi have time-travelling tech, we start getting into Terminator-esque paradoxes.
In RE: ATMs: so this is rationalizing, but the tricorder would likely be able to connect to a cellular phone network would would be connected to the internet which would probably be connected to the ATM network at some stage which would presumably allow them to make it fork over the money.
So there's a lot of unthought out science in it, but I still enjoyed the episode. I liked T'Pol shooting the guy. I liked some of the acting. And then I really liked the payoff with Loomis blathering about ray-guns and the aliens, etc.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Stoopid VCR.
I did notice one thing so far - Archer notes that the last time they fought the Reptilians, the stun setting had no effect. I guess that explains the armor...
Mark
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
With regards to Timeships and Timetravel in general: Time travel is likely closely monotored by all sides in the future Cold war so it's concievable that the Xindi were dropped into an era where no one was "looking" at that moment of their departure. Timeships may be readily available in Daniels' time but may not be used in Enterprise's era without esclating the conflict. It is a "COLD" war after all. Besides, Daniels' could have been operating from a Timeship for all we know: Just something more advanced than the Relativity in that they dont have to take the subject onto the ship to transport them elsewhwen/where.
Might be nice to learn (in season 7) that daniels' was a commander or something on a future Enterprise....
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"I would have been impressed if when Archer and T'Pol returned, Trip didn't recognize the Xindi bodies or something."
Why not? Trip has seen Xindi lizards before, hasn't he? I mean, they did invade the ship at one point. And I'm sure everyone has seen pictures, anyway.
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
Archer didn't finish the sentence about fossil fuels... I'm not certain, the way he is talking about it, that we run out in 2061 or we stop using it in 2061.
If a Tricorder can send out an EMP that is "tuned" right then it can work on an ATM.
End of the episode was lame, obviously trek writers aren't cop writers... they wouldn't have left the car there like that.
Oh and TOS breaks away from our timeline back in the 1960's when they launch orbital missile platforms--- that whole Soviet Union thing adds to the difference in timelines as well.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
I enjoyed it. Archer and T'Pol have to be about the most clued-in time travellers in all Trek, given how easily they got themselves sorted out.
At first glance I thought the Xindi pistols were re-uses of the Reman pistols, but I don't think they were. I'll confirm it when I do me some cappin' tomorrow.
So, either the Xindi War doesn't happen in the 'proper' Trek timeline, or Daniel's 30th-century is an entirely different future from the 'proper' one that follows on from 29th-century with Starfleet timeships etc. I suspect the former, and since the Xindi homeworld has already been destroyed in the past by humans from the future, I'm betting that it'll be Archer & Co. who'll maybe prevent it happening in the first place.
So we could have this massive re-set whereupon the original menace from Future Guy and the Suliban will re-assert itself. . .
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by J: Oh and TOS breaks away from our timeline back in the 1960's when they launch orbital missile platforms--- that whole Soviet Union thing adds to the difference in timelines as well.
Oh, please God, not this again.
Posted by Joshua Bell (Member # 327) on :
Re: 2061 and fossil fuels
Archer never completes his sentence. The gist of the conversation is: T'Pol: "Didn't your people know they were running out of fossil fuels in this time?" Archer: "They had for about 30 years. But it wasn't until 2061 that..."
Interesting to speculate on what comes next since 2061 is such a suspicious year:
- the fuel ran out and that led to World War III - we developed fusion (OR) antimatter power and stopped
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Joshua Bell: Re: 2061 and fossil fuels
Archer never completes his sentence. The gist of the conversation is: T'Pol: "Didn't your people know they were running out of fossil fuels in this time?" Archer: "They had for about 30 years. But it wasn't until 2061 that..."
"....the giant Megadues' destroyed civilization and drank all the fuel."
Cool! I see a whole CapComms right here!
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN:
"I would have been impressed if when Archer and T'Pol returned, Trip didn't recognize the Xindi bodies or something."
Why not? Trip has seen Xindi lizards before, hasn't he? I mean, they did invade the ship at one point. And I'm sure everyone has seen pictures, anyway.
Well the idea was that by going back in time and thwarting this Xindi plot, Archer and T'Pol nix some horribly small tiny, yet vastly important event which means the Xindi never come to Earth and blow shit up. And so Trip has never seen a Xindi before.
Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
Oh God, not another time-travelling episode in America.
One of these days the Space-Time Continuum will realise that it doesn't have to keep sending people back to the USA.
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
Heh, actually, it WOULD be interesting to see the Xindi trying the same thing, in Bagdhad or Shanghi.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
...Thus giving Bashir, Kim, Hoshi, or any of the minority characters something to do besides be the subject of expository "what is this, sir?" dialogue.
Mark
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by Harry: Basically, the Xindi have somehow managed to travel to 2004, want to collect samples of all 8 bloodtypes to make and release a biotoxin. Archer manages to stop them, Xindi try to spread unfinished toxin anyway, Archer prevents that too and beams everything back to NX-01.
So, umm, having yet not seen the episode yet, let me get this straight; these guys are kidnapping people to get different blood types in order to create a biotoxin.
The only comment I have at this point: 'why not just visit a "blood bank"?'
And why *Detroit* ?! Ah well, that's the closest the Trek world will ever get to where I live. Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Hey, I'm still waiting for them to attack Canada. In the grand scheme of things, this country is way too nice for any aliens to attack.
They probably didn't got the blood bank because they needed fresh samples and probably other biological data from the donor. They were extracting blood on a regular basis from the victims... Also, donor blood isn't the best way to learn about white blood cells (useful knowledge if you're designing a virus), platelet count, and other blood factors.
Note that they say that with only 6 of 8 blood types, the virus will be able to kill "only" 75% of the population. They seem to omit the fact that AB+ and B- blood, the types they had yet to go, accounts for only 6% of the population, according to this!
Mark
Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
I personally have one complain: They ended up in Detroit, Michigan, in near future, right?
Then where was RoboCop?
And those cops were dressed all wrong and used wrong cars! Man, what is wrong with Berman and Braga?! Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
And three police cars seemed a bit like overkill for one loony.
Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
Because at the end of such movies there are is always obscene amount of police Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
But seriously now.. it seems like every alien race and it's neighbour has visited Earth at some time. Are we really that interesting? Preservers, Vulcans, Gary Seven, El-Aurians and possibly even frikkin space-whales.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: ...Thus giving Bashir, Kim, Hoshi, or any of the minority characters something to do besides be the subject of expository "what is this, sir?" dialogue.
Except, of course, Bashir had a proper character. And, er, was English.
Posted by WizArtist (Member # 1095) on :
Why do I get the feeling that at the end of this story/timeline that Archer will wakeup like Bobby Ewing and it will all have been a dream. Or it will be like the Krenum timeship, where a whole year of Voyager history was erased with one big bang?
This is what happens when you let producers and writers sip the Romulan ale while coming up with story plots.
Posted by leuckinc (Member # 729) on :
frikkin space-whales
lol! What is the true story behind them?
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
My opinion on any reset like YoH or as you suggestion possibly this season of Enterprise or even the series.
--- Thick Scottish Accent ---
It's called crap, me lad... CRAP! One hundred percent, straight from the pooper, into the crapper... CRAP!
--- End Accent ---
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Harry: And three police cars seemed a bit like overkill for one loony.
Kidding right? When I got pulled over for driving without my headlights on (a common mistake) no less that FOUR police cars decided to encircle my car within five minutes my being pulled over by one patrol car.
Besides, the cops had gotten the tip on the victim's location, found the lab set-up and then doubtlessly called for backup: it was some strange shit goin' down and cops rely on the "safety in numbers" principle dispite the shit hollywood buddy films might lead us to believe. Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
quote:Originally posted by Harry: ...and possibly even frikkin space-whales.
Yep, frikkin space whales with frikkin laser beams on their heads!
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Lasers in their.. Uh. That must have been in the SE.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Or it will be like the Krenum timeship, where a whole year of Voyager history was erased with one big bang?"
It may have been a year on the ship, but it all happened in a single two-part episode. It's not as if they suddenly said "Okay, everything since episode #3 never happened now." or something.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Okay, finally caught an airing of this show, pretty interesting.
"Burgerland"...anyone else notice "have it your way" comment after the-actor-formerly-known-as-Lovok offered T'pol some grease fries? Those crazy writers!
Anyway, I still find 2004 Detroit to be an odd place to harvest blood types. Why didn't they just disguise themselves as a doctor and nurse and travel back to 19th Century San Franscisco and use the people of that time period and blame it on...oh wait, that's been done before....
As far as the so called police car overkill, they sure were in and out of there fast. Typically they like to stand around and kick the tires for a while, call in a wrecker to tow the guys car (and possible evidence) away and so on...obviously not in this case. Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Bad part of town: Boddiker's gang rules there.
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
Cops don't like him...
So he don't like cops... dumbass.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
No "I'll buy that for a dollar!" (apparently the be-all and end-all of early-21st-century Detroit humour) wisecrack from Loomis either.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
?![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)