OK, I've been on my computer for about three solid days rewriting my site. In between moments of fury at HTML, I began thinking about the weapons in Trek.
Specifically, we have seen several weapons used that have basicly the same end result; vaporization of the target. Examples:
TOS: I remember the episode where Kirk Nukes Roc the android. ST2: Terrell vapes himself ST3: Kruge vapes Lieutenant "Lucky Shot" ST6: Valeris vapes a kitchen pot
And I know there are a lot more. What I am wondering is this, How does it know what to vaporize and when to stop? Does it envelop the target on contact and then dematerialize it? If so, then where does the effect stop? Why wouldn't it vaporize the ground or deck the target was standing on? If you are going to say that it chain reacts with what it hits and what that is touching, then there should still be the boots and jock strap etc. that wasn't hit by the beam.
I would think it more likely that these weapons would vaporize a hole straight through at the point of contact. Yes, I realize that it is cleaner and cheaper FX wise to just have it all go away, but if you are going to have that happen then you need a viable explanation for the effect.
I know this is nit-picky stupid but I was up REAL late and the mind does funny things after too much HTML. At least I haven't bolded, all caps, and italicized every other word in this post! Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Tech forum, no?
Mark
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Sure. Why not.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
I have a horrible suspicion I'm supposed to know the answer to these questions. . . Although as far as I know the only in-depth writing on how phasers work comes from the TNGTM, which describes how the phaser beam vapourises things, but is reticent on how how much it does. Soemthing to do with the actual settings dictates how much matter is vapourised, perhaps Starfleet officers have to memorise log tables saying how much of any particular material will be vapourised by a specific setting. The only baseline given in the TNGTM is for volumes of solid rock.
In one of the new DS9 anthologies (Phrophecy and Change) Dr Bashier mentions that Starfleet removed the "vaporization" setting on all it's phasers "years ago" because they found that the vaporize setting was being used all too often and they decided that it made killing too easy and antiseptic.
Explains why weapons like the one Kevis Faja (sp?)pointed at Data are illeagal by TNG's era.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Yeah but Riker was able to vaporize that genetically-engineered Travelers(?) assassin in that episode featuring the Acamarians ...
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
Yeah... the vaporize setting is still easily accessible... I think training and regulations have kinda worked it's regular use out.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Malnurtured Snay: Yeah but Riker was able to vaporize that genetically-engineered Travelers(?) assassin in that episode featuring the Acamarians ...
Ryker really jacked his phaser waaay past the normal settings though. Mabye something inside her just cumbusted? Too much hairspray would be my guess.
Even Picard and Ryker firing on poor ol' Remmick didint entirely vaporise him. It was messy though. Posted by WizArtist (Member # 1095) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon:
quote:Originally posted by Malnurtured Snay: Yeah but Riker was able to vaporize that genetically-engineered Travelers(?) assassin in that episode featuring the Acamarians ...
Ryker really jacked his phaser waaay past the normal settings though. Mabye something inside her just cumbusted? Too much hairspray would be my guess.
Even Picard and Ryker firing on poor ol' Remmick didint entirely vaporise him. It was messy though.
Ryker had Tim Allen's phaser. ar-arrr arrrrrrrr
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Who is this Ryker of whom you speak?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
It's a easy to solve codename.
Or I need sleep more than money right now...
Posted by Treknophyle (Member # 509) on :
Or perhaps there are now more intermediate settings on the phaser now.
Instead of stun, kill and vaporize, we now have mildly annoy, stun, lightly toast, grevious injury, and vaporize.
BTW: I thought that Kevis Faja's weapon was outlawed because of the suffering it caused the victim.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Vaporize doesnt cause suffering? How could they know? Would it be better to die like Lt Munoz(?) with a non-coagulating belly wound over a few days (DS9-The Ship)or to be incinerated by Faja's little ray-gun?
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Another vaping - Bev Crusher in that ep with the shields that allow you to fly inside the sun - zapped the guy once, he got a hole straight through his torso; upped the settings and zapped him again, he disintigrated. Unless that was something about his species' physical makeup. . .
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I hate you for making me recall that episode.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
I must shamefully admit that I once bothered to find out which setting Riker used in "Vengeance Factor". And that I have since forgotten. But it wasn't all that high - I think he started at three green LEDs or something, upped to five, and then to eight (which is quite correct for the lowest vaporizing setting, according to the TNG TM).
There was some vaporizing being done with the Type 1 phasers in early TNG, too. Like when Riker was given Q powers: he vaped the "animal thing" that bayonetted Wesley (Or did Worf do that? My memory is definitely going...). That must have been at setting eight, too, since the type 1's supposedly don't go higher than that.
And of course, multiple times we saw a type 2 jacked up to level 16, but not fired. Riker in the fantasy in... Gawd, my memory IS going. The one with the insane asylum, and Beverly's play. lily in "First Contact". Worf actually used the setting in "Chain of Command", and it did vaporize lots of rock. Not heat and melt and boil it, since the heroes touched the rock walls immediately afterwards, but cleanly make it disappear in a puff of VFX.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
@Timo: The episode with Riker in the insane asylum (well, kidnapped actually) is called "Frame of Mind".
And @Treknophyle: It's Kivas Fajo! Ah, never mind...
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
"I hate you for making me recall that episode."
Suspicions!
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"And of course, multiple times we saw a type 2 jacked up to level 16, but not fired."
I believe O'Brien set his phaser at level 16 when he was going to kill himself in that DS9 ep (yeah, I can't be bothered to look up titles, either).
[ January 19, 2004, 09:52 PM: Message edited by: TSN ]
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
I've never seen "The Vengeance Factor," I now realise. I thought the only TNG ep I'd yet to see was "The High Ground," the one they only show here if they remove the Northern Ireland references - and in fact I did finally get to see that one recently. Gosh, to think that problems in Ireland once seemed so important. . .
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Oh, and that DS9 ep is "Hard Time." 8)
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
The LED rows on the phaser props are sometimes a bit misleading. When you light up the whole row of eight greens, it may look as if the row of eight reds is lit as well. At least on the old TNG type 2 props... Did O'Brien really intend to take the station with him to the Other Side? Or did he key in "level 8", which is enough for a nice clean getaway without a charred corpse to scare Keiko and kids?
Both the "Frame of Mind" and ST:FC cases of level 16 overkill were said to hold the potential for Massive Destruction. IIRC, Bashir didn't comment on this when disarming O'Brien in "Hard Time". Not that this means anything one way or the other, really.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by Timo: There was some vaporizing being done with the Type 1 phasers in early TNG, too. Like when Riker was given Q powers: he vaped the "animal thing" that bayonetted Wesley (Or did Worf do that? My memory is definitely going...). That must have been at setting eight, too, since the type 1's supposedly don't go higher than that.
Makes sense . . . TOS Type 1's were vaping things left and right. McCoy vs. the Mugato comes to mind, along with the Klingon of "Friday's Child" who vaped a couple of guys with Kirk's, and also shot at Kirk with dynamite-esque results.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
There are definitely 8 segments visible in this image:
Yet he appears to set it that way using the beam-width setting on the right, not the beam-intensity setting on the left. . . Or is that just how it looks in this cap? Been a while since I saw the ep.
. . . Which is how it also is on the Master Replicas boomerang phaser - the first 8 settings are on the top, the second 8 are on the bottom. There obviously wasnt't much point in having a beam-width setting on the replica if there ain't no beam!
Bizarrely, the plastic cover over the lights is segmented into two rows of twelve. . . But it's still a totally cool item that I really recommend if you have the wherewithall. Just don't buy from MR, they go for half that on eBay or from any reputable MR dealer if you're lucky. 8)
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