Okay, I suppose we shouldn't be too surprised, considering how the five Xindi species have been at odds before -- a dependence on one of the other species for space travel would be suicidal as far as power among the others would go. But how the heck would you build a spaceship under water?
By definition, fire is impossible. I suppose that "importing" some specially-designed equipment from dry land would be possible -- if there were sufficient power, some kind of torch for welding and all the many other related jobs would probably work. But again, that would create some important reliance on the land-based species, which wouldn't be a good thing.
I briefly thought that maybe the Xindi-Aquatics evolved from dry land and returned to live in the water -- perhaps being amphibious at one point. But that requires evolution spanning millions or billions of years, and the Xindi certainly don't seem that ancient a race.
Any thoughts for how the heck this might be contorted around to be possible?
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
I'm of the opinion that Aquatic ships would have had to be designed based on other Xindi tech - no way they'd ever be able to acheive spaceflight independently. Water is friggin HEAVY, man!
Man, hull breaches would really suck without forcefield tech...
Mark
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
"Man, hull breaches would really suck without forcefield tech... "
No no, hull breaches don't suck, they blow. Doesn't matter if it's air or water. And get yer minds outta the gutter, that's not what I meant!
Anyway, yeah, I hadn't even thought about the mass of water. That must be murder to propel, even in space! Here's hoping that they at least make the ship look a bit more massive, bulky, and with extra-large engines...
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
on the other hand they'd never be left wanting for fuel.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
It's possible that the aquatic Xindi use some kind of water-filled encounter suits on their ships to keep down the water mass. I'd imagine one large, water-filled communal area on board wouldnt make the ship too massive though.
As for evolution....I'm still of the opinion that ALL the Xindi are engineered by the race that madde the Spheres.
Posted by WizArtist (Member # 1095) on :
Who says they "BUILD" them? They could GROW them as a species was doing in a Piers Anthony book. Afterall, think of the benefits of aquatic spacecraft.
1. No need for artificial gravity. 2. No need for acceleration dampering or stasis fields. 3. Fuel and atmosphere in one handy ship. 4. Water acting as radiation shielding. 5. Structurally stronger do to ocean pressures.
You could possibly use thermal vents on the ocean floor as a source for melding materials. Possibly even a source for dilithium or equivalent power supplies. The ship could be highly biological with special enzymes for coatings much like coral and honeycombed for structural integrity. Perhaps their tech isn't silicon based at all but, and with apologies to Species 8572, "Fluidic" in nature.
After all, not all technologies must be based in what we interpret as the sciences. As I believe PsyLiam posted somewhere: "Any technology sufficiently advanced will appear as magic" I think the same would be true for any tech that doesn't operate along conventional lines that we have developed.
See: Iconians, how to build a Stargate without a Stargate.
Posted by WizArtist (Member # 1095) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: As for evolution....I'm still of the opinion that ALL the Xindi are engineered by the race that madde the Spheres.
Would that be "The Tall Man" and his midget monks? Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"No no, hull breaches don't suck, they blow."
Regardless of what was stated in "The Naked Now" (?), the reality is that they do both, because it's all one and the same.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
That scene is one of TNG's best bloopers. I think they shot that six times because Spiner and Frakes kept losing it and giggling.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Er, why's it a blooper?
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Not the scene itself, but the fun they had shooting it.
Mark
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Er, why's it a blooper?"
"I think they shot that six times because Spiner and Frakes kept losing it and giggling."
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
From the description of Archer's encounter with the Water Xindii - reminds me of "The Abyss".
Also - I don't know if anyone here has noted how the Water Xindii sound like the "Whale Probe"? Or even the one from "Think Tank".
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN:
"Er, why's it a blooper?"
"I think they shot that six times because Spiner and Frakes kept losing it and giggling."
That's not a blooper. A blooper is a mistake seen on screen. By the definition I have just made up.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
That kinda kills the point of a blooper reel doesn't it?
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Quiet, you.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Dick Clark and Ed McMahon would argue with you.
The term you're looking for is "snafu". Or perhaps even "mistake".
Posted by Woodside Kid (Member # 699) on :
Getting back on track, why wouldn't a water-filled ship need dampening systems? Is water somehow immune to inertia?
I've also missed a couple of episodes due to my VCR dying on me. Are the aquatic Xindi water or air breathers? Either way would make for an interesting life support design (imagine trying to oxygenate a starship-sized fish tank!).
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Well, the whole point is that water cushions objects that are suspended in it. So water on a space ship would be nothing more than a natural IDF, basically.
Not sure if it could realistically provide sufficient force against the kind of acceleration that's involved in Trek ships (i.e. 1/4th the speed of light, etc), but it's still a possibility.
Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mucus: That kinda kills the point of a blooper reel doesn't it?
Indeed. There are bloopers that make it into episodes (Kirk's phaser falling off his belt in Space Seed) and those that end up in the Goody Reel, (Kirk, "Mister Spack hahaha").
Posted by Bond, James Bond (Member # 1127) on :
You can weld underwater using Magnesium Torches so it's entirely possible for the Xindi Aquatics to construct vessels in the normal fashion except of course they would be filled with water. They could shape metals in volcanic vents.
As for alternate methods someone already mentioned genetically engineering a bio-ship.
They could have discovered or created some material that is maleable under normal circumstances and can be combined molecularly with another substance but when the right catalyst is applied it hardens stronger then steel or tritanium or whatever the metal flavor of the month is in the future. Sort of like Play-Do that hardens into whatever shape you choose.
Or perhaps they put on environment suits and hover packs and construct there vessels out of the water though that would seem to be time and cost prohibitive to me.
One method could be to have an inflatable double-walled membrane that you keep pressurized while you build the interiors of the ship inside it using robots or by going in with spacesuits. Once you've constructed the interior you fill the layer between the two walls of the membrane with some non-pourous substance that hardens, like a better non-air pourous version of concrete. It's basically like a hard-shelled derigible in space.
Maybe they've evolved psionic abilities to manipulate objects though the fact that they have manipulating arms and hands would seem to counteract the nescessity for that. But if they were genetically engineered by an older race they may have both.
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)