Hi! I'm trying to decide on the sizes of these to starship classes. I could use some input on this. Here's what I have.
STEAMRUNNER-CLASS
243.84 m (David Stipes) 328 m (Dominion Wars Web Site) 355 m (Others Star Trek Sites) 365.54 m (Ship Recognition Manual, Vol.1) 375 m (Star Trek RPG: Starfleet Operatios Manual)
SABER-CLASS
160 m (Star Trek RPG: Starfleet Operations Manual) 172 m (Others Star Trek Sites) 172.77 m (Ship Recognition Manual Manual, Vol.1) 190.50 m (David Stipes) 364.77 m (DS9 Technical Manual)
and I'm not sure the sizes form the Star Trek Encyclopedia.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
The Saber is about 172 meters -makes sense from the windows and onscreen evidence- it's a small ship. The DS9TM length on the Saber was just a placeholder but I guess no one caught the error when the book was edited. Not the only error in the ship section. The Saber's plethora of ( pinata's!) lifeboats adds to the confusion though. It could have lifeboats for it's maximum evac. compliment, I suppose.
The Steamrunner has to be close to 360 meters long if those lifeboats are the same size as those on the Enterprise E. Besides, we see a Steamrunner eat it in FC from a long ways away- a 243 meter ship would be a wasp next to the cube and not noticable that way.
Who or what is "David Stipes" and where did he get his figures from?
Posted by MirrorCaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
stipes is a VFX director for (was it ds9??) trek, he has the dubious honor of having decided the size relationships of models when they appeared onscreen.
i think there's a lot of Defiant-length arguers that want to talk to him.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I have a few choice moments I'd like speak with him about as well.
Like the teeny-tiny Nebula in the opening credits or the impossibly huge scale-up to make the Regula model into Starbase 375.
He's also the one that scaled the Dominion Battleship as both smaller than a Vor'Cha and over 5 kilometers long in WYLB?!?
Yeah, be sure to use this guy's measurements on anything you want to look right.
Posted by Captain Boh (Member # 1282) on :
while we are on the topic, does anyone know how big the Mars Perimiter Defence ships are supposed to be?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
hmmmm...good question. There's nothing to scale them against: they looked no larger than 100 meters (at most).
I dont think they even kept those models: they were only made from leftover Typhoon submarine kits (parts of wich make up the Challenger).
Posted by Captain Boh (Member # 1282) on :
While I was looking I found that they were reused in Unification's Qualor II scene and as the Soliton Wave Rider, so they must have had it around for awile. Was there anything to scale the Soliton Rider against? I don't remember the scene well enough
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Hmmm....the waverider might have been a modification on the original models.
You know, I had tried to forget that episode. NOw you've ruined everything!
Posted by Captain Boh (Member # 1282) on :
But that episode as the Geordi's ironic comment about witnessing the first warp flight, how could you try and forget THAT! Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
The Geordi?
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
I think his entire post is best forgotten...
Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :
quote:Originally posted by MirrorCaptainMike: stipes is a VFX director for (was it ds9??) trek, he has the dubious honor of having decided the size relationships of models when they appeared onscreen.
i think there's a lot of Defiant-length arguers that want to talk to him.
David Stipes along with Gary Hutzel were the two VFX Supervisors that worked on the later seasons of DS9. Stipes also acted as VFX Supervisor on at least some episodes of Voyager.
Regarding the Defiant, both Stipes and Hutzel have quoted it's length as 560' (171m). I believe Hutzel was the one who originally came up with that length.
As for the original question: I'd say the Steamrunner-class is about 335m and the Saber is around 180m.
Posted by Captain Boh (Member # 1282) on :
I refuse to be held accountable for my typing at any time after midnight, my keyboard requires full attention to work right
Posted by SwSmith (Member # 1319) on :
Here's what the Star Trek the Magazine said about the Saber-class. "The entire ship is a similar size to the saucer section of the Galaxy-class starship. Vol.1, Issue 23
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
If I calculated it correctly, the saucer of the Galaxy is ~360 meters; much much too long for the Sabre....
Posted by SwSmith (Member # 1319) on :
Ok! I just did a print out of the Saber & Galaxy-class and compared tho two. With the Saber at 365 meters, the escape hatches are the same size as the Glaxy-class, so the question is, why can't the Sabe-class be this big. I guest the only way will know is to ask Alex Jaegar from ILM who designed the ship.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Because everyone seems fixated on the idea that it must be Defiant sized.
Posted by Nim the Fanciful (Member # 205) on :
The Saber class has been seen exactly two times; First Contact and "Sacrifice of Angels", and the last time so briefly you'd think the VFX crew were intentionally pissing us off. Has any starfleet class been seen even less than that? That is, just one episode or movie?
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
All those kitbashes in "A Time to Stand" (DS9) and the ships from Insurrection. Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Has any starfleet class been seen even less than that? That is, just one episode or movie?"
The Norway.
Posted by Nim the Fanciful (Member # 205) on :
And no small wonder, it being arguably uglier than the Curry class. It looks like a 1982 Saab, the Norway does.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
"Has any starfleet class been seen even less than that? That is, just one episode or movie?"
How about both? The refit Excelsior... Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
My lovely New Orleans.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
What length for the Defiant did we sorta come to a consensus about here? 150m? If the defiant is 170m isn't that longer than The NX-Enterprise?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
The Sabre and Steamruunner were seen in:
First Contact A Call to Arms Favour The Bold Sacrifce of Angels Tears of the Prophets and the episode where the fleet gets decimated by the Breen Weapon. (stock footage) What Yo Leave Behind (I think).
I also have the two of them stationed next to a Akira Class in an establishing shot around DS9 from sometime in Season 6 or 7.
Oh and they were both in "Relativity" [VOY]
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
"The Changing Face of Evil", IIRC. RIP, Defiant.
Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: What length for the Defiant did we sorta come to a consensus about here? 150m? If the defiant is 170m isn't that longer than The NX-Enterprise?
I personally consider the Defiant to be 560', but I think most people here believe in 120m. The NX-01 is officially 225m long.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by SwSmith: Ok! I just did a print out of the Saber & Galaxy-class and compared tho two. With the Saber at 365 meters, the escape hatches are the same size as the Glaxy-class, so the question is, why can't the Sabe-class be this big. I guest the only way will know is to ask Alex Jaegar from ILM who designed the ship.
While the lifeboats match the Galaxy's at that size, the windows dont. Also, the window's spacing would be really strange at that size.
180(ish) meters looks cooler as well.
A fellow modeler (Starcrafts) makes a 1400th Sabre model based off the actual CGI from First Contact and he's got it pegged at 180 meters (that's good enough for me) and besides, I already have three lovely 2500th scale models built of the Sabre at the smaller size!
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
What do you mean 'the actual CGI'? Did he get access to the original Mesh/Sabre pic? or from the movie First Contact?
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"What length for the Defiant did we sorta come to a consensus about here?"
None. Nor will we ever, I've little doubt.
Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
What do you mean, none?
We come to a consensus that Defiant size is "small", and its length is "short" Posted by Toadkiller (Member # 425) on :
Ok - we've figured out how many feet the Saber is, but how many meters long is the Sabre?
Posted by Fleet-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
I never knew so many people in this room are size queens.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: What do you mean 'the actual CGI'? Did he get access to the original Mesh/Sabre pic? or from the movie First Contact?
Yes: he has shadowy "contacts" and managed to get the CGI panels for the Steamrunner, Excelsior, Sabre and Akira to use as a template for making the physical models. Back then, he was contracted to make masters for a "Paramount store" but the idea fell apart and he decided to go into business for himself.
That's the story I was told at least.
All I know is that I managed to get the Akira panel scan to make my 2500th physical model accurate as possible.
Lookie- two of my pretty Sabres are there as well!
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Very nice - you got the 'panels'??? Which are what exactly??? For the Sabre too?
I guess the person never got the panels for the Norway?
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Weren't the entire Norway files corrupted soon after FC?
Posted by Wes (Member # 212) on :
Easy, get Mojo to measure the actual CG models. You cant deny that.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: Very nice - you got the 'panels'??? Which are what exactly??? For the Sabre too?
I guess the person never got the panels for the Norway?
All I got is the panels for the Akira- just black silouettes that were used to make vinyl masters for the 1400th model.
I dont have anything on the other ships.
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
I think we can safely ignore the statement comparing the Saber to the Galaxy saucer. It's just the typical way how the magazine paraphrases specs - this time the definitely wrong specs in the DS9TM.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Ug. I was just skimming the STTM issue where they attempted a scale comparison chart of starfleet ships. Terrible.
Not only dont their sizes make sense from the scale of the lifeboats and windows, many of the ships themslves are wildlt inaccurrate (the Bozeman and Saratoga in particular).
I guess they just did not have access to anyone who might know.
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