While researching the Federation Tac-Fighter, I noticed a few interesting things from "What You Leave Behind"[DS9-7]. What really caught my eye, though, is in the following caps:
Now, if you look at those small ships flying five-abreast at the bottom of the screen, you'll note a few things.
Screenshot 1. They are significantly smaller than the Vor'Cha, as seen when one flies in front of the Vor'Cha, obscuring part of its profile. Eyeballing it and not accounting for range, I would say that the shot limits them to no more than 1/3rd a Vor'Cha's length.
Screenshot 2. They are smaller than a Bird-of-Prey, as well, since one passes in front of the BoP at the bottom of the screen. Eyeballing it and not accounting for range, I'd give it no more than two-thirds the length of a BoP.
So what the hell is that?
Note the symmetry which Breen ships lack, as a rule. That precludes us from concluding that they are Breen warships subjected to a Classic Stipesian Screw-Up(tm).
Could they be a surprise re-use of the Romulan runabout from "In the Pale Moonlight"[DS9-6]?
I just don't see it. Extrapolating a bit further from the visuals, these vessels seem to have a somewhat boxy-curvy forward section with two booms on the rear which feature green-glowing nacelles.
But perhaps that's extrapolating too far. Or maybe not. Though I don't have DS9-7 in full DVD quality, I can take what we've got and run with it to produce the following zoom-in of one of these mystery ships at closest approach:
This gives us a possible small wing for the nacelle, but extending beyond it. Further, there doesn't seem to be a runabout-esque central rectangle . . . instead, the play of light seems to suggest two "walls" on the side, with a central box in between.
Given the green nacelles and greenish hue to the hull, it is most likely Romulan. However, it could theoretically be an older Klingon design from their green-glow days. The notion that it is a curiously-symmetrical Breen ship seems rather unusual.
Unfortunately, we don't see the ship fire, so there's no clear indicator of who it shoots at. Further, I don't think we get any other clear shots. One more may fly under the Galaxy saucer, but I can't tell very well.
I believe the ships are visible in the combat scene just afterward, which shows the Defiant headed toward a bigass Dominion ship being fired upon by a Vor'Cha. However, the ships are just about little dots in those scenes.
Two may flying to the right just before the Cardassians switch sides, with another following moments behind. But, again, they're small as hell and difficult to distinguish. If so, however, then we get additional indicators of the shape of the vessels. They would seem to have a claw-shaped front-end, not unlike the very front of a Ferengi Marauder. Beyond that, though, it's hard to say with my what I've got.
Anyone with DS9 season seven on DVD care to provide better caps? Anyone have other thoughts? Is this something someone else noticed before, or have I just pulled another "oh hey look Cardassian shuttles are in that base" thing? Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
I take it they're flying left-to-right across the screen? Doesn't look like anything familiar. . . They remind me of the Reman fighter from NEM (or a ship from B5, although I can't think which one).
Posted by machf (Member # 1233) on :
Are you sure those aren't just Jem'Hadar "bugs", from a certain angle?
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Do you people really keep your monitor brightness turned up that high? I had to turn mine up just about all the way to even see the ships.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
No, not bugs. Bugs are too big, incapable of appearing that way, and so on.
TSN:
I always forget the brightness thing. The variability in default monitor brightness is mind-numbing. I happen to have one of adequate brightness, but I had to fight to get one of the one model of decently-bright monitor at work.
As for the caps, it might help to copy them and put them against a black background. The bright bluish tone here doesn't help with visibility (hence the dark background on my site, for all the space pics).
Mark:
The new ship is symmetrical, and does not feature the pointy bits at front and back center.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
At first glance I too thought they might be Bugs. But they're a noticeable different colour. And you can see another Bug in the shot. . . Hey, is that a Sabre between the Defiant and the Bug in the second pic?
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Nope. Looks like another bug. Compare with the upper image.
A Sabre would have red ramscoops, a protrusion rather than a dent atop, and probably less well "separated" nacelles.
One wonders if the mystery fighters aren't just "cut/invert/paste=>symmetry" versions of the Breen ship. After all, didn't we see exactly that type of "CGI-bash" vessel in a VOY episode?
In any case, DVD caps rule! These images look fantastic on my new monitor. I was close to fainting when I could discern "Cal Hudson" sitting inside the Maquis fighter cockpit in that other thread...
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
Lee & Timo: I ran the scene forward . . . that's another bug that gives chase to the Defiant.
Here's the shot I mention where two pass to the right and away from the camera. We therefore see them from a little above, and a little to the rear. Note the crescent or claw-shaped front end.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Well they are moving from left to right - towards the Allies - so they seem to be the Dominion coalition forces. I don't think they have perfect symmetry - especially in the first pic - I think they are Breen ships.
Posted by aneurysm (Member # 906) on :
Ok it seems to me that (and I'm only judging this from the caps on show here) the ship is constantly motion blurred, even more than other, more recognisable ships. Could the ship be a suitably Klingon/Romulan looking Alien-ship-of-the-week added simply to give the impression of more diverse fleet, just heavily motion blurred to disguise it? Just a theory, anyway.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Well, the original two pics seem to show these ships moving WAY faster than any others, so the blur is quite justified...
I rather think this isn't a new design, but just a heavily blurred standard Breen ship - which of course doesn't stop us from labeling it a new vessel, especially considering the scaling.
Or are Breen vessels considered "biotechnology" ("Scorpion I") because they get larger as they age?
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Looks like the Breen ship to me as well. Doesn't seem as symmetrical as you infer. And I find it HIGHLY unlikely that they created a new ship just for the last episode, which was already like 25% stock footage from previous ones, anyway.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
I don't see the asymmetry. Taking the pixellated zoom-in, you can see that the two long shapes are of equal or near-equal length (with the difference, if any, easily explained due to the shadow). Also, besides the front cut-out, there are no crescent shapes as are so common on the Breen ship.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
That's the Breen ship from the front.: I've got a model of it built, so I can see it.
The violet glowy part on the ventral side is it's deflector.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
Yes it is, but I think you're looking too high. I was talking about the two green splotches between the Jem'Hadar fighters on the last posted pic.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Ah...I hve a dark monitor....had to brighten things to see those. They look like jemmie bugs : just blurred and darker (to me).
I really cant imagine the VFX teams made new ship designs (or even used the Rom-about) without shouting it from the rafters for all to hear. The STTM would have probably noted it or Eaves at least (if he designed it).
I was thinking there might be easter eggs in there though (SW ships and the like).
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
The "surely they didn't make new designs" argument is a potentially good one . . . but I don't see any way around the idea that those aren't something we saw before for any of these fleets.
They could've been designs intended for something else, or modified Voyager designs, or something Jim-Bob made in his spare time . . . what-have-you.
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
Interesting. But it's no bug. I've enlarged the first image, the ship just "behind" the phaser beam. Notice that the ship is green, not purple (or blue for that matter, if it's close enough to the phaser beam).
Could it be a tactical fighter with some strange lighting/shadow effects?
Posted by Duranium Horse (Member # 1388) on :
Must be a frigate, notice the similarities. The only problem seems to be where the wings (outlined) show up on the screenshot. The green lights, and elongated nose with curved upper section running the length of the ship are visibly similar.
Posted by Toadkiller (Member # 425) on :
Is your large pic there a screen capture? Very clear shot of a very ugly ship...
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by Duranium Horse: Must be a frigate, notice the similarities.
It doesn't work.
1. The scale is wrong, though I grant that Stipes smoked crack and could've let this slip through. However, presuming that he is innocent of cracksmoking until proven guilty, the scale is wrong. 2. The image you've used for comparison is part of the shot. However, the selected image ignores the symmetry I showed by use of a better-lit vessel at another angle. The same long section is there which you point to as being the center of the Breen ship, but there is a similar object on the opposite lateral side (though, due to its position, it does not reflect as much light).
Posted by Duranium Horse (Member # 1388) on :
The large image is a publicity photo from EAS.
Although the long sections appear to be the same I agree that this image shows the scale to be way off. I still think it's the Breen frigate since no one has come up with another ship that it could be.
Posted by MarianLH (Member # 1102) on :
Yes, and in Star Trek they never rescale an existing model when they need a new ship.
Marian
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