Also, it seems that the Romulan guy is wearing the "Rommie Plaid" uniform of Nemesis, rather than either the TNG-era greys or the two-colored TOS style. It's NOT Romulans of the future, folks.
Mark
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Hmmm... Andorians torturing Vulcans... what is this, "24"?
I haven't seen any of the episodes of this arc, so I won't comment on the Romulan connection, though, in principle, I think it's a cool idea.
Dang... T'Pol always looks good.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: Alas, I've got a Christmas party tonight and am leaving town immediately afterwards, so I won't be doing a full review until Sunday.
If anyone gets shot at that party, you have already made yourself the prime suspect.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Unless that's what I *want* you to think. Please, NEVER underestimate a Vietnamese man's connections to the mob.
Mark
Posted by Fleet-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
Well considering that Jolene Blalock does look good, it stands to reason so would T'Pol.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
And thank goodness for that.
Posted by DoughBoy05 (Member # 1417) on :
Regulus is close to both Vulcan and Andoria? If Vulcan is at 40 Eridani and Andoria is Procyon,,,what the heck is the Vulcan fleet doing out by Regulus?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I can't remember the Romulan uniforms from Nemesis - but I know in Season 3 DS9 the Romulan uniforms changed to the more 'colourful' plaid look - reminiscent of TNG but a few more colours in the squares. Did they keep this look on with Nemesis?
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
Some random items:
-Apparently, Pinar's (sp?) syndrome that T'Pol was suffering from is an imbalance caused by an inexperienced melder. T'Pau was able to correct it with another meld. This cure was another thing being supressed by the High Command.
-The High Command is being disbanded, and Earth will soon be truly "on its own" in exploration, since apparently they are returning to a more pacifist way of life. To me, this explains what happened to all the Vulcan combat cruisers in the intervening years between ENT and TOS. Of course, that still doesn't explain the lack of influence in starship design from the Andorians.
-Cool nod to TOS seeing the Vulcan fighting sticks. They're a little smaller, but they still work.
-Voss released T'Pol from their marriage since the reason T'Pol agreed (helping her mother) no longer exists. He was also the one who provided the codes to Archer to be able to beam into the city.
-Still no sign of the original Vulcan ship (sigh.)
-The Vulcan fleet was by Regulus because it was out of range of the Andorian sensors.
-Surak's writings have to be translated. Apparently Vulcans have lost a language or two (or dialect) in the intervening 1800 years.
-V'Las and the Romulan were working towards reunification of their worlds. Why, and why now? Especially since knowledge of who the Romulans are is not really known to the general population.
That's all I can think of for now.
B.J.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
If Andoria is Procyon then why the heck would the alternate future battle of Procyon V be so named? Wouldn't it have gone by some other name, like the one the Andorians would have used?
Posted by Neutrino 123 (Member # 1327) on :
Maybe Andoria is the name of the homeworld planet.
Judging by the strength of the Vulcan attack fleet, and assuming that it represented a fair portion of the Vulcan's total fleet (a fair assumption since it seemed to be the main effort in a major war), we can estimate that the Vulcans probably don't have more then a few dozen large ships.
The Romulans clearly want to weaken Vulcan before the 'reunifacation', which seems to be their overall goal. As the war is called the "Earth-Romulan war", does this mean that the Vulcan will somehow be weakened before the Romulans attack?
Posted by Captain Boh (Member # 1282) on :
quote:Originally posted by B.J.: -V'Las and the Romulan were working towards reunification of their worlds. Why, and why now? Especially since knowledge of who the Romulans are is not really known to the general population.
Considdering the Vulcans seemed to be becoming more Romulan, it seems to me that the plan was to pick themselves up a whole other planet of Romulans eventually.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Boy, that was sure a quick fix for T'Pol's Pa'nar Syndrome! A pity, I'd say, as I'm sure that had they wanted to they could have done some interesting things with that, especially if they had continued the original HIV-parallel. This miniature "magic reset button" strikes me as odd.
This episode practically explains every difference between ENT and TOS Vulcans thart anyone can think of all by itself. Nifty, although again, perhaps a little too convenient.
Same with T'Pol's marriage to Koss, as well. I can excuse the previous two points as Coto "putting right" things which he felt B&B had gotten wrong, but the marriage thing only happened this season. And it never really served to advance plot or characterization. It seems as if it were never clearly thought out in the first place, and now they've just aborted it. (Kind of like the Temporal Cold War, eh? )
DoughBoy: There is ZERO canon evidence that Andor(ia) is located at Procyon, that was just conjecture by Mandel because the traditional Epsilon Indii no longer seemed to make sense. Ironically, Procyon would no longer seem to make sense for extremely similar reasons.
B.J.: You don't see Andorian influence in Federation ship design??? I've always thought that the Andorian ships looked quite fittingly reminiscent of Federation vessels, and think they're one of ENT's best designs.
As to the Romulans wanting "reunification," I take this to be their euphemism for "conquest of Vulcan."
-MMoM Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Looking at the situation in Celestia, Pollux seems to make the most sense of all prominent stars as location for Andor, because it's roughly half-way between Regulus and Vulcan. Although "Who Mourns for Adonais" also takes place at Pollux, so no Andoria here either.
There probably aren't any local, prominent stars left for Andor. Perhaps the easiest way out is to claim Andor orbits a star that we haven't discovered yet (or that doesn't actually exist in our universe).
EDIT: some people have already made some more likely guesses
Posted by DoughBoy05 (Member # 1417) on :
Hmm what was the name of the star that LUG said Andoria orbited? Anyone? Anyone?
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
- We see a closeup of a star map! Andorian's live in the ANDORIAN EMPIRE, and Vulcan territory is labelled VULCANIAN SPACE.
- What an elegant way to get rid of that awful 'Stigma'-story. Well done.
- Andorians have transporters. I don't know if this was mentioned before.
- Did Soval mention the City of Gol? As in the Stone of Gol?
- Who was the Vulcan agent? He served under T'Pol once. Are we supposed to know him? Was he one of the 'Seven'?
- In fact, he served under T'Pol in the 'Tomed mission'!
- Apparently, Mount Seleya is on the opposite side of the Forge from the Capital, and also within (Vulcan) walking distance.
- Those Andorian shuttles/fighters/corvettes/whatever.. that was a new design, wasn't it?
- If the Kir'Shara is the original work of Surak, then what about the "Teachings of Surak" book Archer gave to T'Pol waaaaaay back on Risa?
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
"Tomed mission" suggests a place named Tomed, which sort of negates David George III's attempt at an explanation. Unless IRW Tomed was named after this place, that is.
"Teachings of Surak" probably bears the same relationship to the actual teachings of Surak as the Bible does to those of Jesus... It may also be the abbreviated edition for children and humans.
Given how fast Vulcan ships are, choosing Regulus as their Sullust makes sense even if the target is Procyon. The minor sidestep won't significantly delay the fleet or anything, and Regulan bloodworms probably are easy to tell from Andorian spies.
Vulcan commandoes with mini-lirpas... Newer-generation Trekkies will probably see the thin green Elven line at Mount Doom. We old codgers rejoice for a different reason.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Starship Freak (Member # 293) on :
What andorian new ship?? I only saw the standard on the cap-pages.
Posted by Doctor Jonas (Member # 481) on :
And I just grabbed my copy of "Among the Clans" Doughboy05
They call it "Kuy'va" in Andorian, and Andoria in Federation standard. No relation with any real star, and they guessed it is 274 light years away from Sol. Take it with a Kilimanjaro of salt.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Hmmmm, I can kinda see how the nose section is very marginally similar to the Excalibur but a Whitestar? ?
Posted by DoughBoy05 (Member # 1417) on :
quote:Originally posted by Doctor Jonas: And I just grabbed my copy of "Among the Clans" Doughboy05
They call it "Kuy'va" in Andorian, and Andoria in Federation standard. No relation with any real star, and they guessed it is 274 light years away from Sol. Take it with a Kilimanjaro of salt.
Crap..no help there...oh well wasn't offical stuff anyway.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
OTOH, wasn't this the book that Sussman and Coto have read and (partly) used for the Babel-arc?
Posted by machf (Member # 1233) on :
quote:Originally posted by Timo: Vulcan commandoes with mini-lirpas... Newer-generation Trekkies will probably see the thin green Elven line at Mount Doom. We old codgers rejoice for a different reason.
Timo Saloniemi
While watching that scene, I was humming the TOS 'combat tune'...
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Anyone else notice the (presumably) Andorian text on V'las' falsified recording of the Xindi weapon?
Have we seen this before? If nothing else, it seems that they read right-to-left, since the text is right-justified, and it appeared on the screen in that direction. Bottom-to-top, too, if that means anything.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
The telemetry is on the screen upside-down, so they probably read "normally".
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
quote:Originally posted by Harry: Take a look at this. To the lower right of NX-01.
And the complete fleet: four cruisers, two smaller vessels, and NX-01.
It looks to me, like they took the standard Andorian ship and made it 'thinner' and took the pods off of the wings. That's a pretty easy way to mod a CGI ship.
Posted by newark (Member # 888) on :
Tomed was mentioned in the TNG episodes "The Neutral Zone" and "The Pegasus". Some kind of incident occured there between the Federation and the Romulan Star Empire.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Timo: Newer-generation Trekkies will probably see the thin green Elven line at Mount Doom.
What do you mean by 'thin green Elven line at Mount Doom'!?!?!?!
Posted by DoughBoy05 (Member # 1417) on :
I think he meant the scene where the Elves all wield thier swordie type weapons at the same time and take out the first row of baddies charging towards them. Thier swords kinda look like the Vulcan weapon.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Some kind of incident, eh?
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
Interesting catch there, Harry, about the "new" Andorian ship. Single straight wing instead of the bent wing design we've seen, plus what resembles a vertical stabilizer on both the top and bottom centerline of the ship. I'd like to see a closer look, even if it does turn out to be a "kitbash".
B.J.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Tomed was mentioned in the TNG episodes 'The Neutral Zone' and 'The Pegasus'. Some kind of incident occured there between the Federation and the Romulan Star Empire."
"The Tomed Incident" was mentioned. They didn't say what exactly a Tomed is. It wasn't until now that they specified that it's a place name.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Aye; mixed with the ship that was Kes's shuttle, et. al.?
Mark
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
Tomed was also mentioned with a date associated with it 2311 IIRC
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
I don't recall the "Tomed Incident" being mentioned in "The Pegasus".
I'm trying to recall the line from "The Neutral Zone". I recall Data saying it, and I'm sure it was something about the Tomed Incident causing a huge loss of lives on both sides. I dunno if it was also referred to as the last contact with the Romulans until 2364 (which is in some doubt anyway due to various timeline schenanigins). That was it, information wise.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
quote: RIKER There's been no direct contact with the Romulans since the Tomed Incident.
And that's all there is to it. The 2311 date probably comes from a different line in the form of "It's been x years since we saw Romulans!".
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
In TNG ("The Defector"?)we saw a Vulcan Ambassidor that was actually a Romulan agent and if she had been undiscovered, nobody would ever have known.. and in other episodes, we see Romulan agents pretending to be Vulcans. The recent episode of ENTERPRISE followes up on that, implying that there has been fairly active spying going on, for a long time, that was largely unknown. From that, it's not to much of a reach to expect a fair amount of cold-war style espionage and such, also.
Here's an interesting take on the Earth/Romulan war.. what if the Romulans decided to call the war off, so their covert operations where not jepordized, not due to tactical reasons and they just let us assume we won.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
"Data's Day". When the Romulan spy turned up on the viewscreen, had she had her forhead ridges added back in? It seems to be standard practise for undercover agents in the future to get they forehead and neck bits readded/removed the second their job is done.
Also, "Unification" showed Spock undercover on Romulas, and he didn't have the forehead ridges. Either there are some Romulans that don't have them, or Vulcans walking around the homeworld of the Romulan Empire isn't that uncommmon (or Romulans are just that stupid).
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
So - could V'Las be a Romulan? Is that what we're implying here?
Mark
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Harry:
quote: RIKER There's been no direct contact with the Romulans since the Tomed Incident.
And that's all there is to it. The 2311 date probably comes from a different line in the form of "It's been x years since we saw Romulans!".
Somewhere, Riker mentions that Tomed cost "thousands of federation lives".
Tomed being a place shoots down the only explanation of the incedent (in the novel Serpents among the Ruins) where Tomed is the name of the romulan flagship. Mabye Tomed is a star system in a strategic localle.
As to the "cold war" silence with the Romulans- there was still ongoing conflict (and presumebly contact) between the Klingons and Romulans during that time- the Khitomer Massacre was after Tomed (as would have been whatever klingon retaliation there must have been- honor and all that).
The "other matters" that kept the romulans busy have never been addressed (though building umteen-million gigantic Warbirds instead of a balanced fleet of more than three ship classes must have occuped considerable effort).
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: So - could V'Las be a Romulan? Is that what we're implying here?
Mark
No- we're implying thatAdmiral Leyton a Romulan: they live a looong time, dontcha know?
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Somewhere, Riker mentions that Tomed cost "thousands of federation lives".
Which, y'know, really doesn't strike me as all that much. Possibly why it's an "indident" and not an "attack" or "battle".
Although I suppose it's better than "the Tomed Occurance".
Posted by Fleet-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
Why were the Vulcans interested in Tomed then? Unless it has something of value... even after the formation of the Federation. Or is it just that it happens that the V'Lass gets into contact with Romulans there secretly and then many years later the Romulans and the Federation have a clash there?
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
To be sure, we're jumping to conclusions based on somebody just saying "We haven't met since the Tomed mission" or words to that effect to T'Pol.
Tomed *might* be a place where this mission took place. Or then it's Vulcanese for "Overlord" or "Torch" or "Coridani Freedom". Or the Vulcan synonym for frell (as in, "We really tomed that mission, now didn't we, T'Pol?"). Or then T'Med is the name of another agent serving with T'Pol and the guard. Or the guy they were supposed to assassinate. Or then a Romulan starship that they were supposed to blow up, one out of a continuous line of ships thus named....
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Or then you are desperately trying NOT to rewrite your Hitchikers Guide Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Yeah, I juest checked, and it was just "the Tomed mission". So, I guess, ignore the last line of my earlier post.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Fleet-Admiral Michael T. Colorge: Why were the Vulcans interested in Tomed then? Unless it has something of value... even after the formation of the Federation. Or is it just that it happens that the V'Lass gets into contact with Romulans there secretly and then many years later the Romulans and the Federation have a clash there?
Mabye it's the midway point between Andoria and Vulcan. Something strategic at any rate.
Posted by Fleet-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
Well even if it lies between Andoria and Vulcan, what Romulan incident would occur there? A botched Romulan invasion to Vulcan?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Or a botched invasion of Andoria...
Or a horrible failed Romulan Transwarp experiment resulting in their entire race having "Moe Hair" forever.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
On Romulus there must be both ridged and non-ridged Romulans... otherwise Spock would have had to have been surgically altered to allow him to wander Romulus so easily.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
HURT YOU!
quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam: Also, "Unification" showed Spock undercover on Romulas, and he didn't have the forehead ridges. Either there are some Romulans that don't have them, or Vulcans walking around the homeworld of the Romulan Empire isn't that uncommmon (or Romulans are just that stupid).
Posted by deadcujo (Member # 13) on :
He didn't exactly going around tossing up the Vulcan hand signal to everyone.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
No, but he didn't exactly look like a Romulan of the times, either.
Posted by deadcujo (Member # 13) on :
True. Obviously Picard went to resonable lengths to conceal his own identity, but if I recall correctly, Spock simply donned Romulan garbs. Maybe he was allowed onto the planet as an ambassador. :/
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Or, Nimoy wasn't hip to wearing a prosthesis.
Mark
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
More likely that it would have taken away from the OMGIT'SSPOCK-ness of the whole thing.
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
What about the ears? They're plastic right?
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
No, he was surgically altered back in 1966 to have pointed ears and slanted eyebrows.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Actually, technically they're rubber.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Whats the deal with all the Tomed speculation?!
Administer V'lassic is Vulcan. Period.
What [really should be bickered over is how or why he was freely roaming around Vulcan (in such a capacity that he could meet with this Romulan guy) when he was just "dethroned" and accused of destroying the Earth Embassy...or whatever. Should he have not been in jail or something at that point?!
Posted by Captain Boh (Member # 1282) on :
Maybe it was his robot clone
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
The Romulan mentioned something about V'Las's disappearance or some such thing, IIRC.
Posted by Captain Boh (Member # 1282) on :
He said people would notice if V'Las disappeared, so they couldn't take him.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
Ah yes.
So, the most likely cause of events was that V'Las made himself scarce right after being deposed, counting on his Romulan buddies to take him away and protect him, but the Romulan dude essentially said it would be better for him to 'face the music' as it were and go to prison.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN: No, he was surgically altered back in 1966 to have pointed ears and slanted eyebrows.
You so sassy!
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: Actually, technically they're rubber.
Doesn't matter, my point was that Nimoy has to wear that stuff already, why would he be opposed to the Romulan ridges? Just because it was on his face? Seems like having my ears pulled down all the live-long day would be more irritating than face makeup.
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
think GALAXY QUEST Posted by Captain Boh (Member # 1282) on :
Nimoy thinks it's all real Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
One thing I remembered that I forgot to mention earlier was the effects of the orbital bombardment. (V'Las did say "photonic" weapons, right?) Most of the hits on the ground just resulted in a relatively small explosion, but one completely disintegrated a large rock formation, complete with funky dissolve effect. Could this be used as an example of why photonic (and photon) torpedoes are different than just a warhead that goes boom? From the footage, it seems wipe the area clear without affecting the surrounding area. Compared to this, nuclear weapons may have about the same effect, but are infinitely messier.
B.J.
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
I think the big rock formation that fizzled away was just the holographic generator being hit by weapons fire.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Indeed. Similar to the fake rock walls we saw Surak-Archer walk through.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
Which doesn't make sense as technology supposedly doesn't work in the Forge... Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
I got the impression that technology works, but theproperties of The Forge (high static and EM fields?) make sensors, communications, propulsion, and that sort of stuff almost useless. Didn't they mention the shuttle pod being able to land, but not take off?
A holoprojector might work just fine there or be HEAVILY shielded and the artifact they found obviously had a power source.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
..And if Archer had had the sense to get Trip to make a shotgun before he left, they'd not have had to bother with the big Vulcan kitty cat.
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
A pity, I'd say, as I'm sure that had they wanted to they could have done some interesting things with that, especially if they had continued the original HIV-parallel. This miniature "magic reset button" strikes me as odd.![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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