Just a small request; when Harry and Tom steal the Runabout and are pursued by the Nebula, there's a diagram inside the cockpit that might have the name of that ship on it (I think it was the scene when they vent the plasma).
So, who owns Voyager season 2 on DVD?
Besides that, I finally bought TNG and TOS on DVD. If there are any requests for images, tell me. (Yes I know, I'm a little late...)
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
So, you have started the conquest to search for someone who actually bought the Voyager DVDs! Good luck!
I have got that episode on Video somewhere, but I haven't seen it for ages. Can't even remember a diagram of the Nebbie in that episode.
Posted by o2 (Member # 907) on :
Hi captain,
recently, I had the opportunity to watch the proper episode on DVD, but even with this digital source it was not possible to see a name or a reg. Quality was to poor respectively the font was to small.
Since I am not allowed to post a picture here (hey, I am complaining all the time, but nothing happens *smile*) I can only offer you to send me your eMail adress. Replay can last a few days since I am not at home right now. Well, its christmas, you know!
Regards,
o2
Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
I have all the seasons of Voyager, but I can't help you anyway. My computer (which I am not on right now) doesn't have a internet connection. Besides my computer was dropped one too many times.
Posted by MattC (Member # 1391) on :
It'd be the Bonchune....
M.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Can we be sure of that..? This episode would have been in the second season of VOY, and thus the fourth season of DS9. Either way, I don't think the guys would have been wholesale into CGI stuff just yet - IIRC, Voyager didn't make the switch until midway through the third season (the Excelsior from "Flashback" was a new physical model), and DS9 was still making D7s and K-7s for some time afterwards.
OTOH, given the very short time we saw the Nebbie following the Runabout (and moving quickly, no less), it COULD have been a CG ship. Personally though, at this stage in both series they were still heavy into physical models, so I'd think it'd be more likely they dragged the old model out of storage (which would have been refurbished following "Generations", natch) for a quick pass or three without relabelling it. In that sense then, assuming parallel universes being relatively the same, that could in fact have been the USS Farragut!
Mark
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Question is whether thar Farragut had been destroyed by that point yet by the Klingons?
Posted by Ace (Member # 389) on :
If I recall, MattC has inside information.
The best way to check though is to see if someone can take a clear shot of the deflector dish (I seem to remember that we saw the front of the ship as it went by). If it's a little more rounder like this and this, then it's the physical model. If it's more like the Galaxy's dish, it's CGI.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
And yes, those are from DVD. Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
Well, it looks like Galaxy dish to me...
Posted by Ace (Member # 389) on :
I just remembered that we get a nice view of the Lexington/Endeavour's dish right before it fires the infamous torpedo from right above the dish (sort of like where a Galaxy's torp bay would be) in the First Contact Sector 001 battle, and I've seen a screencap on this board before, but the link appears to be dead...
Anyway, if someone finds it (it's right after Picard orders everyone to fire on a specific spot, I believe), that shows a good view of the physical model's rounder dish and what it would look like with effects (dish glow, etc.) added.
Right now, it looks like a physical model due to the lighting and the lack of the double ring in the CGI's dish (like the Galaxy CGI model as seen here and here on the USS Galaxy herself during DS9, and again seen in the Nebula CGI itself here. Here's a shot also of the model's dish as seen in either TNG or DS9).
However, (haha) I just remembered that we get a similar fly by view of the front of the USS Bonchune herself when she's chasing the USS Prometheus in "Message in a Bottle." So, if someone posted those two caps (Lexington/Endeavour and Bonchune), we might just have this solved.
Posted by MattC (Member # 1391) on :
Suppose I could ask Rob when he built the Bonchune....
M.
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
Both of you: thanks for the images!
Since any other significant shot (for example the reuse of the Dyson Sphere doors as the Spacedock) was a physical model, I doubt they used a CGI-Nebula here. What about the "other" Prometheus, the Nebula, from DS9? Or could it already be the Leeds?
Anyway that still doesn't mean the model's name and the information on screen are the same given the fact that the display was created some time before the sequence was shot.
Besides that, what phaser does it fire? is that the lower dish phaser? I can't remember any episode of TNG where a target directly in front of the ship was attacked with the that phaser.
Posted by Ace (Member # 389) on :
It looks like it's firing from the ventral saucer array, which would be possible to hit something in front of the ship (although, now that I think of it, I think the USS Bonchune fired at the Prometheus with her dorsal array...).
The DS9 Prometheus was a model, and it is rumored that the Leeds is the ship docked at DS9 in the latter DS9 series opening credits. As to this VOY appearance, in general, the models seem to be relabeled for episodes that they'll be featured in, but since this was just a quick flyby, I could see them just keeping the existing labels, so the original production/airdate of the episode would be helpful to find what name it might have had.
I have a few shots of the DS9 Prometheus lying around (I used to have a website just about the Nebula class, haha); I'll see if I can dig them up for you. I also have a few nice shots of the CGI Nebula, but they are mainly of the dorsal side.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov: Both of you: thanks for the images!
Since any other significant shot (for example the reuse of the Dyson Sphere doors as the Spacedock) was a physical model, I doubt they used a CGI-Nebula here.
The funny thing about physical models, they made a big ole slip up with the runabout Yellowstone that I just noticed (or that is, when I made those caps). The shot of the Yellowstone releasing the tetyron plasma was the standard runabout model, say probably the Rio Grande:
The shot of the the Yellowstone prior to it exploding was the runabout model with the luggage carrier on the top, say probably the Ganges from "Armageddon Game".
Posted by Fleet-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
It looks like the physical model... at least with the deflector dish.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
If the Yellowstone exists in the real timeline, I'd venture to say it was the Danube design with the pod and Intrepid-like nacelles... just to differentiate it from the sensor-podded Danube.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Actually there were 4 overall shots of the Yellowstone: 3 without the pod, 1 with the pod.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
And all they ever did was just either use the Danube model or of Danube stock footage. Yes Okuda did create a graphic using the design of the Danube, but I'd like to ignore that as well. Would rather see a ship and immediately be able to say it's either a Danube or a Yellowstone without having to first question and then check the sensors to see what type of warp engine it has.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dat: If the Yellowstone exists in the real timeline, I'd venture to say it was the Danube design with the pod and Intrepid-like nacelles... just to differentiate it from the sensor-podded Danube.
What Danube ever had Intrepid-like nacelles (presumably more Intrepid-like than the already Intrepid-like nacelles the Danube has)?
And those shots have just reminded me how much I used to love the effort the shows SFX guys went to to ensure that all the reg details on the runabouts were prementantly in shadow, so that no-one would ever realise that we were just seeing the Rio Grande over and over again.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
It's pretty smart to do that- how many shots of the ship cruising through space would they really need anyway?
At least they went all out when the script called for it: the chase scenes/ hiding in the Kieber Belt from Treachery, Faith and the Great River are among my favorite VFX scenes in the series.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
I was just saying that if there was a real Yellowstone class, it should have nacelles with design influences from the Intrepid, so it looks a little different from the Danube.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
A Runabout with Intrepid-like nacelles would be a monstrosity though.
Better to just claim it had bio-neural bullshit inside (thus making it "intrepid-like").
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
The runabout-nacelles were far more intrepid-like than anything else. The blue-glowy bit (my brain isn't working at the moment) only going part of the way back rather than all the way around, and the angular nature of it all make the engines look more like Voyager's than the Enterprise-D.
Posted by SoundEffect (Member # 926) on :
Keep in mind though that there was a discrepancy in the time line due to Harry being on Earth when Voyager took off.
Do we know for sure what was altered as a result. Harry knows when he started to remember differences, but everything else may have been altered from what it had been longer term. My assumption with the episode is that Harry is actually the designer of the Runabout (since he never was assigned for starship duty) and since the Danube never happened (at least not at the same time, and not at Utopia Planitia, but rather on Earth), the first Runabout had several differences to the one we all know; mainly the engine thingy. It just happened to be called the Yellowstone instead of the Danube. That's plausible I think.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Alternately, the whole episode was just another mental fugue, and never happened in reality. It's got all the correct elements, after all.
Harry gets to meet Libby again, and can show that he's "past" her, even though she certainly isn't "past" him. He gets to "convert" his buddy Tom from evil to good. In this reality, he is an important and skilled Starfleet player who gets to one-up the stupid admirals who never believed in him. It's sooo perfectly unreal that a shape-shifting runabout whose Kim-designed special features save the day is just icing on the cake.
Think of it as a mental severing of ties with Earth, with nothing but bodies and burned bridges left in Kim's wake.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by SoundEffect: Keep in mind though that there was a discrepancy in the time line due to Harry being on Earth when Voyager took off.
Do we know for sure what was altered as a result. Harry knows when he started to remember differences, but everything else may have been altered from what it had been longer term. My assumption with the episode is that Harry is actually the designer of the Runabout (since he never was assigned for starship duty) and since the Danube never happened (at least not at the same time, and not at Utopia Planitia, but rather on Earth), the first Runabout had several differences to the one we all know; mainly the engine thingy. It just happened to be called the Yellowstone instead of the Danube. That's plausible I think.
I don't believe that. If indeed the only changes in the timeline that exist are based around Harry Kim not getting a position on Voyager, then the Danube does exist and the Yellowstone is an offshoot of it, so to say. I say this because 1) Danubes were first commissioned in 2368, and Harry graduated from SFA on the eve of 2371. So he could not have designed the runabout, per say, because it would have been already lauched around the end of his freshman year. 2) Harry didn't design the whole ship, as his cohort, Lt. Lasca, clearly said: "I'd like to introduce you to the engineer who designed these new warp engines...".
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
But who is to say that the Yellowstone runabout wasn't built around those new warp engines, rather than the other way around?
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
Is there any mention of a Yellowstone-class? They mention a new type of engines and the name of the ship, USS Yellowstone. It's obviuos that Starfleet gave him a Runabout to install his newly developed engines, nothing more. They didn't rename the Excelsior and Galaxy ship classes after Kosinski had some fun with their engines, either.
Besides that, even if the term Yellowstone-class is used, maybe it's just some sort of insider designation. Sounds better than "That modified Danube-class" or "The Runabout with the new engines".
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Harry did show a MSD-type display that did say Yellowstone class, IIRC. If not, then it had USS Yellowstone along with an NX registry. So it was not a subclass or variant within the Danube class.
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
However, who's to say that a variant within a class can't have an NX registry, if it's a significant enough change? Personally, I'd put an NX on the first Constitution to have the new engines.
B.J.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Starfleet could put an NX registry on a variant in a class, but then again, the Yellowstone wasn't much of a change at all. It was just the type of Warp engine fitted to the runabout.
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
NX beyond prototype means Experimental... so any experimental design could be labeled NX.
Posted by Captain Boh (Member # 1282) on :
Diagrgam looks like it says NCC though
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
That's the standard Runabout specs- so much for "NX". Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Going by that diagram then, the registry is NCC-72452.
Posted by o2 (Member # 907) on :
But can you see the reg on the screen? I don't think so...
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Um, if that's the standard runabout diagram and it shows NCC as part of the registry, then the chances are very good that the number used is that of the Rio Grande's.
Posted by Grand Admiral Thrawn (Member # 1490) on :
We here the Captain's voice and he doesn't sound like Solok of the T'Kumbra or Shelby from Endeavour (presuming its Shelby from best of both worlds), call me dumb but I always imagined Amizov as having an accent too! (Has anyone else cottoned onto the fact the endeavour was destroyed in first contact? 'Flagship Endeavour to all units', followed by 'Captain, the Admirals ship has been destroyed' Amizov got away at wolf 359 too, poor bloke....)
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Um... what?
I actually went back and read the page before this and I still don't know...
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Um, Shelby had the Sutherland. And Amisov was a captain when he was ever mentioned. And if I recall the dialog correctly, the Endeavour was not the flagship.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Amisov was a captain who encountered the Borg, according to Janeway (I believe in Scorpion).
Posted by Vice-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
Yes but it doesn't state if the Borg encounter with the Endeavour was at Wolf 359... or another time and place like what happened to the Excalibur.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
I'm inclined to believe that it's another encounter - it's pretty hokey to assume that ALL the major meetups with the Borg have to involve our heroes on the Enterprise or Voyager.
Mark
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I agree that it's another encounter. Janeway was going through all the encounters she could find. "Every battle... every schirmish". Or words to that effect.
I'm still not sure what Thrawn's comment had to do with the thread. Do you mean we heard the captain's voice from the Nebula that was chasing the runabout? What does that have to do with Amizov or Shelby?
Posted by Grand Admiral Thrawn (Member # 1490) on :
trying to identify the Nebula in voyager, the captain was not Solok or Shelby, just trying to narrow things down! Plus if you put the subtitles on first contact on, it quite clearly states 'Flagship Endeavour' Maybe Amizov did encounter the borg elsewhere, but of the 40 ships at wolf 359 39 were destroyed (the drumhead) one got away. The Excalibur was lost to the Borg whereas Amizovs comments indicate the Endeavour escaped.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Detention for you, young master Thrawn! Not coming to the lesson adequately prepared!
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Because a) We know the Endeavor was a Nebula, b) no two starships have ever been named the same c) Amisov's encounter with the Borg *must* have been at Wolf 359.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Though he may not have been a Captain at that encounter or in command of the Endeavor at the time of the encounter for that matter.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I don't think she'd bother to name the ship, though, were that the case; just the dude. Like, say, if Voyager was on right now, it would be kind of weird to say "Ah, here's Captain Riker of the Titan's description of his encounter with the Borg." Mentioning the ship in this context doesn't really convey any information, either to the other character or the viewer.
Or, rather, it does, in the sense that there might be lots of Rikers in Starfleet, but it sounds awkward and, I think, irrelevant to the matter at hand.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Call me the Master of the Obvious, but, um, does anyone else here realize that Thrawn is trying to identify the Nebula in this episode by associating the comvoice that addressed the Yellowstone with the known captains of previously mentioned Nebbies?! Posted by Vice-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
Since when was the Excalibur destroyed? And I'm not talking about the Ambassador Class from New Frontier...
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
I'm sure it comes from some passing reference in the events and com chatter of FC. But I'm not really the go-to-guy on the finer points of that...
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
It's probably just that a Starfleeter from the Excalibur once got assimilated, as told in VOY "Survival Instinct". But extrapolating that the ship must have been destroyed is a bit harsh. The E-D wasn't blown up when Picard was kidnapped...
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Grand Admiral Thrawn (Member # 1490) on :
The Enterprise D wasn't destroyed because the Borg had their eyes on Earth, every other time they have encountered a Starfleet Vessal there has been only one outcome. The Enterprise never escaped the Borg Cube even though it tried to flee on three seperate occasions, so there is no way the Excalibur would have escaped unless the Borg wanted them to, or maybe they had Kazon onboard, the only known antidote to assimilation discovered by Federation science.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Umm, the Borg are relatively easily evaded unless they for some mysterious reason want to pursue. And so far there has been no instance of the Borg actually pursuing any starship other than the E-D in "Q Who?" (or the Delta Flyer in "Dark Frontiers). It's the other way 'round that is the normal Borg modus operandi - they run, others try to follow and usually fail.
And contrary to popular belief, there appear to have been a lot more "incidents" involving the Borg than the ones we saw on screen. Otherwise, Picard's "They advance, we fall back" speech in ST:FC would make no sense.
As VOY stands evidence, it's pretty simple to "peacefully coexist" with the Borg, or to suffer only minor losses to them. This may easily have been the fate of the Excalibur as well. (And of the Endeavor, whose captain Janeway listens to in "Scorpion".) Guinan's "Q Who?" assertion that the Borg "don't do anything piecemeal" seems to have been a complete falsehood or misunderstanding on her part...
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Who knows what the circumstances were? Anything could have happened. Excalibur could have managed to best one of those scout ships, only to be forced to run quickly away by something larger. Or, I mean, anything. An away team member stepped into a Borg mouse trap on some planet and couldn't be saved.
And even just going from onscreen encounters (value judgement of those encounters' relative worth as plots withheld), Voyager got away from the Borg lots of times.
Posted by Grand Admiral Thrawn (Member # 1490) on :
I don't think the Borg are easily avoided, as soon as the Voyager aproaches a cube to negotiate over 8472, the first thing it does is lock a tractor beam on them even though they're in the middle of a war! Picard says the moment he has dreaded for nearly six years has arrived when the Borg enter Federation space in First Contact. Besides which the 39-40 ratio of Wolf 359 is best explained by the fact the Endeavour was there, had a disastrous encounter with them (hence the evil speech) and survived for Amizov to write it down.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Or the Endeavor's crew were evacuated from their damaged ship and it was salvaged later.
Or the Endeavour was late for the confrontation with the Cube and the borg couldn't be bothered to fully assimilate the ship
Whatever you want to think.
The Borg were intrested in Voyager initially because they should not have been that far away from the Alpha Quadrant- not because they're desperate for drones or they really really like the Holiday Inn decor of feddie starships.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Picard hadn't been dreading the Borg entering Federation space, he had been dreading an invasion of the Federation. The Borg had been in Federation space before. In other words, the Borg had finally set their sights on attacking the Federation and Picard was worried that there may be no way of stopping them now that they had turned their attention our way.
If only he had known that, instead of sending an entire fleet to meet them, they should have simply sent a lone Intrepid Class, which could have easily taken care of things.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Who's to say it was the Endeavour was even at Wolf 359. For the longest time, we had all thought it was the Ahwahnee, since they had not damaged the study model and Okuda places the ship in active service a year later.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Noone. There's nothing to suggest that the Endeavor was at Wolf 359. Only that, at some point, it encountered the Borg.
Posted by Brown_supahero (Member # 83) on :
Does anybody have scans of the Nebula schem. in the last Communicator.
Sorry my broke, lazy ass doesn't want to get up and pick it up at my local over priced book store.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)