This is topic $$ Am I seeing double, or is it just a tech-reflection? ["IaMD, Part II" Spoilers] in forum Starships & Technology at Flare Sci-Fi Forums.
Look forward to gobs of TOS Constitution action including a probable battle with a Mirror-NX, a Gorn, and plenty of other goodies. I wonder if there'll be some explanation as to why Mirror-Kira from "Crossover" (DS9) said that the first knowledge of the other universe came after the incident depicted in "Mirror, Mirror" (TOS)?
There're only 3 episodes left after this one. The bastards.
-MMoM
[NOTE: Anyone who bitches about the smilies is obviously a terroristic evil-doer.]
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I don't get it.
(That is, assuming there is a reference to get.)
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Maybe the news of a Mirror universe wasn't well known before the Kirk one.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I'd expect the Defiant to go down (so to speak) with all hands at the end of the episode. I mean, it gives them a chance to do lots of fun death scenes, plus blow up their pretty model (which is the whole point of building pretty models, I would think, physical or virtual).
And there appears to be a metaphysical law in place in the mirror universe responsible for ensuring the whole mirror concept. So the ship is destined to be destroyed to preserve good/evil technological parity.
I'd be surly too if I came to realize that my life wasn't authentic, but tied to some other universe of jerks who get to make all the "real" decisions.
The solution is obvious, of course. Get those missiles ready to destroy the (other) universe!
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Yes a TOS Connie destruction scene would be nice! What about escape pod ejection!?!
With this model - hopefully it means having some cool Ships of the Line calendar pics! Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: The solution is obvious, of course. Get those missiles ready to destroy the (other) universe!
I always thought that DS9 would do an episode like that. Of course, the writers there liked to fuck with audience expectations, and they'd already done "big battle" mirror universe story (to go with "dark and creepy" MU story and "run around like pirates" MU story), so instead they went with "Madcap Ferengi antics" MU story. Woo!
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
I also clearly remember a "Lesbian Latex Fest" MU story...
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
There was even a hint of gayness of Worf the Regeant... where he tells Garak after Garak was going to give himself to the regeant (Worf)... Worf says after a pause - "You're Not My Type".
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:I'd expect the Defiant to go down (so to speak) with all hands at the end of the episode. I mean, it gives them a chance to do lots of fun death scenes, plus blow up their pretty model (which is the whole point of building pretty models, I would think, physical or virtual).
Either that, or the ship eventually becomes the 100 year-old twin of Kirk's Enterprise by TOS time. I can so see Archer rechristening the ship as the new I.S.S. Enterprise, although there'd be a problem with the registry.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Which is why I asked in one of the earlier threads if we ever saw the 1701 registry on the Mirror Enterprise in "Mirror, Mirror". If we never see the registry, it's possible that Mirror Kirk's ship is actually "our" Defiant.
Though, at some point, the uniform insignias would have had to have changed from the Defiant's to the ones they have that are exactly the same as "our" TOS Enterprise crew's.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
I'm still willing to believe that Archer renames the Defiant in honour of the ship he always wanted to command. That solves how the Empire manages to have a ship IDENTICAL to our Connie, but doen'st really explain why Bones spilled acid there a year ago.
Mark
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
quote: Which is why I asked in one of the earlier threads if we ever saw the 1701 registry on the Mirror Enterprise in "Mirror, Mirror". If we never see the registry, it's possible that Mirror Kirk's ship is actually "our" Defiant.
Sorry to burst your bubble.
Posted by Vice-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
How come the mirror universe has agonizers only on the male duty uniforms?
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Because there are intra-uterine devices for the women, of course. It's also how they can afford to be so loose without getting knocked up left and right.
[Never let it be said that my quips are in poor taste.]
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
They must fit so snuggly.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Well, if Defiant survives to be renamed by Archer, he could easily change the 64 in the registry to 01 to honor NX-01.
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
Looks like the writers side-stepped the "takes 30 minutes to restart a cold warp drive" issue.
The Defiant used two phaser banks above the hangar bay to aid in her escape. She also fired forward with a pair of beams. She has an aft torpedo bay that seems to be at the base of the neck. There's a really good closeup of the ship firing phasers and torpedos from above the sensor dome on the ventral surface of the saucer. Might be worth catching that in freeze-frame to see exactly where the weapons are coming from. The Defiant puts up a hell of fire against the mid-22nd century ships.
The bridge of the Avenger is different from both the bridges of Enterprise and Columbia. Instead of the situation table and monitors in the aft alcove, she has a flat wall blocking that area off (of course, said wall has a huge hole in it from battle damage).
Back on the Defiant, the Jeffries tube has an outlet, apparently. The duotronic nodule that Soval instructs Phlox to remove is apparently just a protective grid. T'Pol refers to the saucer section as the primary hull. The computer said "working" when pulling up the data file on the regular universe Jonathan Archer.
I dub this episode "The Revenge of the Underutilized Characters".
Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
one little quivel to bitch at, at the end of the episode: no apparant damage to the primary hull when Defiant reached earth orbit, after destroying Avenger...
it loooooooked wonderful otherwise.... Posted by Wee Bairns (Member # 1324) on :
I took some pretty good screenshots that will likely be of intrest...
aft firing phasers...
aft firing torpedoes...
A closeup of Archer's service record, including details like he was an ambassador to Andoria and will be the Federation President. (This screenshot was on another forum, I didn't take this one)
The Gorn...
And what looks, to me, at least, like the exact same aztecing on the Defiant as is on the Connie refit...
A Defiant beauty shot...
And my pathetic effort to splice together a snap of painting in the briefing room...
If anyone else would like screenshots, I can probably take some.
Posted by Vice-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
Shit, did the Defiant take that much damage? I was at a wake and had to miss the part 2.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
How I know I am sort of hideous undernerd, despised as uncool by even the Star Trek nerd community: The neatest thing in these pictures is that we finally find out what the official title for members of the Federation Council is. Though it is shockingly mid-twentieth century. No Councilperson? Councilbeing?
Still, awesome, and I am so glad it is not "ambassador," as sort of implied by, for instance, "Journey to Babel," among other places. Now I can continue to believe that the "Federation Council" scenes from Star Trek IV were in fact just a specially convened subcommittee.
(Probable derail: The thing about "ambassador" is, in TOS the Federation was seemingly intended as being much more UN-like. Thus Sarek was the Vulcan ambassador to the Federation Council. This gets subtly retconned by his TNG episode, were he's a Federation ambassador-at-large who happpens to be from Vulcan. And, I don't know. This is the sort of thing I pay attention to, I guess. Of course, one could say, without much evidence to the contrary, that the Federation went through some serious reorganization inbetween TOS and TNG, turning it into the more statelike entity we get by, say, DS9. But I'd rather not, personally.)
No birthdate or date of death, I notice. Plus his birthplace is just "Upstate New York?" That's everywhere in New York that isn't in the city. How did he give friends directions to his house? When you hit Canada you've gone too far?
Though now I see that he's apparently an ambassador to Andoria starting eight years after the Federation begins? Boo to that.
Posted by Captain Boh (Member # 1282) on :
Well, we know how they avoided people finding out about the Federation-universe. They deleted the historical files.
Looked like the forward torpedoes came from here: Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Earth still needs Ambassadors even after the forming of the Federation.
- The Defiant cutaway is basically the same as the one from Captain's Chair.
- The Empire is said to be 'centuries' old. This probably means that everything we see in the intro relates to the birth of the Terran Empire. Or it could be Orwellian propaganda.
- Aft phasers and torpedoes are fired from the rim of that dome atop the hangar bay, similar to the situation on the saucer.
- The Rebellion is just a mix of renegades, including Vulcans and Andorians.
- Among the Tholian slaves is a blue, Antedean/fish-like humanoid. It's probably a reuse of Generic Background Alien #31827.
- The interior of the Defiant looks remarkably good. No 60s cheesiness anywhere. The ship has large service crawlways, that look a bit more modern than the usual corridors, but fit the ship.
- A personal annoyance... the Defiant's records use the same TNG Federation logo. This kind of implies that the logo was always the same, despite the variations we saw in various sources.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Texas does not have an ambassador in Oklahoma.
An interesting question, one I can't seem to find an easy answer to at the moment, is what the current state of, say, the German embassy in France is, or the French embassy in Austria, and what the future plans for such institutions are. My monolinguism is probably holding me back here, as all I can find on the European Union's website is information regarding external ambassadors and embassies and missions and etc.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
The EU is NOT a nation, and it's members are sovereign nations, and will remain that for the foreseeable future. So yes, everyone has representatives to everyone else.
I more or less assumed the same for the UFP, since members are still rather individual. Remember the Khitomer Conference, which had an Earth and Vulcan delegation, in addition to a UFP delegation.
DS9 americanized the UFP by introducing a US-style President, but most other evidence seems to point to a UN/EU type of coalition.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I never implied that it was. The point is that the EU is unique in that it combines aspects of a federal system with an intergovernmental one, and in it the traditional role of embassies is shared across a large number of other organizations, committees, and the like. I'm genuinely curious about the role of embassies in the EU now and in the future.
It's pretty clear the Federation is not like the UN, in my opinion, if for no other reason than it has a military. It also makes laws, as opposed to treaties.
Anyway, I think the Federation as presented is at least as centralized an entity as the EU, and likely more so. But there isn't much in the way of explicit information on this topic, and I wouldn't say my interpretation is objectively more right than yours.
I don't see why having a representative flying an Earth flag at a big conference means anything more than that the (a) Councilmember from Earth and his staff was there. Perhaps the Earth and Vulcan Councilmembers were members of the foreign relations committee at the time.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
(Incidently, I was trying to keep a list of government-related stuff in Star Trek for awhile, but my effort stopped around the time I ran out of money to buy more seasons on DVD.)
And I don't mean to imply that the UN actually makes treaties itself. But rather that it is an entity where nations go to talk over the details of such things. The UN itself is limited to issuing resolutions, whose effectiveness vary, to put it mildly.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Over at Trekbbs, somebody was bragging of DVR'ing his HDTV and observing phaser turrets at the emitting points. That is, two single aft emitters exactly where they are in the TMP refit, and two side-by-side emitters forward of the primary hull dome. Only visible when firing, apparently.
Any way to confirm with available tech resources? Screencaps from a moment before firing, rather than from during firing, please!
I rather like the idea that the aft dome would be a repeat of the primary hull dome(s) in smaller scale and possibly with limited power - but rather than an actual weapons mount, it could be a fire control installation of some sort.
So Archer makes President? Glad that the dates don't overlap with things like Picard's scrapbook (Pres. Vanderbilt) or fanon (Pres. Thorpe), but it becomes more and more difficult to explain why post-ENT history does not remember the ENT adventures. I mean, Archer is clearly more influential than Kirk ever was, even from the Starfleet viewpoint. Can it really be due to the greater time separation only?
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Digital? Phooey! I saw the aft turrets on good ol' VHS. They're little more than dots, but they're there, visible right after Defiant takes out the tractor emitter.
Mark
Posted by Wee Bairns (Member # 1324) on :
The port turret is quite apparent here...
And the MSD...
And I found some much better grabs of the two service records...(These, again, were not taken by me) Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Very nice. I didn't catch the actual, visible emitters the first time around.
And the MSD is really the exact same as the CC version.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Ach, me Wee Bairns! Thank you!
Lovely stuff about "Archer IV" and all - did we know Shran's first name prior to this? Somebody was having fun writing that little piece. Hoshi's bio is far less imaginative.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
HISTORICAL ARCHIVE: STARFLEET PERSONNEL
STARFLEET PERSONNEL FILE: ARCHER, JONATHAN SERIAL NUMBER: SA-022-9237-CY
Rank at retirement: Admiral, Chief of Staff, Starfleet Command Former assignments: Commanding officer, Enterprise NX-01, 2150-2160 Ambassador to Andoria, 2169-2175 Federation Councilman, 2175-2183 President, UFP 2184-2192 Birthplace: Upstate New York, North America, Earth Parents: Henry and Sally Archer
PSYCHOLOGICAL PROFILE
Charming, bold, a born explorer, Archer was guided by a core of human decency and intuition, even when they contravene direct orders. He was independent, yet had a strong sense of duty. Archer held a grudge against the Vulcans, whom he blamed for keeping humanity stuck on Earth, but he learned to cope with a Vulcan science officer. As captain of a starship his father helped build, Archer was eager to make history and see what's out there.
BIOGRAPHICAL OVERVIEW
Son of famed warp specialist Henry Archer, Jonathan Archer was appointed captain of Starfleet's first warp five starship, Enterprise NX-01. As an explorer and peacemaker, his name is among the most recognized in the Federation, and his pioneering voyages aboard the Enterprise are known to school children on dozens of worlds, many of which were unknown to humans in Archer's lifetime. Historian John Gill called Archer the "greated explorer of the 22nd Century." Archer earned an impressive list of commendations during his career, including a Medal of Valor with clusters, the Star Cross, the XXXXXXXXXX Ribbon of Commendation, and the Federation Citation of Honor. Archer was also appointed an honorary member of the Andorian Guard by General Thy'lek Shran in 2164. He's the only human to have two planets named in his honor: ARCHER'S PLANET in the Gamma Trianguli sector, and Archer IV, which orbits 61 Ursae Majoris. Archer IV was the first M-Class world charted by the famous explorer. Although the planet was uninhabitable throughout the 22nd Century due to toxic pollen in the atmosphere, an antidote to the pollen was discovered early in the 2200's. Today, the population of Archer IV number[s] more than seven hundred million.
Jonathan Archer grew up dreaming of the day when he would get to go "where no man has gone before". His father was the respected Henry Archer, who led the development of the Warp Five engine in the footsteps of warp pioneer Zephram Cochrane. So it is fitting that Jonathan would carry on the family legacy
Posted by Wee Bairns (Member # 1324) on :
One more, showing the phaser turrets on the primary hull... Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Here's some nice Gorn pics!
Talking to communicator without moving his lips...
Pretending he's SpiderMan...
Wrestling with Archer...
Taking a nap... Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Episode writer Mike Sussman wrote the biographical screens for Archer and Sato and posted them on the TrekBBS:
quote:Posted by MikeSussman: For those who are curious, here's the complete text I created for the Archer/Hoshi on-screen bios. Some of the text on-screen was taken directly from the Star Trek.com bios on the characters; this is the stuff I made up.
STARFLEET PERSONNEL FILE: Archer, Jonathan Serial Number: SA-022-9237-CY
Rank at retirement: Admiral, Chief of Staff, Starfleet Command Former Assignments: Commanding officer, Enterprise NX-01, 2150-2160 Ambassador to Andoria, 2169-2175 Federation Councilman, 2175-2183 President, UFP 2184-2192 Birthplace: Upstate New York, North America, Earth Parents: Henry and Sally Archer
Son of famed warp specialist Henry Archer, Jonathan Archer was appointed captain of Starfleet�s first warp five starship, Enterprise NX-01. As an explorer and peacemaker, his name is among the most recognized in the Federation, and his pioneering voyages aboard the Enterprise are known to school children on dozens of worlds, many of which were unknown to humans in Archer�s lifetime. Historian John Gill called Archer the �greatest explorer of the 22nd Century.� Archer earned an impressive list of commendations during his career, including a Medal of Valor, with clusters, the Star Cross, the Preantares Ribbon of Commendation, and the Federation Citation of Honor. Archer was also appointed an honorary member of the Andorian Guard by General Thy�lek Shran in 2164. He�s the only human to have two planets named in his honor: Archer�s Planet in the Gamma Trianguli sector, and Archer IV, which orbits 61 Ursae Majoris. Archer IV was the first M-Class world charted by the famous explorer. Although the planet was uninhabitable throughout the 22nd Century due to toxic pollen in the atmosphere, an antidote to the pollen was discovered early in the 2200�s. Today, the population of Archer IV numbers more than seven hundred million.
When I wrote this, I assumed the text wouldn't be legible (silly me). There are probably some errors in here. One I can spot -- Archer took command of Enterprise in 2151, not 2150. Some of this text would seem to be contradicted by the finale (which obviously had not been written yet). The name Sally, unless I'm mistaken, is also the name of Scott Bakula's mother.
Moreover, there was a final section of text that didn't actually appear on screen:
Archer died peacefully in his home in upstate New York in the year 2245, exactly one day after attending the christening ceremony of the first Federation Starship Enterprise, NCC-1701.
Yeah, he would've been old, but pretty close to McCoy's age in "Encounter at Farpoint."
This is the text I created for Hoshi's bio:
STARFLEET PERSONNEL FILE: SATO, HOSHI Serial Number: SA-037-0198-CL Rank at retirement: Lieutenant Commander Former Assignment: Communications and Protocol officer, Enterprise NX-01 Birthplace: Kyoto, Japan, Earth
Hoshi Sato served as translator, and protocol and communications officer on Starfleet�s first warp five starship, Enterprise NX-01. Born in Kyoto, Japan on July 9th, 2129, she was the second child in a family of three. After leaving Starfleet in her late thirties, Sato created the linguacode translation matrix, which is still in use aboard Federation starships today.
Since the dialogue stated that the file contained info on Hoshi's marriage and death, I created a final paragraph -- it's worth noting that this was NOT shown on-screen:
Tragically, Hoshi and her family were among the four thousand people who died on Tarsus Four in 2246 when a food shortage caused by an exotic fungus threatened the colony�s population. Governor Kodos ordered the deaths of Sato and the others in order to save the rest of the colony. She was buried in Kyoto with her husband, Takashi Kimura.
I wouldn't really consider any of this "hard canon," so take it all with a grain of salt. Both bios were slapped together hastily and weren't approved by the exec producers. Some trivia -- the name of Hoshi's "husband" was cobbled together from actors in some favorite Japanese films -- Hoshi and Linda Park share the same birthday.
Tim Gaskill and I discuss this some more on the podcast at startrek.com.
As someone on the TrekBBS pointed out, the "mistake" about when Archer assumed command of the NX-01 isn't really a mistake if one considers that he said he beat out Robinson for command six months prior to launch in "First Flight," making it somewhere around November 2150. ("Broken Bow" was April of 2151.)
Too bad that bit about Hoshi's run-in with Kodos the Executioner didn't make the ep. She could have been teen-Kirk's language tutor!
-MMoM
[ April 30, 2005, 06:31 PM: Message edited by: The Mighty Monkey of Mim ]
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
The second part was WAY better than the first part!! (The episodes I'm talking about).
Just two things - this is the first time where the Constitution has looked like a REAL (heh) starship at warp - we'll we've never seen it before now - but I didn't know how/couldn't picture how it would look. Even though we've had the E-refit/E-A which is pretty much the same shape. Anyway the Defiant looked BEAUTIFUL!
The end... the END was AWESOME!
Loved it. As someone said - it was the junior officers revenge! Pitty they weren't given anything meaty in the "real universe".
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I just watched the episode again - twice in just a few hours. FANTASTIC! Luuuurve the ending!
Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
I felt the opposite. I thought the first part was much better than the second. It seemed like the second part suffered from too many plot ideas. We had repairing the Defiant. We had a monster on the loose. We had taking over the empire.
And none of these plot ideas went really far. Just seemed confusing.
I don't think I liked the Gorn as much as I wanted to. He seemed to look a bit too much like a T-Rex (and not the band).
I really don't like the idea or running into the Gorns. Two weeks ago they are mentioned to Archer and this week Mirror-Archer sees one. Again we have a race mentioned and seen that first-contact isn't made with until the 23rd or 24th centuries.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Did anybody notice that the gorn had reptilian eyes instead of the silver bug eyes from TOS"Arena"? Does this mean that those silver eyes where some sort of contact lenses or other protective eyewear.
I also have to agree with herbshrump that IaMD partI was much better than partII because partII had too much going on in only 1 hour. What really irked me was that the Defiant survives. If this is the case, than why are connies still being used in Kirk's era. Wouldn't the empire obviously improve upon this future technology so that by the time of "Mirror,Mirror" MU Kirk would be cruising around in a galaxy class.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Unless Mirrir-Kirk wasn't a favored captain and was commanding a low-end ship...
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"[Gorn] Talking to communicator without moving his lips..."
Since they made a point of mentioning that the translator was turned on, I suspect we were supposed to be seeing the Gorn speaking in his own language. Even though this is irregular in Trek, I guess they wanted to emphasize his alienness. Or they just thought it was neat. But, since his throat was moving, and there was a grunting, hissing sound going on underneath his English speech, I think we were supposed to be getting a glimpse of actual Gornese.
"What really irked me was that the Defiant survives. If this is the case, than why are connies still being used in Kirk's era."
Who says it survived? It survived until the end of the episode. The episode ended with "Empress Sato" getting ready to attack Earth. For all we know, she failed, and the ship was destroyed. But, perhaps the plans survived (someone recovered enough of the computer core of the ISS NX-01, or something), and it took until the mid-2200s before they managed to use those plans to build more Constitutions.
On a different note, after Archer banged Sato in the captain's quarters, then showed up on the bridge in his velour uniform, I really wanted him to say "Trip! I have bedded a woman! Inform the crew."
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: Get those missiles ready to destroy the (other) universe!
For science!
So, er, I don't remember those power thingies (the red bars Phlox was sabotaging) from TOS, yet they looked like they belonged. My memory for things not involving TMBG lyrics is bad, though. Have we seen those before?
Posted by machf (Member # 1233) on :
I've been listening to the commentary, and I'm left wishing there'd be a way to watch all those scenes that had to be cut from the episodes to make them fit into the usual episode length...
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Did we know Shran's first name before?
And finally we know the truth - the MU is fundamentally skewed in some way, their literature is much darker with nastier characters. Just like in Dark Mirror.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
How did the mirror humans, who in all respects seem to perfectly mirror the technological achievements of regular humans, ever manage to conquer mirror Vulcan, though, I wonder? Or was this covered in part one?
Well, I guess the answer now is "with weapons from the future," but what about the first time?
(Also, Bakula kind of ((kind of? how about super to the max)) overdid it in a few places, but I liked the parts where he played up his sense of inferiority when confronted with his alternate's accomplishments. I was expecting a scene revealing that he had always wanted T'Pol too, though.)
I have some other thoughts on the existential horror of living in the mirror universe, but maybe a non-technical thread would be a better home for them.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lee: Did we know Shran's first name before?
Nope. But more importantly, what did you think of my thread title?
-MMoM Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
quote: Did anybody notice that the gorn had reptilian eyes instead of the silver bug eyes from TOS"Arena"? Does this mean that those silver eyes where some sort of contact lenses or other protective eyewear.
Naah. The nasty Gorn pirate captain just showed how nasty he was by wearing patches over BOTH eyes.
Or perhaps he made a bet with the Metron? "A weak Earthling? Bah! I could beat him blindfolded!"
Seriously, forks, it would put an interesting twist to "Arena" if we learned that Kirk in essence beat up a blind cripple. Which is what "IaMD" very much makes it look like.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I would suggest that the TOS Gorn's eyes were buggy for the same reason that TOS Andorians' antennae didn't move.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Erectile disfunction?
Posted by Vice-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
I'm still wondering if She-Ho actually loved Captain Forrest or not.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
So we never saw Mirri T'Pol's fate, right? Probably became subject to the empress' whims. . .
Also, the array that Phlox dismantled to disable the Defiant - was that a re-use of the same components Archer fiddled with to destroy the Xindi sphere? All ythose glowing red tubes, removed in pairs this time but singly last time. . .
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Vice-Admiral Michael T. Colorge: I'm still wondering if She-Ho actually loved Captain Forrest or not.
That's Empress She-Ho to you biatch! Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
Well, the TOS Gorn looked big and buff compared to this one. Maybe this was the wiry, dorky Gorn wearing horn-rimmed glasses that had the advantage of being small and quick.
Or maybe in this universe the Gorn were Augments.
In any case, since we haven't seen a Gorn in the normal universe, we don't really need an explanation of the difference beyond it being the Mirror Universe, where Crazy Things Happen(tm).
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Northern Gorns and Southern Gorns. And if there had been a Season 5, a six-episode arc would've been made to explain in excruciating detail why they look different.
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
Personally, I liked seeing how much more powerful the Constitution class is over the NX and the large Vulcan ship. Proof of progress, there. (And I think we saw it destroy an Andorian ship, but I can't remember.)
B.J.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
Actually, the torpedoes seemed quite weak, at least until the final shots on Avenger. Still, the total number of torpedoes fired in this episode was quite absurd, with limited impact.
It was the phasers that were smacking fools around in a hardcore manner.
Posted by Vice-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
I guess the torps were set at a low yeild... I wonder who ordered that.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Balaam Xumucane: So, er, I don't remember those power thingies (the red bars Phlox was sabotaging) from TOS, yet they looked like they belonged. My memory for things not involving TMBG lyrics is bad, though. Have we seen those before?
They weren't from TOS, and I'm a bit skeptical of all the power to the ship's primary systems running through this single, open-to-interruption junction. Not very smart. But I guess it *is* the sort of plot device that would be used on TOS. I also loved how the "duotronic module" referred to the SCREEN covering the relays!
quote:Originally posted by Lee: So we never saw Mirri T'Pol's fate, right? Probably became subject to the empress' whims. . .
Also, the array that Phlox dismantled to disable the Defiant - was that a re-use of the same components Archer fiddled with to destroy the Xindi sphere? All ythose glowing red tubes, removed in pairs this time but singly last time. . .
Could be...but what did you think of my thread title?
-MMoM Posted by Wee Bairns (Member # 1324) on :
Perhaps the difference in the Gorn's eyes could be explained away by the fact that in Arena the Goern was outside in the bright sun, where as on Enterprisehe was in dark passgeways and conduits. Perhaps they work like the Vulcan's inner eyelid?
Or you know, cheap SFX...
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Or maybe the Gorn was a lesbian... like everyone else in the Mirror Universe. Everyone knows that lesbian Gorn don't have silver eyes...
Posted by Wee Bairns (Member # 1324) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wee Bairns: Perhaps the difference in the Gorn's eyes could be explained away by the fact that in Arena the Gorn was outside in the bright sun, where as on Enterprise he was in dark passgeways and conduits. Perhaps they work like the Vulcan's inner eyelid?
Or you know, cheap SFX...
Oh good, I quoted instead of edited. Huzzah!
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
quote: Or maybe the Gorn was a lesbian... like everyone else in the Mirror Universe. Everyone knows that lesbian Gorn don't have silver eyes...
Yes,yes we all know everything in MU is lesbonic especially the starships like the ISS Enterprise and the ISS Avenger. Although USS Defiant is from our universe, they'll convert her too. As for the Gorn eyelids, I too also thought those bug eyes where for protection from the sun.
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
Maybe this was a male Gorn while the one Kirk fought was female.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
The thread title? Oh, so-so. . .
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
AHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! Posted by Wee Bairns (Member # 1324) on :
Hot. Very. hot.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I suspect the "duotronic module" was not the screen itself, but the rectangular thing stuck to the middle of the screen.
As for mirror T'Pol's fate, if you listen to the commentary, they mention that they tried to leave the main characters' fates fairly nebulous, so they had the option of bringing them back in a future MU episode. Not that that's going to happen now, but they didn't know that then.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
I've barely had time to watch them once, let alone put the commmentaries on my iPod and re-watch them. So we can assume that Reed might pull through, and Tucker is still lurking in Engineering, and Phlox might be in the Brig with T'Pol. Archer may not even be dead, then. . .
Posted by Vice-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
Maybe Travis and She-Ho decided to have their way with him... It is the Mirror Universe after all.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
That Gorn - sans the Christina Aguilera make up - looks like it's got a light sabre hanging from it's belt! Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Back to the tech commentary:
-- It took four seasons, but they finally got Majel Barrett to do the computer's voice.
-- Considering the supreme technological advantage the Defiant had over the other ships (heck, it seemed like the rebels' weapons had no effect at all, and the Avenger's weapons only worked while the Defiant's shields were down!), I'm pretty sure that if there were to be another MU episode, it really would feature Empress She-Ho. Also, considering that the Empire seemed close to defeat by the rebels, it's reasonable that the Defiant became the ship that saved said Empire for the next 100+ years.
-- I'm not 100% sure, and it's hard to tell because of the angles and perspective, but were the relative sizes of the Avenger and the Defiant correct? The NX-class ship looked a bit smaller than it should've, IMO.
-- I never thought I'd ever want to see ENT's episodes provide evidence to override our previous conceptions of TOS (or more particularly, the common fan beliefs that I might disagree with), but I'm so glad to see that the Defiant actually had aft weaponry!
-- The escape from the Tholian spacedock also shows that the two forward phaser emitters can also be targeted independently. Cool, considering the weird firing angles from the old TOS effects!
-- Most of it is obviously the production values and 21st-century filming technology, but I'm still shocked to say that despite the nearly-identical design of the Defiant bridge, it still looked quite awesome, and even believable (compared to the relative cheesiness of the 60's set). Not that I'm saying TOS sucked because of that, at all, just that making a side-by-side comparison of the two ships' interiors was quite favorable for both!
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
I'd say lighting had lots to do with it. Had the corridors and bridge and everything been lit as they were in the 60s, the sets would have looked far more garish and colourful on our modern TVs and computer screens. The darker lighting created lots of shadows, which lowered the contrast and gave the sets much more depth than they really had. It's an old TV trick to disguise poor set design with lighting - in this case, our minds filled in the blanks and we remember a far cooler set than actually was there.
The Jeffries tube sets did impress me, too. They were designed far more modern than the TOS corridors, yet the look and placement of pipes and colour made it look right at home.
Mark
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
They really should have gotten the bridge railings right, though.
Yes, I am aware that I am a huge dork.
-MMoM Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Just chalk it down to another missed opportunity. . . Like the title of this thread. 8)
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
This from the man who came up with "Melting Wax Tech!" for the "Daedalus" thread...
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Short, punchy, to-the-point. I rule!
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Lame.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Of course, it was Icarus' wings that melted, not Daedalus'.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
But Daedalus built them. CHECK SIR.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
But then surely "non-melting wax tech" would have made more sense. Or at least "wax-that-will-melt-if-you-get-it-too-hot-but-is-fine-as-long-as-you-take-adequate-precautions tech".
CHECKMATE.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
I would just like to take this opportunity to say:
God, I love this board.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
But the point is, Daedalus came up with the technology that then failed so spectacularly. And given the rather runny nature of the effects of the weird spatial anomaly, talking about melting wax was really quite prescient, if I say so myself. But "Am I seeing double, or is it just a tech-reflection?" What the fuck is that?
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
It's the second of two (double) parts with the same tech, dealing with the Mirror Universe.
WHY SO DIFFICULT?
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Daedalus' wax worked fine for him though. It was just Icaruss folly that caused his demise. Blaming the wax is like blaiming the car for not saving you when you drive over a cliff.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
real humor > "funny" title puns
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Do not interupt our conversation on Icarus and Daedalus' brave but perilous plan unless you have something to add, Mr Canada.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Blaming Daedalus is like blaming the Professor when Gilligan ruins a plan to get off the island.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
But we (unfortunately) never get to see Gilligan go down in angony and flames. As he so deserved.
I'm not objective, as I knew a kid named Icarus and he was kinda a sad loner type (with a name like that, who can blame him). Kids called him "Ick" when he demanded "Chris".
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: Back to the tech commentary:
-- I never thought I'd ever want to see ENT's episodes provide evidence to override our previous conceptions of TOS (or more particularly, the common fan beliefs that I might disagree with), but I'm so glad to see that the Defiant actually had aft weaponry!
I think that line by Archer - "Does this ship have aft weapons" and Reed says "Does she ever" - was DIRECTLY aimed at tech fans!
quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: Back to the tech commentary:
-- Most of it is obviously the production values and 21st-century filming technology, but I'm still shocked to say that despite the nearly-identical design of the Defiant bridge, it still looked quite awesome, and even believable (compared to the relative cheesiness of the 60's set). Not that I'm saying TOS sucked because of that, at all, just that making a side-by-side comparison of the two ships' interiors was quite favorable for both!
Yes I noticed the ship wasn't lit in those garish gels. BUT ALSO you have to remember - the film grain used is different - maybe if TOS was shot in the same grain as TV is shot today - it might not look as dated? Perhaps?
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That is, two single aft emitters exactly where they are in the TMP refit, and two side-by-side emitters forward of the primary hull dome. Only visible when firing, apparently.
Both bios were slapped together hastily and weren't approved by the exec producers. Some trivia -- the name of Hoshi's "husband" was cobbled together from actors in some favorite Japanese films -- Hoshi and Linda Park share the same birthday.