I know it was meant to be an abscure ship, but still what gives with the 3rd nacelle. Doesn't that break Roddenbury's rule.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Yawn. Old news. Don't you have the DS9:TM? Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
I don't but I'm aware of it. So if this is old news then what was the general consensus on the ship having a third nacelle?
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Ahem. The "Medusa" design kicks ass- I really dig it- far moreso than many other more popular kitbash designs (Challenger, Centaur, etc.). The design makes a lot of sense if you think a third nacelle can reduce the overall workload by a third (allowing a greater duration of high warp speeds). Particularly when you consider the amount of time it would take to cross the U.F.P.
I've seen the ship configured with the third nacelle "up", but that looks like total shit, so I built mine "nacelle down" for that Oberth look I like so much. Look at it as generational predesessor to the Niagara class.
As to artistic liscence, I made a few practical revisions- a connie refit bridge (the incorrectly scaled Excelsior bridge bugs me no end) and a few landing pads on the dorsal saucer mostly.
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
Unfortunately, nobody has ever found evidence of this model in a episode. However, if you want a fully canon ship with a 3rd nacelle, you have the Niagara.
Posted by Captain Boh (Member # 1282) on :
I don't have any real problems, the parts at least work together.
I'm more partial to 4 nacelled ships though.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
And besides, the "Roddenberry rules", even if they were ever spouted out by the Great Bird, are a load of childish crap, aimed specifically at discrediting Franz Joseph's work. Down with this sort of thing!
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I built the Niagara too- it actually took a bit more tweaking of the design to make ir practical- mainly the dorsal nacelles needed to be moved back a bit so as to not overhang the saucer (blocking the studio model's rear phasers completely!). Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Also, you seem to have added an impulse engine, you weirdo you...
Your Medusa looks sinfully good. I think it would have been an improvement had that been the ship our TNG heroes flew. And I kid not.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Yeah. I might need to bug you for hi-rez saucer details when I get Karl to build a Medusa for Wof 359.
Mark
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Yeah Jason nice Medusa. Okay, I'm done with this ship now.
Edit: BTW Jason you wouldn't have a website where you post picks of all your models would you?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Well, they mustn't like 3 nacelles in someways since Reg says to Janeway in "Endgame" he'd be a 'third nacelle' - like a third wheel - something that is unnecessary.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
...Not that the current saying would have stopped the manufacture of three-wheel vehicles.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Lurker Emeritus (Member # 1888) on :
WARNING: Another lengthy post by Lurker!
Would like to add my congratulations on a carnally thermic model, there, Jason.
The main quibble I've usually had with three nacelle designs is that in most of them you get the sense that if the third nacelle wasn't there, the model would have an engineering hull instead. You could argue the same with the Medusa because in some ways it looks over-engineered compared to the upper pair of nacelles. It has two separate struts, for instance, and is positioned much further away from the saucer. My first reaction was that the model would look just as good with something like a modified Oberth secondary hull with a constitution or excelsior style deflector dish molded into the front. The model would then have all the traditional components of the original Trek frame of reference. In fact, it would be a more believable design than even the traditional connie layout as the nacelles would not look so precariously attached and it would retain a sense that the design has a centre of gravity at least somewhere close to the position of the impulse engines, which makes for a nice sense of balance, I think.
My second thought, however, was a justification for the third nacelle, which could perhaps even be used to counter Berkley's remark to Janeway quoted above. That is, the third nacelle, rather than "taking the strain" off the other two and presumably improving efficiency, could in fact be a big warp drive nitrous oxide gas boost! This would explain why the struts are more heavily engineered as well. The idea is that this third nacelle gives the Medusa an extremely high sprint speed. The twin struts are necessary to handle the increased flow rate of warp plasma and to counteract structural stresses at high speeds. Rather than Medusa, you might instead rename it Roadrunner! ;-)
That's a nice Naigara model too. I particularly like it as it obscures that awkward attachment point of the lower nacelle strut. I never liked the way it just penetrated the aft engineering hull scoop because there was no apparent alterations made to the hull to account for it. For instance, the hangar is unchanged, but surely this means there's a bloody great warp nacelle strut and plasma conduits running right through the middle of the hangar deck! If they moved or removed the hangar and rounded out the scoop so that the lower strut meets the hull in the same way that the other two do, then I'd give the design a pass Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
quote:Originally posted by Timo: ...Not that the current saying would have stopped the manufacture of three-wheel vehicles.
Timo Saloniemi
Besides, third wheels aren't unecessary, they're just not as practical as two, or four.
Maybe it's somehow the same with nacelles. Maybe having three nacelles(or only one) just isn't as stable or efficient for some reason.
Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
Just to pick nits... The bottom of the ship is the ventral side, not the dorsal.
Dorsal means posterior portion of a biped, but the top back region of a quadraped or fish. The dorsal fin is the top fin on a shark or dolphin, for example.
Still, those are great models.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mars Needs Women: Yeah Jason nice Medusa. Okay, I'm done with this ship now.
Edit: BTW Jason you wouldn't have a website where you post picks of all your models would you?
Sure. Though it's not nearly all of them- I only have so much space allotted at that site.
I'd happily take pics of any ships you want to see, Mark! Longtime (absent/newlywed) member Soundeffect also made a Medusa (though in a much larger scale)
The Niagara looks really good (to me) from almost any position other than the one used onscreen (and in that pic of that dude holding the model). Design-wise, a refit of this class would definitely benifit from the Venture's nacelle-phaser-pods.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
I'll have to dig out pics of my USS Demeter when I'm not at work. I mmade it a Merced-class ship that is similar in lines to Niagara with enough small differences to warrant the separate class name.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
It'd be nice to see someone do a MSD of the Niagra - especially how the warp core deals with the three nacelle power conduits.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Instead of a Y it is a Ψ.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I imagine their main engineering centered in the secondary hull- with the lead to te impulse engines running up through the secondary hull. Instead of "downward" the core could eject "up" to a shaft just fore of the impulse engine on the saucer's dorsal side.
Posted by Lurker Emeritus (Member # 1888) on :
But what about the hangar bay? Looking at this page, particularly the image below, you can see how the struts all come together right in that part of the engineering hull that we expect the hangar to occupy.
Hmm... I've just noticed that this model doesn't have impulse engines.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Yeah, but even with a shortened hangar (due to the pylon) the hangar is still far larger than the one seen in TMP- probably five times as wide. Combine that with te shuttllebay on the dorsal sauer (facing forward!) and you have all the ship's requirements handled.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon:
quote:Originally posted by Mars Needs Women: Yeah Jason nice Medusa. Okay, I'm done with this ship now.
Edit: BTW Jason you wouldn't have a website where you post picks of all your models would you?
Sure. Though it's not nearly all of them- I only have so much space allotted at that site.
I'd happily take pics of any ships you want to see, Mark! Longtime (absent/newlywed) member Soundeffect also made a Medusa (though in a much larger scale)
The Niagara looks really good (to me) from almost any position other than the one used onscreen (and in that pic of that dude holding the model). Design-wise, a refit of this class would definitely benifit from the Venture's nacelle-phaser-pods.
Well thanks for the site. I have to ask, do you make these from scratch or do you buy the from somewhere?
Posted by Lurker Emeritus (Member # 1888) on :
Those are some very impressive models there, especially so in the detailing, considering the size.
Posted by Lurker Emeritus (Member # 1888) on :
Sorry... I must be very immature, but does that not look, well, evocative to anyone else? ;-)
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
I also came up with this background: A derivative design of the Niagara-class, the Merced-class is a "fast cruiser" used for swift transport & response. Measuring 478 meters long, 312 meters in width, & 64 meters in draught, they are 17 decks & weighing about 1.465 million metric tons. Intended for long-range scouting & quick internal transport, Merceds are often seen running between starbases or along the frontier, returning from exploration beyond the rim. In wartime, their tri-engined hulls afford them enough speed to work as advance scouts. During the Dominion War, several Merceds were deployed with as many as 20 of the much smaller Peashooter-class scouts to act as a mobile base of operations for the smaller craft.
Basically I went the cheap, easy & sloppy route.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Still not bad.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Sweet model, Shikkie! I had forgotten that we model in the scame scale (though I still have your old site bookmarked). YOu should get back into modeling now that the styrene stets you used to kitbash from are available again (dirt cheap too!).
Lurker, a bunch of my models are kits, some resin, some not, and still a bunch more are scracthbuilds or "scratchbashes" where some parts are from kits, and still others are scratchbuilds that have been made into kits by various companies. Most of my more recent stuff are kits though- I just dont have as much time for modeling as I used to!
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Nice model. Did you carve it out of a bar of soap while you were in the joint?
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Zing! Two Shik jokes in one day!
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
I don't build anymore, Jason. Nowhere to leave stuff, not enough time, not enough money, can't be bothered, etc. I just don't care anymore. Haven't for a long, long time.
That's about 3 years pre-klink, my lemon-faced liege.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
And just to answer Mars' original question... "Roddenberry's Rules of Starship Design" were concocted to discredit Franz Josef's designs from the ST:TM after the two of them had a professional falling out in the early '80s.
--Jonah
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Okay so I guess nowadays we can whole-heartedly disregard da rules. Thanks!
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
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