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<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1" width="95%" align="center"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"><td> <table border="0" width="100%" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"> <td colspan="2" align="left"> <font size="3" color="#FFFFFF" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>T O P I C ��� R E V I E W</b> </font></td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Guardian 2000</b> <br /><small>Member # 743</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2007,4,21,19,20,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">May 21, 2007</span> <span class="timeformat-0">07:20 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I've searched a bit but found no reference to this on Flare, or anywhere else for that matter:<br /><br /><a href="http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=86&pos=387" target="_blank">TrekCore screencap</a><br /><br />That's the ship of Duras from "Judgement", supposedly a D-5. <br /><br /><a href="http://flare.solareclipse.net/ultimatebb.php/topic/6/2614/2.html" target="_blank">Earlier threads</a> have suggested a size of 143.7 meters for the ship, but Bernd has noted that the D-5 tanker-ship's smallish crew of 12 is contrary to a cruiser's expected crew complement.<br /><br />If a D-5 is really only 70 meters long, this would explain why. The D-5 may even be thought of as something akin to a proto-BoP . . . after all, one would hardly expect a guy to strap tanks onto the latest and greatest type of vessel.<br /><br />The picture of the 2150's fleet of the Klingon Empire would thus look something like this:<br /><br />D-5s . . . small, 70m ships, possibly an older design, though still capable of kicking Enterprise's ass). Duras had one, but to go after Archer they evidently gave him a larger . . .<br /><br />BoP . . . ~115m per Bernd.<br /><br />Raptor . . . ~145m per Bernd, though I guess that's derived from the thread I linked to above where the D-5 is also ~145m.<br /><br />Battlecruiser (D-4, we can pretend) . . . ~225m or so.<br /><br />Of course, there is counter-evidence:<br /><br />1. T'Pol describes the D-5 as a battlecruiser. <br /><br />2. Kor describes the D-5 as an 'old cruiser'.<br /><br />3. Duras got busted in rank to weapons officer. It seems odd that they'd give him a bigger ship after that to pursue Archer.<br /><br />Thoughts? <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>MinutiaeMan</b> <br /><small>Member # 444</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2007,4,21,19,39,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">May 21, 2007</span> <span class="timeformat-0">07:39 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Why does everyone have to assume that the ship in "Marauders" was an official design? Obviously that Klingon captain was operating under the radar... probably he had a stolen/decommissioned/reserve/whatever hull and had duct-taped on a bunch of tanks to make off with his stolen booty. As for the crew complement, hell, even in contemporary times, the NX-01 ran for a couple months with just ONE PERSON at the controls; undermanned, highly-automated ships are commonplace in Trek, going all the way back to "The Search for Spock"... why must the raiding crew of twelve be considered a standard complement?<br /><br />Screenshots from many episodes suggest the D5 was a much larger ship, either as big as or bigger than the NX-01. That technical screenshot was probably never even meant to be seen so close-up, anyway.<br /><br />I have no idea how big the ship would actually be, but ~200 meters would be a good bet. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>AndrewR</b> <br /><small>Member # 44</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2007,4,22,3,38,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">May 22, 2007</span> <span class="timeformat-0">03:38 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> It looks like a Dominion ship with those nacelles.<br /><br />It says "Vessel Class: Classified" - maybe Classified = don't know! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" /> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>B.J.</b> <br /><small>Member # 858</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2007,4,22,6,17,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">May 22, 2007</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:17 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Here's that "official" comparison chart created by Rob Bonchune in the earlier thread:<br /> <a href="http://httphttp://flareupload.pleh.net/uploads/858/ent-sizecomp.jpg" target="_blank"> <img src="http://flareupload.pleh.net/thumbs/858/ent-sizecomp.png" alt=" - " /></a><br />I put "official" in quotes because there's never been 100% consistency between the VFX animators.<br /><br />That said, my impression of the sizes as shown on screen is that the D5 is slightly bigger than Enterprise, with the BoP slightly smaller, and the Raptor smaller than that. I'm actally reluctant to make the BoP that big, but I just watched "Borderland" last night, and it's pretty big next to the Enterprise. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Bernd</b> <br /><small>Member # 6</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2007,4,25,0,34,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">May 25, 2007</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:34 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> The BoP may have been scaled just for "Borderland" and "Cold Station 12" because in the latter episode the ship would need to accommodate a fairly large Denobulan ship in the shuttlebay.<br /><br />My length for the Raptor is 145m like on the chart just because there is no real clue, except that the ship was apparently weaker than Enterprise, while the D5 was at least a match. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Masao</b> <br /><small>Member # 232</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2007,4,25,5,44,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">May 25, 2007</span> <span class="timeformat-0">05:44 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Gee, what's the deal with all those sickle-shaped nacelles?<br /><br />PS: BJ, that link has a few extra "http"s in it. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>B.J.</b> <br /><small>Member # 858</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2007,4,25,6,23,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">May 25, 2007</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:23 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Masao:<br /><strong>PS: BJ, that link has a few extra "http"s in it. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oops. Can't edit the original, so here's a better link:<br /><a href="http://flareupload.pleh.net/uploads/858/ent-sizecomp.jpg" target="_blank"> <img src="http://flareupload.pleh.net/thumbs/858/ent-sizecomp.png" alt=" - " /></a> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Guardian 2000</b> <br /><small>Member # 743</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2007,4,25,22,55,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">May 25, 2007</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:55 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Bernd:<br /><strong>My length for the Raptor is 145m like on the chart just because there is no real clue, except that the ship was apparently weaker than Enterprise, while the D5 was at least a match. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I always thought the Raptor was only weaker after emerging from the gas giant because it had been largely smushed and had expended all its heavy weapons. It'd be like a rusted-out barely-running dear-heavens-how-is-it-staying-together Hummer in a head-on with a new Miata. The Miata might actually make it, simply 'cause the Hummer would largely disassemble itself on impact. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>AndrewR</b> <br /><small>Member # 44</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2007,4,26,3,13,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">May 26, 2007</span> <span class="timeformat-0">03:13 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Would have been nice to see him include the Terellian ship. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Jason Abbadon</b> <br /><small>Member # 882</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2007,5,17,13,8,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">June 17, 2007</span> <span class="timeformat-0">01:08 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by B.J.:<br /><strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Masao:<br /><strong>PS: BJ, that link has a few extra "http"s in it. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oops. Can't edit the original, so here's a better link:<br /><a href="http://flareupload.pleh.net/uploads/858/ent-sizecomp.jpg" target="_blank"> <img src="http://flareupload.pleh.net/thumbs/858/ent-sizecomp.png" alt=" - " /></a> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">A goofy comparison- the RBOP is (sadly) much larger than that- just watch the shot of it passing over the Enterprise.<br />The Andorian ship is larger as well.<br />The raptor should indeed by about 70 meters long- a pal o' mine, Nova Hobbies got an "official" length prior to making his (tiny! it's 3" long) Raptor model in 1400th scale. <br /> </font> </td></tr> </table></td></tr></table> <br /> <br />
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