I still need to correct the image heading of the "Generations" screen cap because it shows the 6ft model again (obviously, because there are no raised panels visible). However, as the model was almost always filmed upside down, we rarely see the top of the saucer or a head-on view of the ship. I sifted throught the episode screen caps at TrekCore but found only some small views of either the old 6ft or the new 4ft model. The one from "The Big Good-Bye" seems to be the best by far. Maybe someone remembers a great top or front view of the ship?
(Note that, while the 4ft model replaced the 6ft model in all new shots, stock footage from the first season is shown until the end of the series, so basically any model may appear any time, only the first season is completely with the thin rim.)
Also, while it is obvious that two different heights of the rim exist (its height has doubled on the 4ft model relative to the 6ft model), I am not so sure about the Nebula class any longer. http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/nebula.htm
On the Nebula the saucer rim always appeared taller to me than on the Galaxy, but could it be that I was just comparing it to the 6ft model with its low rim? On the other hand, on this picture I think we see the 4ft model of the Galaxy class: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/nebula/nebula-galaxy-ventral.jpg
What do you all think?
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
Update: I have added several pictures and corrected a few things.
Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
I read your article yesterday and was surprised at how much of a discrepancy there is between the different models. I suppose I'd always been peripherally aware that the 4 ft was bumpier, but I hadn't paid enough interest to see what exactly was going on there.
Anyway, I don't think this is quite what you're looking for, but I know that every resource can be helpful in putting together a picture of how a physical object is constructed.
I found this photo a while ago on Flickr and haven't seen it anywhere else. Could do with being sharper, but maybe you can glean something from it.
Just a thought, but could Probert's "saucer rim/Observation corridor" concept live on in the likes of the Cheyenne and New Orleans, or are those rims too thin as well?
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
The Cheyenne definitely is too thin, and there are no windows on the rim. The NO, maybe.
--Jonah
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
We don't really know how thick the rim is on the Cheyenne. If there were windows, it may be possible. The New Orleans is a definite candidate because the overall dimensions were roughly halved (by combining the windows of two decks to one). But there are no windows either.
That's a great photo, Johnny! Just what I was looking for to illustrate the model sizes.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
This is the unmodified image from the Behind-the-Scenes card set. Seems pretty straightforward. Wndows on the dorsal bulge at least, probably ventral, too, but none on the flat rim.
--Jonah
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
Since this seems to be the only photo that exists of the Cheyenne model, I based my whole reconstruction on it. I assumed that the rim is thicker compare to the Galaxy class. I don't remember exactly where the idea comes from though.
Anyone have the 1/2500 scale model of the Enterprise-D? Is the groove (the sensor strip) part of the upper or the lower half of the saucer? In the first case, Miarecki may have inserted a gap made of polystyrene strips between the two lower halves he used, because otherwise they would have been flush. In the latter case the gap between the two halves would be naturally wider unless he filed it down.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bernd: Anyone have the 1/2500 scale model of the Enterprise-D? Is the groove (the sensor strip) part of the upper or the lower half of the saucer? In the first case, Miarecki may have inserted a gap made of polystyrene strips between the two lower halves he used, because otherwise they would have been flush. In the latter case the gap between the two halves would be naturally wider unless he filed it down.
It's part of the upper half. There is indeed a very obvious styrene spacer set in there to make a full deck height.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Agreed- there is a spacer there- otherwise the saucer's edge is razor-thin. As to the Observation corridor idea, it's not impossible that there are (Enterprise A sized)porthole-sized windows there that would not show up on so small a model.
More likely, the saucer's rim serves as a sensor- something to replace the old ventral sensor on starships like the Connie or Excelsior class. Possibly a targeting sensor for the saucer's phasers, or even the field emitter for the ship's shields (my personal favorite idea).
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Well, my thinking was that regardless to whether they're on the models or not, the structure is to the right scale so that if someone were to build a proper model (3D or plastic) the details could be added to reflect Probert's corridor concept. after all these were just low detail study models, so there's room for interpretation.
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
quote:It's part of the upper half. There is indeed a very obvious styrene spacer set in there to make a full deck height.
That may have been the reason why I assumed the gap is relatively wider than on the GCS. It's been a long time...
quote:Well, my thinking was that regardless to whether they're on the models or not, the structure is to the right scale so that if someone were to build a proper model (3D or plastic) the details could be added to reflect Probert's corridor concept. after all these were just low detail study models, so there's room for interpretation.
Agreed. The 1/2500 scale model simply can't show all the details to make the ship credible. Some bigger models are even less suited for display on screen. *cough* DS9TM *cough*.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Well, I'm making a re-creation of this 1:1400 Cheyenne. As a study model, the detial is lacking, but it's fun to fix things. Sanding off the raised shield grid, and scoring it instead. Making a smoother join between the bridge module and the saucer. Adding a narrow "neck" over the bussard coils so there's actually a proper attach point for the nacelles. Things lie that. Add the mottled hull-plate effect, and it'll be pretty sweet.
--JOnah
Posted by Mirror-Amasov (Member # 742) on :
Just to add my 2 Quatloos, I always liked the way the older Nebula-version had less windows on its upper saucer. Made it look more like a "real" starship and less like a 24th century starliner... thinking of it, "too many windows" was one of the few things I hated about the Galaxy, in comparison to the 1701 and the A. You don't need to do that to get a sense of scope and largeness. Maybe I'll prep an image of a window-reduced Galaxy, just to see how it looks...
PS: I just checked the other thread about the lost FC-designs. 4 years. Can't believe it...
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
The huge windows on the Galaxy are annoying- the ventral windows are several decks high, while many can only be skylights (or possibly windows for rooms with varible gravity- rooms ar right angles to the door).
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Or they're for larger open spaces than we've seen on the E-D. If I recall Probert had intended for the Galaxy to have a large Promenade like area, which makes sense, with a ship that large there's plenty of spare volume for a two or three deck open space. As for all the windows, I tend to think there's a psychological element to that. Specifically of a ship as big and as complex as the Galaxy it'd be easy to get claustrophobic, especially since a good percentage of the ship's include civilians it's a bigger concern than it would be if it was an all Starfleet crew. So I think it's fair to say that they put windows wherever they can and try to arrange the internal layout so quarters and rec areas are closer to the hull. It's one of the reasons I get a little annoyed when they put paintings of space scenes in all the quarters. I'd be more sensible to have pictures of familiar landscapes if you ask me.
Posted by bX (Member # 419) on :
Or with the prevalence of display technology, some kind of panel (holo?) display which could simulate a window (any window really). All of which gets away from the real reason: They wanted the ship to look huge and densely populated. Which it does. I always wanted to see an episode where for once the sensors go out and the captain orders everyone to go look out their windows to try and spot the bad guys hunting them in the nebula or whatever it was that week.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
If it were the Voyager era, I might agree, however in TNG holo-technology was nowhere near as prevalent. If I recall, the pilot features Riker's first visit to a holodeck.
As for looking out the window, I recall they did that a few times, though I think Picard specifically had Geordie go take a look. It might have been the one with the space station/god and the Logans run rejects with a Texan zeal for capital punishment, not sure exactly.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
quote:If I recall, the pilot features Riker's first visit to a holodeck.
Possibly. Or then it was his first visit to a digital high-definition technicolor holodeck. Sure, he's awed - but possibly by the program rather than by the machinery. While Data preaches to him like talking to a complete noob, all Riker has to say on the matter is "I didn't believe these could be so real". Perhaps he's been using a much crappier set on the Hood until then.
One wonders what he'd think of real windows. The Excelsior and Oberth classes wouldn't have too many of those; did his previous assignments on those kinds of ship warrant him a view?
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
When Data took over the ship due to Soong's programming, Riker did say that the only way they knew they had dropped out of warp was somebody looked out a window.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by Timo:
quote:If I recall, the pilot features Riker's first visit to a holodeck.
Possibly. Or then it was his first visit to a digital high-definition technicolor holodeck. Sure, he's awed - but possibly by the program rather than by the machinery. While Data preaches to him like talking to a complete noob, all Riker has to say on the matter is "I didn't believe these could be so real". Perhaps he's been using a much crappier set on the Hood until then.
One wonders what he'd think of real windows. The Excelsior and Oberth classes wouldn't have too many of those; did his previous assignments on those kinds of ship warrant him a view?
Timo Saloniemi
Well he was the XO of the Hood, so I should think so. Having said that, Sulu's quarters on the Excelsior didn't have a window (given that the set was a re-use of Kirk's, I believe) so who knows. Perhaps windows are reserved for communal areas.
I should also point out that we have seen quarters on the E-D which didn't have any windows, holographic or otherwise. Worf, Data & Geordi's spring to mind, to say nothing of the junior officers quarters from "Lower Decks".
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Worf's, Goerdi's, and Data's were reuses of the movie officer's quarters set, but purportedly were in the Deck 2 superstructure, with skylights instead of windows, which we never saw, because we never saw the full ceiling of those sets.
