It even includes everything thus far from TOSR. With nifty colors, too!
-MMoM Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Where did you get the NCC-330 Yorkshire from?
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
According to Michael Okuda, that's what the Antares-type ship in the remastered "Court Martial" (TOS) is labelled as.
You can see it (very far away from the camera) above the Enterprise and Intrepid in this screenshot.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
FUCK.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
I forgot to mention in the opening post that, although I have assigned a color for them in the key, I have yet to add information from Jeri Taylor's Pathways and Mosaic to this list. Mostly because it's been years since I read the first one and I never even finished the second one. If anyone is familiar with them and can give me page numbers where ships are mentioned, please feel free.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Heh. U.S.S. Voyeur. Boldly peeping where no Tom has peeped before.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
As in Tom Paris?
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
Another interesting thing Okuda mentioned is that both the Antares and the Yorkshire, while having NCC registries, do not have "U.S.S. ANTARES" or "U.S.S. YORKSHIRE" on their hulls as the Connies do. Rather, their names are in red script on the sides of the ships, a la the TOS shuttlecrafts, without any "U.S.S." or even "S.S," implying that they are either not true starships, or that their registration is Federation but not necessarily Starfleet, although they'd be considered Starfleet property as much as a shuttlecraft would be.
At least this kind of refutes the Antares-class U.S.S. Hermes from TNG as being the same type of ship as this.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
I don't think either of those options makes much sense, though. It doesn't seem from the dialogue in "Charlie X" that the Antares is being deployed from a mother ship, but rather operates independently. So they aren't shuttles. And if they are non-Starfleet, why do they have NCC registries and Starfleet signage?
My guess is that they are perhaps older vessels that are now relegated to support duties. This is supported by the low registry numbers, the old-style uniform worn by Ramart, and the lack of a USS prefix. We know that in the ENT era, SF didn't use prefixes and by the time of "The Cage" they did. These vessels would be from sometime after the former and before the latter.
Somehow this probably ties in with the similar-looking automated drone ships from "More Tribbles, More Troubles" (TAS) as well, but I'm not entirely sure of exactly how at this point. There's the additional fact that both of those vessels were marked with the same NCC-G1465 registry. There may also be some tie with the special registries (with letter designations) used by support vessels in TAS. Maybe SF was trying to figure out how best to transition between practices and was reclassifying older vessels as part of the practice? I really don't know.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
But in the ENT era, it wasn't the same Starfleet. Human Starfleet != Federation Starfleet. And I thought TAS was non-canon?
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
*sigh*
There was NEVER any intention whatsoever on the part of anyone associated with the production of ENT for that show's Starfleet to be a different organization than the one of the rest of Trek. It was ALWAYS intended for it to be the same organization in its early stages. The idea that it's somehow a separate entity with the same name was proposed bt FANS on this very message board to "explain" what were thought of at the time as continuity errors in the new show.
TAS was declared noncanonical by Gene Roddenberry because he and DC Fontana had a falling out (same as with Franz Joseph and the 3-nacelle rule) and because he wanted a clean slate to work with on TNG (he also substantially barred the show from referencing TOS while he was in control). His stooge "archivist" Richard Arnold carried on this ridiculous "official" position long after Roddenberry's death, but all the while DS9 and later ENT (and now TOSR) were including TAS references. Now that the show has been released on DVD with the other series, it's pretty much back to canonical status by default. The DVDs even came packaged with liner notes to that effect.
In any case, though, the main objective behind color coding the data in my list was to avoid just these kinds of arguments. If you refuse to accept TAS, just ignore the light blue stuff. If you refuse to accept the Encyclopedia and other conjectural materials, ignore the gray stuff. Etc. Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
I had to justify the Yorkshire name for inclusion in my Draylax-class surveyors. Lame, but I managed to convince myself.
Wanted to ask, though.."Emmette?"
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I just have one question : Why would you assume that, just because the ship doesn't have "U. S. S." painted on it, there's definitely no "USS" in the ship's name?
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Well, I really don't like the idea of human Starfleet becoming the exact same as Federation Starfleet. That just really underscores the "Homo sapiens-only club" aspect of the Federation. I'd rather believe it isn't the same.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shik: Wanted to ask, though.."Emmette?"
Apparently that's what the delta-shaped ship with the Star Destroyer engines seen flying over the Moon in the opening credits of ENT was called by the VFX guys behind the scenes.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN: I just have one question : Why would you assume that, just because the ship doesn't have "U. S. S." painted on it, there's definitely no "USS" in the ship's name?
If you're referring to the Antares, all we really have to go on is what Okuda said:
"We're using the red script names (similar to the original shuttles) on the sides of these ships, with no 'USS' prefix, so it's ambiguous as to whether these are Starfleet or merely of Federation registry."
So it's ambiguous.
quote:Originally posted by Daniel Butler: Well, I really don't like the idea of human Starfleet becoming the exact same as Federation Starfleet. That just really underscores the "Homo sapiens-only club" aspect of the Federation. I'd rather believe it isn't the same.
Earth played an instrumental role in the founding of the Federation (there's no way the Tellerites, Andorians, and Vulcans would have successfully banded together if not for Earth's mitigating presence) and afterwards Earth became the capital of the UFP. Earth's space navy, Starfleet, expanded to include and absorb those of the other member worlds. Of course, it still seems that there are also native defense forces in addition to SF, but humans make up the majority of SF, "Federation Standard English" is the official language, etc. That may seem odd to some but that's the way it's been consistently portrayed throughout the various series and films.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Nice list. Looks a lot like my own, which started life as Tim's but has evolved since then (but hasn't been updated in ages, now, I really must get to it). Houbolt/Gihlan? Don't think I remember the G'mat either. And I note there's an Excalibur of some new design in the latest Star Trek Online shots. . .
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Houbolt/Gihlan was a Constellation class ship mentioned by Sternbach in his article on Constellation class ships in the Star Trek Magazine. He indicated it was one of the ships built of the class and was renamed for Commodore Gihlan who intiated the development project. G'Mat was on one of those lists that Sisko had on incoming and outgoing station traffic.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lee: Nice list. Looks a lot like my own, which started life as Tim's but has evolved since then (but hasn't been updated in ages, now, I really must get to it). Houbolt/Gihlan? Don't think I remember the G'mat either. And I note there's an Excalibur of some new design in the latest Star Trek Online shots. . .
Thanks. ST Online is definitely noncanonical, isn't it?
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Who gets to decide what's canonical, anyway? I mean with no shows currently in production, and different producers having worked on all of them, and Gene not exactly around to say anything about it...is it just fan consensus? Or what?
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
I guess it's pretty much what's always been canonical is and what has always been noncanonical isn't, until/unless something gets changed. (The recent recanonization of TAS and the potential continuity issues with the upcoming film for example.) Games, novels, etc. have always been noncanonical.
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
Although with the number of people that add those ships to their lists shouldn't sub-canonical be used? They are part of the franchise, just not the sit and watch kind.
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