Don't know if anyone has posted about this before, but I found a website with pics of the Kzinti "Darkstalker" that would have debuted in the fifth season of Enterprise had it not been cancelled. One only wonders what the Kzinti themselves would have looked like...
Cool. Kind of looks like a submarine.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Probably would've looked like humanoid cats ...
Ship looks like a lobster.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
I was thinking this was the offspring of Vulcan and Andorian starships.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Wasn't there some legal reason why they couldn't use Kzinti in DS9, which is why they were called Tzenkethi instead? So what would have changed to allow ENT to use them?
Posted by OverRon (Member # 2036) on :
Heh, that looks like it wouldn't be out place as a vehicle from X-Com Apocalypse.
Posted by Kobi (Member # 1360) on :
The ship is indeed old news, I had contact with the creator Jimmy Diggs and he confirmed that it was intented do be used in Season 5, parts of the production (among it Kzinti appearence) was based on a previous possible feature film. [1]
Further more there were no legal issues regarding the name [2].
Also the episode is currently in pre-production to be used as a New Voyages/Phase II episode. [3]
*Thank you for your attention*
Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
I imagine they still would have changed the name, though? The producers always seemed very wary (overly so!) of viewers getting confused and having a major new species called the Kzinti would no doubt confuse a lot of casual viewers who'd become used to the Enterprise crew having encounters with the Xindi.
Posted by Sean (Member # 2010) on :
Yeah, but we might have ended up with another "Tarkaelian, Tolosian, Tkzintialian" race. As long as they are clearly two different entities, and are distinguishable from eachother in looks, or ship design, etc, I don't think it would be that confusing.
Posted by Toadkiller (Member # 425) on :
Why don't they just use "Caitian"?
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
Caitian != Kzinti/Tzenkethi
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Really? I though Caitians were a separate species? They looked like they evolved from domestic cats, while Kzinti has a more feral look.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
That's presumably why he said they are not equal to one another.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
I thought "=" meant equal. Maybe he should have used an "≠".
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
!= is for people who can't do ≠. How long have you been on the internet again?
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Less than ten years, roughly.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Fabrux: I think the Caitian connection comes from Niven. My comment did, anyway.
!= is what's used in computer programming, by the way, Mars. It comes from ! meaning "not" in Boolean algebra/logic.
Posted by Kobi (Member # 1360) on :
quote:Originally posted by Johnny: I imagine they still would have changed the name, though? The producers always seemed very wary (overly so!) of viewers getting confused and having a major new species called the Kzinti would no doubt confuse a lot of casual viewers who'd become used to the Enterprise crew having encounters with the Xindi.
Nope, there is not one single page addressing changing the name in the guide I have at my hands. Even more, there are contributions from Niven himself in it.
Also please be aware that the Tzenkethi were at no time a substitution for the Kzinti. [1] So the correct inequation is Caitians ≠ Kzinti ≠ Tzenkethi ≠ Caitians
While I sadly miss the fifth season of Enterprise that could have been, I am glad that the Kzinti never made it to the screen. I see no reason to incorporate stuff from the one TAS episode that is definitely irreconcilable with the rest of Trek.
Well, and the starship looks like a submarine indeed. Trek goes steampunk? No thanks.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Well if they got the same treatment as the Gorn, Tholians and the like then it could work. Not that I'm a huge fan of TAS, for the most part, that series is best left in the apocrypha of Trek canon.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
That makes two of us. I mean the ship designs are nice, but that's about it.
Posted by Kobi (Member # 1360) on :
I think the Kzinti would have been the much better choice for recurring villains in the first place. At least they were somehow established to be around in the 21st century. Also there was literally nothing established about them, except that they were mean.
Regarding the vessel, note that it might not reflect the final design, even though Jimmy Diggs had put a lot of thought into it already.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
I keep meaning to watch TAS just for the fun of it. I didn't even know it existed till a couple of years ago - I guess it must be pretty bad since I've never even heard a whisper of it on TV, and the local affiliates can't stop re-running their favorite 5 episodes of the other series. Serieses. Serials. There. Britain saves the day.
Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
My wife bought me the TAS for our anniversary last year. It's not bad and actually works rather well with established TOS continuity. Other elements from TAS are being worked in by writers into subsequent Trek episodes.
Some of it's a little goofy and cartoonish. The episodes are only half-hour and they don't allow much in the way of character development.
But I wouldn't throw this baby out with the bathwater.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:I keep meaning to watch TAS just for the fun of it. I didn't even know it existed till a couple of years ago - I guess it must be pretty bad since I've never even heard a whisper of it on TV, and the local affiliates can't stop re-running their favorite 5 episodes of the other series.
How "bad" it is depends on your point of view. If you accept it for its original intention (a kid's cartoon show), then it was fine. If you accept it for what hard-core Trekkies (and Paramount) are trying to tote it as (a canon continuation of the original series' last two years of the five-year mission), then it falls flat.
Now that being said, I would have definitely liked to have seen the Kzinti in Enterprise season Five. Despite the crudity of TAS, there has been a wealth of non-canon speculation about them, and having them actually show up in the series (like the Gorn and Tholians), would give them a legitimacy in the ST universe that they never truly had.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Ship looks like something Ming The Merciless would captain. Not real great.
My loathing for Kzinti, Catian and anything derived from domestic animals is on record.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Seconded...though it depends on how well it's realised.
Mind you I just the other day claimed my support for the idea that Berengarians are large flying reptiles, possibly of the fire breathing variety so I don't know how I can justify one and not the other.
As for TAS in general, while there are ELEMENTS of it that are ok. Specifically SOME of the designs (weird shuttles not included) and most of the episode "Yesteryear" (sans the framing story) is perfectly acceptable. But giant clones, doors you hum at to open and backwards universes are out.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Well, you know...kids show. Also, I think if you're going to make all your aliens look exactly like humans with a bit of makeup, and this one looks like a reptile, and that one looks like a bug, and so on...well you can't really complain if they make them look like domestic animals. It's really more fantasy monsters than scifi aliens.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Don't forget that one episode where the Enterprise creates an inflatable balloon version of itself.
You want this added to canon you say...
Posted by Zipacna (Member # 1881) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mars Needs Women: Don't forget that one episode where the Enterprise creates an inflatable balloon version of itself.
It's no more ridiculous than an alien culture stealing someone's brain...after that the Enterprise is entitled to go have a nervous breakdown and find comfort in a balloon. Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
There's just so much wrong here, more than I can ever list in this one post. Sure, TOS could be just as bad, but at least there wasn't any bad Scooby-Doo animation.
Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
I want to see this on Adult Swim. Now.
or was that the reason Paramount put it on DVD in the 1st place? Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Y'know, I was thinking the same thing. I mean if they could do for Peewee's Playhouse.
Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
no way would PeeWee (er?) would allow this. Too many chances to remind everyone about his masterbation habits... what i meant about Parahump is that since they are selling the TOS-A series on DVD's, they probably would not allow a parody series of Star Trek in such a fashion. (does anyone know the story on G4's parody clips with old school ST toy figures? Spock's Casa! Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Umm...What I meant was that if Adult Swim aired PeeWee's Playhouse, then it could also air TOS-A. Masturbation aside, TAS already does a good job of making fun of Trek.
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