I stumbled over the owner of the charts seen there, and the guy, he calls himself Captain Archer, took digital images of sections of the map, this one might be of interest to all of the starship names-collectors out there...
Thanks very much to Captain Archer!!!
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
We already had that info confirmed from Sternbach, but these are the first closeup pictures. I bet that's fairly readable on the Blu-ray of STXI, as well, so I'm looking forward to HD screencaps...
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I find it interesting that the Constitution silhouette that's used for most of the ships varies in size. That would seem to imply that they're not all Connies.
It's also cool that all the planets in the system are named. Is the star itself named? It's probably Beta Penthe.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Looks like it might be a binary system too. I forget, was there ever a space shot of Rura Penthe?
Posted by o2 (Member # 907) on :
quote:I bet that's fairly readable on the Blu-ray of STXI, as well, so I'm looking forward to HD screencaps... [/QB]
According to this review of ST VI, the picture quality is only 3 of 5.
So maybe we don't get the answer with this release of the movie...
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
More to the point, it says that the BluRay only has the theatrical cut, so that scene won't be in it at all.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Theatrical Cut= Lame.
Hmmm...the silouette size thing is a bit odd- maybe the Endeavour (shown larger) represents the mission's command ship?
It's annoying that they'd be useing Connie Refits at all- considering that the ships as old as Enterprise would have been slated for decommision some years prior.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I really wouldn't read too much into it. After all it wasn't really meant to stand up to too much scrutiny.
Posted by o2 (Member # 907) on :
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: More to the point, it says that the BluRay only has the theatrical cut, so that scene won't be in it at all.
In this case, we only have the scence where Kirk is sitting in this room. Does anybody know what exactly is listed on his timetable?
Posted by Jim NCC1701A (Member # 1021) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Hmmm...the silouette size thing is a bit odd- maybe the Endeavour (shown larger) represents the mission's command ship?
Or perhaps those ships are closer? Although those other ships are all in the same sector - maybe Endeavour is just a bit closer? Also don't know if that would stack-up remembering Sulu's comment that "we're now in Alpha Quadrant". Unless they'd been recalled after Operation Retrieve was cancelled...
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Agreed the video cut of TUC is MUCH better than the theatrical cut!
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
The smaller silhouettes look like they could be the Antares design someone round here did that I like so much.
Posted by Mirror-Amasov (Member # 742) on :
I don't think they are supposed to be Constitutions, the silhouettes of Endeavour and Potemkin of the same size, and we know that those two are Constitutions. Besides, already having Excelsior, Endeavour and Potemkin in that one secotor seems to be a bit of a stretch, but actually having 5 Constitutions plus the Excelsior? What is Starfleet going to do? Start an invasion of the Klingon Empire? I would prefer them to be something else, smaller patrol ships of some kind maybe.
Posted by Mirror-Amasov (Member # 742) on :
PS: What retard in Starfleet HQ is responsible for naming their operations, anyway? "Operation Retrieve", "Operation Return" (DS9) - why assign cover-designations to operations when even a Pakled could figure out what it is all about?
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
There was always my favorite - "Operation Get Destroyed By Borg Cube"
Posted by Josh (Member # 1884) on :
Probably the same guy who named "Operation Annihilate"
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
So does this guy have all the pages or just this one? And if the former, is there any more starship info on other pages?
Posted by Starship Freak (Member # 293) on :
He has all, there is one more page with starships, it will be in my hands next week. Of the pages I´ve recieved, this was the only one with info.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
There was also supposedly a ship list from TUC with this info:
USS Challenger NCC-2032
USS Constellation NX-1974
USS Emden NCC-1856
USS Helin NCC-1692
USS John Muir NCC-1732
USS Korolev NCC-2014
USS Scovil NCC-1598
USS Springfield NCC-1963
USS Whorfin NCC-1024
I wonder if that also will be in this artwork.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
In addition to the ships on the page we've already seen, which includes the Emden, the Challenger, Scovil, and Springfield were candidates for Operation Retrieve according to Bjo Trimble's Concordance. I rather had the impression that the others were from a mission assignment list from a bridge display or something to that effect.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Anything with a 2XXX number should be a later design than the Connie Refit, IMHO. Maybe the fiirst Constelation class ships?
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
I think we should know by now that you can't make any meaningful determination of what class a ship should be based on its registry.
Posted by Starship Freak (Member # 293) on :
Well, here is the shiplist seen on the chart. This will confirm things already known, and perhaps give us something new.
Thanks again to Captain Archer!
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: I think we should know by now that you can't make any meaningful determination of what class a ship should be based on its registry.
You sir, are a communist.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I note the Constellation is given an NX registry, making it the class ship for the Stargazer and others. Don't know if that's new or not...
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
That's cool, Starship Freak! Thanks for the legwork. A few observations:
1. This page was never seen in the film, so I guess those who are really persnickety won't count it as hard canon. But...
2. It seems there is still a starship mission assignment list that has yet to be indentified onscreen or in behind the scenes photos, but featuring the same ships. In Bjo Trimble's revised Concordance, for which Okuda provided her information, she specifies the activities of each vessel and cites that the display was seen on the Enterprise bridge in the film. More interestingly still...
3. In addition to the missions of all the ships, Trimble specifies that the Ahwahnee, Challenger, Eagle, Endeavour, Potemkin, Scovil, and Springfield as being proposed for Operation Retrieve. Perhaps she (or Okuda) confused the Scovil and Springfield with the Emden and Excelsior, or...
4. I know you said there was no starship info on the other pages, but take a look at the screencap five rows down in the third column here. There are three more starship silhouettes and each looks like it has an accompanying name and registry. What about these?
Thanks again to SF and this Captain Archer fellow!
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Nilo Rodis, creator of the KBOP and captain of the USS Kongo.
Posted by Starship Freak (Member # 293) on :
You´re referring to this which doesn´t tell us much. I just recieved this btw. Note that one of our gurus is a shining star in the universe as well..
Again, thanks to Captain Archer!
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Neato.
Posted by Mirror-Amasov (Member # 742) on :
All three are of the same size. So either Emden and Korolev are also Constitutions (which would contradict the first page, where Emden is just a Baby-Constitution) or Potemkin is not a Constitution (which I think is out of the question) *or* that third page's silhouettes are just generic "this-is-a-starship"-icons without any further meaning.
Or the fourth possibility which I don't even dare to post.
Okay, I'll do it anyway. Maybe we just disregard the third page with the big Emden, as that one was not on-screen and simply override that info with the info from the first page, which clearly was on-screen. And therefore, ... you know... kinda ... a little bit more canon. Right?
Please don't kill me.
(By the way, I once asked Okuda about that chart, but he said he didn't have it anymore and he didn't know who has it. Funny that things don't get lost around here...) Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Both pages with the silhouettes were onscreen. Only the shiplist page wasn't. (Doesn't mean your other options aren't still viable, though.)
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
IMHO, I believe they are all Constitutions, and not only because they have a Connie silhouette. If the Connie silhouettes were just random placeholders and not the actual class of the ships, then the Excelsior would have had a Connie silhouette too. But it doesn't; it has an Excelsior silhouette.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I'm reasonably sure Sternbach said they were just meant to be generic, the Excelsior being the exception. Not that it matters really.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Sternbach didn't make it, though. He just found some copies of the charts in his files. Okuda, on the other hand, had this to say:
quote:If I recall correctly, the charts visible on film/video listed only ship names and registry numbers. One can probably glean some class designations from the ship icons in the diagrams.
I don't have the original art handy (I think it's archived on Syquest disks, which I don't have the ability to read, even if I could find the disks themselves), but I recall giving the info to Bjo Trimble, and I'm pretty sure she used most of it in her revised Star Trek Concordance.
I might note that some of the ship registry numbers came from Greg Jein's interpretation of the starship chart in Commodore Stone's office in "Shore Leave" (TOS). Other registry numbers came from Franz Joseph's Starfleet Technical Manual or his Starship blueprints. In still other cases, the ships and/or numbers did not come from either source, but were consistent with some fleet status charts I did elsewhere on the Enterprise-A in Star Trek VI. (In other words, there's something that just about everyone will disagree with, but I also hoped that there would be at least something that almost everyone would agree with.)
I should also point out that I prepared several charts for the rescue briefing scene, and that not all of them ended up in the final cut of the film. I don't recall which ones were used, or which ones ended up unseen. I do seem to recall that there was at least one chart that had quite a number of registries - mostly, I recall, from FJ's work - that ended up unused.
-Mike
Still, it's somewhat open to interpretation. It is a little weird that some are smaller on one page and not on the other.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Maybe we just disregard the third page with the big Emden, as that one was not on-screen and simply override that info with the info from the first page, which clearly was on-screen. And therefore, ... you know... kinda ... a little bit more canon. Right?![[Wink]](wink.gif)