First, the bad news: I still have yet to receive pics of the Curry model from Dan Curry, and as a matter of fact, the last several emails I’ve sent him have gone unanswered. I know he’s a very busy man, and he did say that I could keep bugging him about this, so I will continue to send him email reminders every few months or so until a) he tells me to stop bugging him, b) he finally sends me pics, or c) it gets to a certain point where I’m just going to give up if he never responds back to me.
However, here’s the good news: I’m still in email contact with Adam Buckner. I got the modeling bug again, and I'm planning to buy some old kits on eBay in order to build replicas of some of the DS9 kitbashes, and to be as precise as possible to the original filming models (which is why I’m annoyed that Curry hasn’t contacted me, because I could really use any photos he takes as reference). One of the ships I want to build is the Bradford cargo ship, and Buckner sent me more pics of it. He originally took them after he cleaned out his loft/attic where he kept all his models in storage, but he had only sent me the one pic of the model on his couch. What I didn’t realize until I got the new pics was that he had built some other models too. Here’s a synopsis of my conversation with him about the models.
Bradford: With these new pics, we can see much more detail. Buckner used parts from helicopter and tank model kits for most of the add-on parts (i.e. the long tubes over the shuttlebays are missiles from the helicopter kit, and the "ring" around the Saturn V cargo containers are tank treads). The top part of the Reliant weapons pod is on top of the hull. There’s an Excelsior shuttlebay underneath the ship, although I'm not sure what function it’s supposed to serve as it’s quite out of scale (unless it’s now some kind of sensor like what it might serve on the Centaur model?) There are also parts that were meant to look like patches that were bolted on to cover hull damage, implying that it’s a pretty old ship that’s been haphazardly repaired. The whole idea Buckner was trying to convey with this ship was that instead of the sleek, streamlined Starfleet vessels we’re used to seeing, this was more like a tugboat that does all the grunt work.
Klingon battlecruiser: This model was built for the fleet scene at the end of "Call to Arms." It looks like a standard K’T’inga model without any modifications. The model was built in haste; it wasn’t painted or lit because colors and lighting were added in post-production.
U.S.S. Antares: Here we have another Miranda variant (and yet another ship with the name "Antares." ) Basically it’s a standard Reliant model kit with an AWACS pod made from the stand from an Excelsior kit, and the nacelle coverings from the same kit used as torpedo launch tubes. It turns out that this model was actually filmed (unlike the Bradford, which wasn’t finished in time and consequently sat on Peter Lauritson’s desk.) It was built as a far background ("FB") ship for use in scenes with Starbase 375 before they went fully CGI. Because scenes with FB ships docked at the starbase didn’t require them to be kitbashed or battle-damaged like the ships in the opening to "A Time to Stand," most of the FB ships in those scenes were just standard Reliant and Excelsior kits. This model was also supposed to be a standard Miranda, but he had some fun with it. It doesn’t have the elaborate lighting wires that the Bradford had because by that time it wasn’t necessary (as with the Klingon battlecruiser, the lighting would be added in post). Unfortunately the model was filmed upside-down (hence the hole for the mounting rod where the bridge module should be), so the additions to the model aren’t noticeable in the shot.
It’s also in a bit better condition than the Bradford or the Centaur because Buckner was constantly hauling the former models to conventions and such, while the other models had sat in a box since the end of DS9. One of the nacelles is missing, but overall it’s intact.
I should be getting more pics of the Bradford soon, and I'm also going to ask him about the Centaur, as that's another model I'd like to replicate. But in the meantime, have fun looking at these!
Thanks again for keeping us updated! I must admit I'm confused at this point about what was actually used onscreen and what wasn't...
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
AFAIK, here's the model kits that were actually seen on screen:
"Way of the Warrior" : U.S.S. Trial, two Excelsior model kits (or the same kit filmed twice).
"Call to Arms": regular unaltered Excelsior, Reliant, K'T'Inga and BoP model kits or Playmates toys. The NCC-9481 and 4186 Mirandas seen at Drexfiles might have been built for this scene.
"A Time to Stand": tug, Raging Queen kitbash, two separate shots of the U.S.S. Curry kitbash, and the Buckner/Centaur.
FB ships docked at Starbase 375: regular unaltered Excelsior and Reliant model kits (sans the Antares), and one shot of the Buckner/Centaur. The NCC-9481 and 4186 Mirandas seen at Drexfiles might have been built for this scene.
Various episodes of DS9: the Yeager.
AFAIK, the "Bradford," "Hutzel," "Jupp," and the "Elkins" were not shown on screen. The last three might have been filmed though, they just didn't make the final cut. Not certain about that, though.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Thanks. I think the Elkins can be seen in the background of "A Time To Stand," recognizable as distinct from the Curry because of the pointy Intrepid saucer and the lack of a hull that protrudes forward of the saucer. Screencaps here. (In the fourth pic down, third column, it's the one directly above the BoP over the Fredrickson's nacelle, for instance.)
The tug from "A Time To Stand" is named U.S.S. ERTL according to Drexler. (Sure it's a joke name, but so are all the others.)
I guess I was confused about the Antares because you said this, which makes it sound like it was indeed used in an episode:
quote:Originally posted by Dukhat: Unfortunately the model was filmed upside-down (hence the hole for the mounting rod where the bridge module should be), so the additions to the model aren’t noticeable in the shot.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:I think the Elkins can be seen in the background of "A Time To Stand," recognizable as distinct from the Curry because of the pointy Intrepid saucer and the lack of a hull that protrudes forward of the saucer.
I'm pretty sure that ship is just another shot of the Curry from much farther away, and not the Elkins. I have a better screencap somewhere that shows the ship a bit better. If I can find it I'll post it.
quote:I guess I was confused about the Antares because you said this, which makes it sound like it was indeed used in an episode:
My bad. I meant to say that the model was mounted for filming, but if it was filmed the modifications wouldn't have been seen because the ship would have been shot from below, which in the pics makes it look like a normal Miranda. Are there any screencaps of Starbase 375 with a bottom view of a ship that looks like a Miranda?
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
I'd be interested to see the better pic. I honestly don't see it as the Curry, however. As I said, there's no protruding hull, but rather darkness suggestive of the Elkins' recessed hulls, and the saucer looks pointed to me as well. But it would obviously not be the first time I'd've been wrong about something like this.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Having actually built up an Elkins model, I have yet to identify it onscreen.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
Jason, could you post some pics of it? I'd like to see it.
The Elkins is NOT one of the models I plan on reproducing (mainly because I'd have to buy four different model kits just to make that one ship). I am, however, planning on building the Bradford, the Curry, the Centaur and the Yeager, only with more Starfleet studio-model-type paint jobs instead of that mishmash of colors the originals had. I'm only an amateur modeler, but since the originals were not professionally done, they should look quite authentic I've already noticed something about the Centaur that's different from every scratchbuilt and semi-official kit out there.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
Here's some more pics of the Bradford, courtesy of Mr. Buckner:
Also, here's where I believe the Antares was used. It's the ship (or rather, one ship composited three times) above the Defiant. The other Excelsior and Miranda classes are likewise model kits that were composited multiple times. Buckner only built the model; he didn't film it. So this is a guess on my part.
I'm still trying to find my clearer screenshot of the "Time to Stand" fleet. Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dukhat: Jason, could you post some pics of it? I'd like to see it.
It was a long while back but here she is- I made her in 2500th scale from a Hallmark Voyager, a small F-15, odd-sized Constelation class nacelles from some resin kit and a few greebles for the deflectors. I used a cool grey instead of the blue to seperate it from the Yeager (which I also built along with the Centaur,Medusa and Curry).
If they went with more er-accurate nacelles, I think it would be a great (or at least more plausible) design- so I tried to tweak the nacelles while still keeping the connie-Refit shape- I gave them red-glowy Bussard collectors nstead of those vent things and the Constelation endcaps instead of those goofy refit surfboard fins. oh, I added a Voyager landing pad as well- it looks unfinished without that!
In-universe, if this is a one-off testbed for deflector-based weapons, I think it's just fine- something with older nacelles stuck on for weapon's trials while they still developed the class' unique warp nacelles. If that were the case, sticking it with the fleet as possible defense against the Dominion Battleship might make sense...I always wondered what would happen if they used the anti-Borg beam from BOBW against a non-Borg target.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
Jason, thanks for posting those pics, and good job! I would much rather have seen that ship orbiting DS9 instead of the Yeager (and totally agree that Judy Elkins should have used more modern nacelles. Why the heck she didn't just use the runabout nacelles with the runabout pylons is a mystery to me.)
I'd love to see your other Frankenstein fleet ships too. I'm really looking forward to building mine. I've already bid on a Reliant kit and a couple of Excelsiors, but man, Voyager kits seem to be ridiculously expensive these days...
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Dukhat I'm doubtful that Miranda with the sensor pod appeared in that shot, despite Buckner's assertions. The Mirandas in that pick look like the standard rollbar model duplicated multiple times. Jason, nice model, ever think about replicating the Voyager concept model built by Rick Sternbach?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I love the Voyager concept and gathered a bunch of parts for making it...unfortunately, I've been a lazy modeler this past year and have only made a bunch of Star Wars fighters and smallish ships to go with a Venator refit project...which now has extra parts four times the mass of the damn kit!
It's odd, building models is something that sorta drifts away from doing and into collecting if you're not careful.
With fantastic 2500th scale kits of both doinion and Breen cruisers coming soon, I'll be back at it!
Anyway, here's some of the other Frankenstein Fleet, with the occasional tweak for practical or parts-availability purposes- these are all 2500th scake, so they're almost certainly smaller than the size displayed on your screen-
You should really create your own site showing off your models.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Yes, thanks...I really should. But then, there are so many modelers that put any of my stuff to shame that i really feel a newbie after all this time.
It's like I have so many things I could build or draw or paint or whatever and I get home and it's tough to get going on something, knowing I can only get a tiny fracton of any project completed before needing to sleep or running errands or whatthehelever.
I need a dedicated art room, but since I had my best friend move in to help with the rent, all my art stuff in squished into my room with my bed computer desk stuff.
I need a Murphy Bed! Or a winning Lotto ticket.
Is there an idiot-proof website hosting service?
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
Your best bet would just to upload all your pictures to a hosting site. Fotki, Photobucket, Picasa, etc.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mars Needs Women: Dukhat I'm doubtful that Miranda with the sensor pod appeared in that shot, despite Buckner's assertions. The Mirandas in that pick look like the standard rollbar model duplicated multiple times.
Really? I'm referring to the three ships above the Defiant, not the three below. Those three lower ships definitely have the rollbar and weapons pods, but I can't make out the same for the upper ships.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
On closer look, yeah maybe your right. Also Jason, maybe you should try creating a blog for your work.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Fabrux, I have photo albums online, so you guys can see all my crazy at picturetrail.com search for albums by "cojoker"
I never thought of a build up blog- good idea!
As to the Miranda with the triangulat pod up top- that is a 537th Reliant Ertl model with a 1000th scale Excelsior model's stand stuck on it.
I do however love that Miranda tanker idea- I had the same notion a long while back, but went with a more FASA inspired nacelle placment and a custom hull instead-
I'd consider making the nacelles-up version though- it was the original Reliant configuration, you know.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
How the hell do you make something that small?!
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
^I imagine tweezers are involved.
But yeah, if it were me, I would definitely change the configuration so that the nacelles are mounted on top...or on the bottom with the containers on top. Having them squashed together like that just seems like a bad idea.
...While I'm at it, I'd also change the impulse engines. Instead of one pair in that central cut-in, I'd have two pairs--one on each of those aft hull extensions. Then I'd build up the bridge substructure and extend it aft until it gets to where the impulse drive is now. I would then turn that structure into the shuttlebay.
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
I concur with the "Engines Up" idea. Buried like they are would, in my mind, severely hamper their operation in building a warp field. My other suggestion would be to move the pods back to the halfway mark on the saucer. It seems to me to be smushed like that.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Warp fields seem to be capable of being generated by a even a single nacelle, and the Galaxy's nacelles supposedly have two sets of warp coild per nacelles so...
From a design POV, I always liked FASA's unique habit of placing nacelles together with the hull providing cover from weapon's fire- the Reliant firing that torpedo that juuuuust misses the Enterprise's nacelle pylon is the sort of thing the FASA designs would guard against.
quote:Originally posted by Lee: How the hell do you make something that small?!
Lee, I'm convinced that the Iternet's secondary function is to deflate egos- look at this master craftsman do "tiny" subjects that boggle the mind! Buh.....just....I mean....how?!??
Yes, those Star Wars figures are in the eye of a needle.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Sod the warp fields, having the nacelles that close to the containers is a bloody collision hazard. Remember what happened in 'Cause and Effect'? Those things are pretty volatile and one RCS thruster misfire during a docking manoeuvre with one of those huge pods and bang-crash-boom, bye-bye warp core containment.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
How moreso than the FJ design? That version would require loading the lone pod from te ventral and between the nacelles... Besides, the only time the pods woud detatch under non-emergency conditions would be at a starbase- that's pretty controlled circumstances and certainly no more dangerous to the ship than having them by the Impluse plant on a dorsal configuration...and far far safer than (for example) than designs with obvious dangers like the Miranda's firing torpedos right over the bridge!
Safety seems not to be the biggest factor in starship design.
I suppose it all depends on the cargo and mission profile- if it's a tanker for antimatter, this configuration wouks great for emergency ejection purposes- and if swapped for human transport pods, it would give a great cruise-ship view (I'd have a ton of windows, unlike the old FJ design).
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
And did I say I thought the FJ designs were better? Someone else making poor design choices isn't a terribly compelling defence for following suit.
Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
The Helios from page 1 is how I've always pictured a Starfleet Carrier would look.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Yeah that design is kinda endearing to me as well- though I almost decided to make it practical instead of (sorta kinda) like the studio model.
I thought of making the central length of the hull (the thin part of the Excelsior's secondary hull from the side taht fighters would have to travel along in a through-deck cruiser)two or even three times as thick (which would accommodate even Runabouts)and making the forward egress more of a large box structure the width of the secondary hull. That would give shuttles/fighters a much greater opening than the oddly small Excelsior cargo bay pointy part (that's the exact technical term).
Also, possibly removing the now foraward-facing excelsior shuttlebay in the undercut of the secondary hull and placing a deflector in there.
Speaking of which, I was thinking that a ship's deflector could make an excellent fighter (and even torpedo) shield- both would have to attack from another vector than the front. That being the case, ships could supplement their shields by adding small, but powerful directional deflector emplacements like how a Phalanx System works on Naval ships.
But then, if you're going there, why not use the ship's transporter emitters to beam incoming weapons fire away? We know from TNG that phaser fire can be removed safely in-transit. this idea would just expand on that notion. I'd love to see a ship being fired upon only for the beams to dissipate before hitting the hull- or better yet visually, for the beams to bend around the ship's shield bubble. .
Posted by Akula (Member # 319) on :
Anyone still have the Antares pics?
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
) Basically it’s a standard Reliant model kit with an AWACS pod made from the stand from an Excelsior kit, and the nacelle coverings from the same kit used as torpedo launch tubes. It turns out that this model was actually filmed (unlike the Bradford, which wasn’t finished in time and consequently sat on Peter Lauritson’s desk.) It was built as a far background ("FB") ship for use in scenes with Starbase 375 before they went fully CGI. Because scenes with FB ships docked at the starbase didn’t require them to be kitbashed or battle-damaged like the ships in the opening to "A Time to Stand," most of the FB ships in those scenes were just standard Reliant and Excelsior kits. This model was also supposed to be a standard Miranda, but he had some fun with it. It doesn’t have the elaborate lighting wires that the Bradford had because by that time it wasn’t necessary (as with the Klingon battlecruiser, the lighting would be added in post). Unfortunately the model was filmed upside-down (hence the hole for the mounting rod where the bridge module should be), so the additions to the model aren’t noticeable in the shot. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
I've already noticed something about the Centaur that's different from every scratchbuilt and semi-official kit out there.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2210/657989/1301771/18116124.jpg[/IMG]
