Yesterday I was able to look at the remastered battle scenes from DS9 documentation 'What We Left Behind' (Blu Ray, not stream). Boy, that was awesome!
We have a good look at some Galaxy, Akira, Saber, Miranda and Federation Fighter class ships, and in the distance I saw at least one Excelsior. Ok, none of these ships are new, but the entire battle was way better that I have hoped for!
Unfortunately I was not able to read any new ship names due to the fact that
a) the Galaxys area still not labeled. b) most ships are to far away. c) the choosen camera angle does not allow to read the name.
But not only the Federation ships are being shown in HD, all the Cardassian, Klingon and Dominion ships as well.
For the doc they have remasted the three following scenes:
1) The destruction of the USS Odyssey. 2) The run of the USS Defiant through enemy lines in 'Sacrifice of Angels'. 3) The looping of the Defiant in 'What You Leave Behind'.
All the material is approx. 1 Minute in lengh, but it shows us what a DS9 HD remaster would look like...
ViacomCBS has long said that HD remastering of DS9 wasn't worth the cost, even though we all know it is. This guy agreed, & bet his time on it.
Nine months later, he's created it.
It's not 4K or UHD quality by any means, but the resolution is definitely far superior. As the article goes alone, he starts getting super technical about his processes so people can replicate them.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
1. I love what he's doing.
2. CBS is full of crap.
Posted by 137th Gebirg (Member # 2692) on :
DS9, for some perverse reason, has always been regarded as the bastard red-headed stepchild of the Trek franchise. It’s equal parts predictable and frustrating that they continue to disrespect that show regularly.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
I also don’t understand the reluctance to remaster all of DS9 (and Voyager for that matter). I mean, I get that doing it takes time and money. But the claim that they wouldn’t make money on it is pure bullshit. Do the conversion and make it a CBSAA exclusive if you want to get the fans’ money.
But at least the DVDs are of decent quality. I would kill for a properly-mastered release of Babylon 5 to replace the visual abomination that’s currently in circulation—even if it was still just in SD! (Seriously, who the frak thought it was a good idea to crop-and-upscale all the 4:3 visual effects?)
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
DS9 in HD as a CBS AA exclusive would be enough to make even the die-hard anti-Disco folks sign up.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I mean, I can only speak for myself, but, I'm in the middle of rewatching DS9 right now. If HD DS9 came out on Blu-ray, even as soon as I finished my rewatch, I'd buy it right away (well, I'd wait for it to be on sale, but still). If it were exclusive to All Access, I might sign up whenever my next rewatch comes around, but who knows when that would be? So, at least in my case, they'd be better off selling Blu-rays.
Posted by o2 (Member # 907) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN: [...] I'd buy it right away (well, I'd wait for it to be on sale, but still).
This is why I think that we won't see DS9 in HD any time soon. Please don't get me wrong: It is totally ok to wait for a drop in the price. On the other side, CBS will not invest money in a project where the return-of-investment takes to long or is unsure in the first place.
We have the situation, where both project costs and number of customers are pretty clear (for the first you can compare with the costs for TNG remastering, for the second you can apply the rule of three with 1) Number of buyers for TNG DVD, 2) number of buyers for TNG bluray and the 3) nubmer of buyers for the DS9 DVD to estimate the number of buyers for the DS bluray).
If the number of DS9 bluray-buyers is smaller then the number of TNG bluray-buyers (assumption 1) and the costs for production are more of less the same (assumption 2), then you have to increase the product price in order to get to the Return of Investment.
What is a possible solution for CBS: 1) Reduce the costs of the product, which could result in a minor product quality. 2) Wait until technology creates the same level of quality for less money. 3) Find other ways for covering the production costs, like selling the streaming rights to Netflix, Apple or Amazon.
What is a possible solution for the fan base: 1) Signal CBS that we are willing to pay a fair price for a product we desire.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Oh, I know why they're not doing it, and, frankly, they're probably right. They won't make the amount of profit they'd like to off the project. I was just pointing out why, at least for me, the idea of making it exclusive to All Access wouldn't be a good solution.
Posted by o2 (Member # 907) on :
The picture quality of DS9 on DVD is not good, even compared to other DVD productions of that time. I would rather watch it on blu ray, but a streaming service like All Access would do for me as well, provided that the service is offered here in my region.
Anyway, I hope you enjoy your rewatch! Some of the episodes are still among my alltime favorites.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
It's actually part of a rewatch I've been doing of all the old series/movies in chronological order, so I'm currently on both DS9 season 3 and VOY season 1. The difference in quality between the two is... starker than I remembered. (I've rewatched DS9 a couple times, but this the first time I'm seeing the VOY eps since they originally ran).
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
I don't know what the studios' calculus is in these sorts of situations, how they weigh expenditure and risk versus revenue and rewards. But I think this relentless optimism that the audience is there, and that's all that matters, is unfounded.
The TOS-R box-sets just happened to come at the perfect time. The box set mania was in its heyday, the remastersinf and new FX gave anew lease of life to a rather tired and old-fashioned-looking property. By the time the TNG-R sets came out, the moment had passed. It may also be that TNG was still too new in people's minds, and I think there had already been non-remastered TNG box sets as it is (had there been for TOS? I don't know) and the remasters didn't really add all that much in tems of value - oh, sure, they fixed that time when a phaser beam came out of the torpedo launcher, big wow.
I suspect I feel the same way many do - I can watch all of Trek on Netflix, why bother buying box sets? And am I going to feel like I'm getting added value if suddenly the existing DS9 streams get replaced by DDS9-R streams, and would it entice more people to sign up? I doubt it.
And it's not like Trek is the only property that suffers. The Buffy box-sets are widely acknowledged to be a shitshow. B5 is a mixed bag, but if you want to get clued in on a really fucked-up situation, check out JMS's Twitter feed in which he routinely -and oh, so patiently - explains why there will never be a B5 remaster even though all the original film elements exist. As he puts it, in a nutshell, PTEN was always regarded as the bastard child of Warner Bros and executives there are determined the show never be given its due however much the fans clamour for it. JMS himself only has the film rights, and he can't get the funding to make a film that will do the franshise any credit, and won't do it cheaply either.
Posted by o2 (Member # 907) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN: It's actually part of a rewatch I've been doing of all the old series/movies in chronological order, so I'm currently on both DS9 season 3 and VOY season 1. The difference in quality between the two is... starker than I remembered. (I've rewatched DS9 a couple times, but this the first time I'm seeing the VOY eps since they originally ran).
How many episode are we talking about? 500 plus minus? This is what I would call a project...
Posted by o2 (Member # 907) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lee:
I can watch all of Trek on Netflix, why bother buying box sets?
The blu ray's picture quality is still superiour. I am willing to pay money for that, even if I already have the DVDs and access to Netflix. Please don't forget, the time DS9 was first released on DVD, no streaming service was available. For me there was no alternative to the DVDs.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
It's over 700 episodes (and the ten movies). I'm a little over 60% done. I started right after Discovery premiered, so it's been a while. But, I'm also not trying to speed through it, either. I even went a few months earlier this year without watching any of it, just because I was distracted by other things.
Posted by o2 (Member # 907) on :
I've just noticed that CBS/Paramount is using HD-footage from the DS9-documentary 'What we left behind' in one of their latest promo videos for their upcoming P+ service:
You can see the sequence around time index 1:00. Well, this is the first time that CBS/Paramount is using HD content from DS9, although it come from an external source!
I was not aware that CBS/Paramount even has to rights to use this material, but I appreaciate it!
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I would have been surprised if whatever deal they made with the WWLB filmmakers for the use of the footage didn't entitle them to use the HD version themselves if they wanted to.
Posted by o2 (Member # 907) on :
To my knowledge, the HD battlescene of the USS Defiant braking through the enemy lines was done by a third party, only for (and paid by) the documentary. It was not based on the film negatives and was done without the help of CBS/Paramount. I'm not sure if any (legal) involvement of Paramount was necessary (e.g. compare to the FX of a fan-based series like Star Trek Continues; CBS/Paramount has also no rights on the produced materials).
No matter, on what legal ground they used this stuff: Why is it in the trailer in the first place? It is the only sequence from DS9. There is no footage from Voyager or Enterprise...
Well, I'm just dreaming, but maybe there is something going on with DS9 comming in HD? Their P+ service would benefit from a HD release of DS9, especially now when even Babylon 5 got its (well-deserved) HD treatment...
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
The seeming fan-made DS9 shots were modified for the documentary, and not always improved, sadly.
For instance, here's one of the old ones. The DS9 doc version looks similar but they change the death of the flanking BoP and it looks weird in the doc.
Not sure, if this sequence was 'fan-made', because the sequence in the DS9 documentary was based on the original scene files from that episode, only rendered in 16:9 instead of 4:3 and with a higher resolution and more texture.
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