Kudos to all the creative work here, but no-one ever seems to post 3D work, I know there are other 3D'ers amongst us, so where's all your 3D stuff? I only rarely see any at Flare, but I want to see some more 3D art here. So here's a Jupiter Station scene:
Is there anyone that cares to see this stuff?
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
It looks really good. I like it. The Nebula really looks good from this angle. I really like the reflection of the light from the sun on the Nebula's saucer and Jupiter Station's upper saucer and antenna relay. The Norway looks really awesome. I like that you've softened the lines on her. The Excelsior looks really good, but I'm having a problem seeing it in perspective. Sometimes when I look at her, I think it's sitting behind Jupiter Station instead in front of it. But, it looks really good. What else do you got?
I'd post my own 3-D stuff, but I don't for two reasons. First, I don't know how to do 3-D stuff, and, second, I don't know how to do 3-D stuff. Anyway, yeah, there are other people here who do this kind of art and, yeah, I'd like to see more of it, too.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
Well, I've grown accustomed to using 3D studio release 2 (i know its not 1994 anymore, but its what i got..) while listening to music. when i got my new computer i put all my music as mp3s and stored my CDs.. to run 3D studio i have to restart in DOS mode and cant listen to music.. i find modeling in silence to be agonizing. so i havent modeled in about 7 months.
Its an awful reason, i know...
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
That's super-great, RA. Really impressive. I see you're playing with DOF. Nice.
All my 3D stuff is original sci-fi (i.e. non-Trek/SW/B5 etc.). Anyway, the canon nazis here tend to spurn anything that they haven't seen on TV.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
I somehow expected pictures of Y and J class freighters being loaded at the ENT Jupiter Station
Nice work!
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
Thanks all, I'm glad this worked out.
Sieg: The Excelsior is kind of above and behind the station, and I see how the perspective is confusing. What else have I got..? Gee, tons and tons. I've just finished my Nebula Class project, where I built three different models of the major Nebbie variants. This one, the Phoenix-type, and the Proto-Nebula. But Trek-wise I've got models of nearly all the canon ones, save some of the most recent, such as Sabre, Sov, Intrepid etc. erm..
Daedalus, Constellation, Excelsior, Oberth, Soyuz, Miranda, Niagara, Challenger (the Galaxy variant), Curry, Springfield, Norway, Nebula variants, New Orleans, Freedom, Ambassador, Cheyenne, Phase II, and a stack of non-canon/semi canon/non-Trek etc.
I got into 3D because more than anything else I wanted to build, and design starships, I have in one shape or another since a kid. And anyone can do it 3D-wise, with practise.
Heh Balaam, let's see some of your pics...
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Looks really cool. My only nit is that if the Excelsior is supposed to be behind the station, it might be a tad on the large side. However, the lighting and shadows look great.
(edit) You know I say that, but I guess I really have no idea how big Jupiter Station is. I guess I just imagined it would be bigger than a starship, but I could be wrong.
You know...I have almost no reference photos of the Curry....might you be able to post a few of your renders for me. They might come in handy to use as a guide until I can actually find the ERTL models I need to build one
[ December 06, 2001: Message edited by: Aban Rune ]
Posted by Mojo Jojo (Member # 256) on :
Looks great, save for the orientation of the Excelsior. Right now it is on plane somewhat parallel to JS... can't quite put my finger on it, but there's something 'unnatural' about the composition of those two elements (this coming from a guy who can barely model a cube).
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
Well, the nature of space implies that objects are possibly quite rarely on the same plane. But in this case the pitch values of the Excelsior are the same as the station. It could just be that the camera's perspective is throwing it off a bit.
The station is modelled in accordance with a number of good reliable pictures, and so are the other models, and taking the window sizes into account, the Excelsior saucer is slightly larger than the saucer sections on the station. But with relative scaling one must occasionally make a rough guess.
Mojo, yeh, them cubes can be a bugger to model... lol
Aban, the Curry you say? Hmm, I'll do some digging, and possibly some new renders if you want pics. I've done nothing with that nasty ship for some time...
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
Yuck!! I opened up this Curry mesh and fell in hate with it all over again. Aban, you really want this?? Not only is it a horrible model (I gnarled up various chunks of my Excelsior and Miranda), it's a pig ugly ship design anyway. And this comes from a guy who's from the school of thought that considers form and function over aesthetics in many cases.
It's so bad it's not worth doing any decent renders of, primarily because it's not a quality model, and probabaly isn't very accurate. I've only used it a couple of times in various fleet formation renders, way off in the background somewhere.
If you, or anyone else wants to use these anywhere, I only ask that credit is given where credit is due, and that a link back to my site (www.trekmania.net) is inserted. Cheers.
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
Aw, c'mon. The nacelle is the only thing that bugs. A little re-modeling there, and maybe some new maps and they'd be fine. These are nothing to be ashamed of.
Speaking of things to be ashamed of, you did ask for it:
Main hangar of an Alliance Heavy Cruiser Exterior of a Heavy Cruiser
And if you are feeling particularly low (and have QuickTime):
These are some early graphics for my show Our Place In The Shadows. Not to make excuses for my inadequacies, but these graphics and animations were generated with the free and underwhelming Strata 3D 3.0. I am working on new (and, one would hope, improved) versions using Animation Master, but I'm getting frustrated at the multifarious interface problems the program has with mechanical modeling (and other things). These newer images are not ready for primetime.
[ December 07, 2001: Message edited by: Balaam Xumucane ]
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Thanks Red Admiral. See...I actually kind of liked that ship...at least when I saw it in the opening of whatever ep it was. Of course, I hadn't seen a new ship in so long, my ecitment may have clouded my judgement a litte
I liked it on screen...I don't like it in the DS9 Tech Manual. I'd really like to get some good quality shots of the actual studio model they used to see some of the detailing they did.
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
Baluum, the Curry was only 'bad' in my book because I kitbashed it in the same way the production designers did on the show, but some of the ship components aren't right on my model, as you said, that's because I didn't pay much attention to detail, for such a beastly ship this is.
Aban, the Curry was seen only in 'A Time to Stand' (DS9). I like all ships really, but this one bugs me like no others have. It's just a lazy kitbash, for me it is even more annoying than Akiraprise. But heh, that's just me.
Your work is impressive Baluum from what i can see from the small images you have, Anything bigger? they look interesting man.
Wicked anims too, it's not something I've ever got heavily involved in. One day I hope to do some neat anims with my ships. The Avatar one BTW has some pretty creepy music. Cool.
This is what I've worked on most recently, the Nebula Variants project, 3 of them:
I've also slightly altered the Jupiter Station scene a bit. The lighting had some attention, the atmosphere of Jupiter also, and a few other details. I think it's better.
[ December 07, 2001: Message edited by: The Red Admiral ]
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
The Curry kitbash never bothered me as much as the Yeager kitbash... That thing is just plain no good.
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
I don't know that I've seen the Yeager kitbash.
RA: Wow. Nice. I definitely prefer the new version. That isn't to say that the older version was bad. The lighting is more dramatic and makes it seems as though it's coming from the lens flare which was a little strange with the older version. Jupiter looks fantastic. Looks like a little horiz motion blur or maybe some crazy turbulence Lightwave thing. Anyway, yes. Great job. Dude, I seriously think you could go pro if you wanted to.
The tiny top nacelles on the Nebula are so... cute!
I wanted to ask you about your texture maps. Are you working from Photoshop and then maping onto the objects, or is there some way that Lightwave lets you do those amazing radial specularity maps. They really add a lot. Very impressive work, sir. I salute you (and not just because you outrank me).
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
The Yeager is the Intrepid saucer hooked to an outsize Maquis raider.
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
I agree Aban, the Yeager is the nastiest of the lot.
Cheers Balaam, you flatter me. The image maps for the ships are created in Photoshop. For the saucer, it is simply one rectangular shaped image, with an aztec pattern which is then wrapped round the saucer on the Y axis, and repeated about 24 times (for the Nebulas). Those, and similar image maps for the rest of the hull are the only textures I used. All other details, insignia, registry text, lifeboats, windows etc, are all modelled elements. They always look better that way.
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
Wow, I like that Nebula class lineup there, Red Admiral. I agree with Balaam: those two topside nacelles are cute. That's some really great work.
And the pictures of the Curry model are fantastic! I've never much liked the ship, but your renditions of it much it beautiful, actually. It really looks like a cool little ship.
Balaam, you do some wonderful work as well. Those are all really good.
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
Cheers Seigfried, I'm still working on that proto-Nebula. It's 99% done, a few textures left on her to do. It's a model of this ship:
Thanks for the comments on the Curry as well. But my aversion to this model is only because it was lazily constructed. I used parts of my Miranda and Excelsior mesh. On the Curry's saucer it says USS Excelsior, NX - 2000 ! So it wasn't a serious attempt to build a Curry, just a background ship I've used in some fleet formation renders, and so forth.
Posted by akb1979 (Member # 557) on :
Balaam Xumucane I can't access those links properly - it keeps saying "Failed codec download" or something Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
akb: You may need a more recent version of Quicktime. I believe these are both compressed using the free Sorenson codec you get with QuickTime Pro, so no fancy DiVX or anything.
Red, Siegfried: Aw, shucks. Thanks. I'm not that happy with this stuff, yet.
So, long ago I took a basic 3D class and we learned on an SGI running Alias (7?). It was great. Anyway it seems like ever since then, I've been trying to get back to something that good. It doesn't help that I'm mostly using a Mac. I've been trying to figure out a good program to do all the CG for my show with, trying out some different things:
The older free version of Strata (3.0) is kind of crappy, but it's got a wicked fast and very capable renderer (DOF, Motion Blur, etc). Everything you see there has been done with that free program. Take that however you want. (Don't get me wrong it's very powerful, but it's obvious they've cut out some good stuff and on complex models the interface gets very sluggish (the ship model with the filled hangar and all the Avatar fighters takes like 4 minutes just to open all the shaders)) Despite all this it's proven to be the easiest to use, fastest to render package I've tried. I'm debating getting the intermediate or pro package of the newer version.
Animation Master seems to do a whole lot (particles, dynamics, fur, smartskin, etc.), but the modeling interface is exceptionally quirky and the program crashes often. It also seems to get bogged down when you decide to use any of these more advanced features. The actual animation controls are very cool, but I really need to use my own models. There is an active user community, but aside from that, the manual is outtadate and incomplete. It's an extremely steep learning curve, and I haven't been getting very consistent results. It's a tad racy, but it's the best thing I've done in AM:this
I have tried an older version of Lightwave and it was obviously WAY over my head. I got some great results following a tutorial online, but didn't really learn much. It seemed really deep but I really needed to go through a manual or two. The version I had was crash-prone, and sluggish on my G4 (this should never happen, btw). Anyway, seeing the incredible stuff you've done with it, Red, I'm thinking about giving LW another try.
When I worked at a videogame company we were using some custom-made pluggins with 3D Studio (clever name, guys) to build our level info. This wasn't 3DS Max which I'm told is much better. Anyway, the program was impossibly bad. Insanely buggy and really really slow. Apparently the Brazil modeling/rendering system uses 3DS architecture. Now that's some impressive stuff.
MAYA sure looks impressive and they've certainly been hyping it enough, but it's WAY out of my price range and I hear the OS X version is buggy as all get out. (8 grand and buggy? I sense a vote of no confidence coming.)
Anyone here using/used Maxxon Cinema 4D? It looks good, but the trial version is so frelling castrated I can't tell.
[ December 11, 2001: Message edited by: Balaam Xumucane ]
[ December 11, 2001: Message edited by: Balaam Xumucane ]
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
You've certainly done really well with what you have, and that cloning pic looks awesome dude. Character/human modelling is very tricky, and it's a realm I've never entered. But I'd certainly give Lightwave a try if you can, but there are plus and minus points with both Lightwave and 3D Studio Max. I've played with 3DS, but I don't like it much, and besides, Lightwave has a superior rendering capability.
Maya etc are pro packages, and I think beyond me. LW does all that I want it to do, and for doing things from Trek ships, to photo-realistic interiors, it has all you need. So that's what I'd recommend.
There are many places on the web where you can follow LW tutorials for key basics, and if you are serious about giving it a try, let me know Balaam, I'll contact you privately and I'll point you in the right direction.
Posted by akb1979 (Member # 557) on :
Quicktime? Eh? It loaded up in Windows Media Player . . . huh?
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
akb: Micro$oft is great... No seriously. They are great... For me to poop on. WiMP will valiantly establish itself as your default media program for a variety of different media which it does not recognize, does not have the codecs for or doesn't like. M$ solution? Why are you trying to look at stuff that isn't MPEG? Yeah. Thanks, guys.
Red: I would love to get some Lightwave links/pointers. Your stuff is in a very similar vein to what I'd be trying to do for the show. A bit more grime and I'd be all over it. It looks as though the glows on the nacelles (and deflectors and impulse ports) are throwing off a faint halo effect or bloom or atmospheric or something. Is that something in the rendering or perhaps modeled, or maybe post in Photoshop? It's a very nice effect however you've done it.
Incidentally the expanding fire ring in this animation is the only presentable thing I've done in Lightwave.
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
Hey Red, I've been looking into possibly getting Lightwave. Anyway in my browsing I've run into some pretty impressive stuff. I ran across this Nebula. It kind of reminded me of the work of someone here:
I know you may not consider yourself a professional, but this is not that far beyond your own work. Now this is by Foundation Imaging. That's right, the very guys who do all the stuff for Trek at Paramount. They'd have a whole team of artists and modellers to make something like this. What you've done you've done on your own. Now more than ever, I truly believe that you could get work there on the strength of what you've got in your portfolio.
quote: I got into 3D because more than anything else I wanted to build, and design starships, I have in one shape or another since a kid.
I hope to god that you have a really cool job that you love and that's why you're not going for it because otherwise, dude, you could have your dream job...
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
Dude, many thanks. I did have a really cool job before being laid off in October. The Job search has been going disappointingly, but right now I'm planning on lying low, having a chilled out Christmas, and then start seriously looking again in January.
I've seen this Nebula image before, and think it's some way beyond my skill, particularly in the field of texturing, which has never been my strongest point. I usually do simple metallic textures.
These guys have different and more advanced progs than Lightwave, and Lightwave is the only prog I know, and it's taken a couple of years to perfect that. I'm truly flattered I am, and hey, I would love to do it professionally, but even in the amateur 3D community I'm only at intermediate level. I often see stuff by guys like me that blow me away. In all honesty I'm no where near good enough, or knowledgable enough to do this professionally. But, like with any field in life I'm still learning. And if any vacancies came up at Foundation Imaging I'd probably send a CV, and a url for my portfolio. It wouldn't do any harm, nor I think would it do any good.
But thanks again greatly for the vote of confidence...!!
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Red Admiral: I did have a really cool job before being laid off in October.
Ooh, man I'm sorry to bring up a sore subject. (Open mouth, insert foot).
quote:Originally posted by The Red Admiral: I've seen this Nebula image before, and think it's some way beyond my skill, particularly in the field of texturing, which has never been my strongest point. I usually do simple metallic textures.
I am-not/have-not-been blowing smoke up your arse. You are very close to being this good. If you were to up the resolution and detail of your texture maps, you'd nearly be there. Take the model you've got now; Add 1,2,3,4,5 that I can see maybe 10 small point lights with some clear hemispheres; a couple more modelled greeblies and you are there. I even like your escape pods better. What you say is true, your texture maps could use a little work, but they are very good right now. So you practice that.
quote:Originally posted by The Red Admiral: These guys have different and more advanced progs than Lightwave, and Lightwave is the only prog I know, and it's taken a couple of years to perfect that.
A lot of the more impressive (to me) stuff on the NewTek page was FI stuff. One would assume that means it's Lightwave. It might have a higher version number than yours, but I'll bet you can make whatever version you are running jump through all sorts of hoops. You could get to that level. They will recognize your talent.
quote:Originally posted by The Red Admiral: I'm truly flattered I am, and hey, I would love to do it professionally, but even in the amateur 3D community I'm only at intermediate level. I often see stuff by guys like me that blow me away. In all honesty I'm no where near good enough, or knowledgable enough to do this professionally.
That's where I'd tend to disagree. I would tend to put you well above intermediate. (I know quite a bit about it myself) That specularity thing alone would bump you up a notch. It's true there are a lot of talented amateurs out there who have come up with some incredible stuff. Not all of them have a website filled with so many fantastic renders of such a wide variety of ships. To quote Swingers: "Dude, you are so money and you don't even know it."
quote:Originally posted by The Red Admiral: ...if any vacancies came up at Foundation Imaging I'd probably send a CV, and a url for my portfolio. It wouldn't do any harm, nor I think would it do any good.
Look, I hate to get all Good Will Hunting on you, but so many of us do wish we were as talented as you. I suppose I should be thankful for what I have got. It's just enough talent/skill to recognize the abilities in others. You have it though. You really could go all the way, and I'd hate to see you not realizing your potential. Especially if it's something you've always dreamed of doing. I don't why I'm pressing you to go for it. I should be recruiting you hard to come work on my show. Your talents are above that, though. You have what it takes. Maybe it's a couple of contract jobs, maybe you land a full-time position, but if I had half your abilities I'd be all over this.
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
No worries, Balaam, getting laid off isn't now a sore subject, I've got something possibly lined up for March, which will mean relocating.
Yes, texturing has been a problem. I've always been I'd say 50% lazy, and 50% ignorant when it comes to Photoshop work with 3D textures. For me this chore is utterly laborious, and I usually end up making rather simple texturing schemes, possibly because I don't know how to make cooler ones. I try to stay as faithful to Trek canon as possible. When you see some of the real studio models not many of the ships are complexly detailed, other than a basic aztec pattern. But I do want to improve this area nevertheless.
I think I still have a long way to go to be as good as the pros, and I kid you not, I see a lot of other amateur stuff out there far better than what I can do.
I really do appreciate all the praise I've had, but I'm realistic, I'm not being stupidly modest by saying I'm rubbish, but I know that there's a heck of big gap between where I am, and where the big boys are.
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
Wow. Wowy. Wow Wow. That Justin Winters stuff is really quite impressive. It looks as though he lifted some greeblies from the Millenium Falcon, but it sure is great looking. I'd often thought that space stuff rendered with Brazil would be cool. Every time I go back to look at his hardware page (Which I am very pleased he included), Steve Jobs gives me a dirty look.
I did wind up ordering the Pro version of Strata. Now that I'm a student again I was able to get it for US$200. It's pretty schweet. I haven't messed around with it too much but the fact that it takes advantage of the faster AltiVec processor in my G4 is very apparent, and I luv the Radiosity renderer.
Anyway, I'm sorry to ride you on something for which you obviously don't feel you're ready. I suppose I'm envious of your talents. Anyway, keep up the great work. I very much look forward to seeing more of your new stuff around here. (and to seeing your name in the credits of Enterprise next season... What? Oh. Sorry. No pressure.)
Posted by Grokca (Member # 722) on :
Red Admiral, I thought it was one of your images until I read the name of the post, BX is right about your stuff.
