First attempt at doing a Utopia Planitia scene, and I've always wanted to do one. But I think there's something not quite right with this, or something missing, and I can't figure it out. Perhaps it's my imagination...
Posted by Colorless Cartman (Member # 256) on :
Well... for starters, the lighting is rather dull. The brightness is too high yet the illumination too dim, if you catch my drift. Second, you've oriented most objects along the same axis, which doesn't give a "natural" impression of the busy and crowded facility that UP should be. Third, a lot of ships share the same plane. Space is three-dimensional, so you'd expect there to be activity on various levels. And finally, the perspective of the Galaxy and Sovereign in the top left corner doesn't quite fit the rest of the scene. It's as if they've been superimposed somehow.
Nonetheless, very impressive! Please regard the above as constructive criticism... guess it's always easier to find faults within other people's work, considering I still have difficulty rendering a simple cube Posted by Fuchsia Ritten (Member # 417) on :
Okay, I like it... I wish I had time to try to do work like that...
The lighting doesn't seem right... in the 'dry dock' bays in the foreground... The ships don't look like they are lighted properly... shadows where none should be...
Is that a Sov.? It looks like the nacelles are up and down...
Also, it doesn't look, mmm, crisp(?), or a little to blurry for my tastes...
Other than that your talent makes me sick to my stomache, I hate you, and wish you to burn in hell... Posted by Prismatic EdipisReks (Member # 510) on :
that middle ship ain't a sovie. it is in fact the ship that was first unveiled here. Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
What this image is really lacking is a sense of scale and perspective. Some of the ships look impossibly close to one-another, just look at the Springfield and the docked Galaxy, the Spingfield should be dwarfed that close to such a large ship.
It might me a good idea to put something right in the foreground, like a closeup of a nacelle or the top of a sauser. Something to show just how big these ships are.
Something else that I notice is that all the ships are in one piece, try adding elements that show that the is some activity going on. For example you could have a ship with it's nacelles being removed, or a bridge module being installed...maybe you could have a Nebula-Class undergoing a mission pod swapout.
Most importantly, you have to show an Apollo-Class in there somewhere Posted by BWC (Member # 818) on :
Basically what everybody said already, including emphasis on the Apollo CLass including!!
Reverend, check yer PMs!
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
Color and texture for the Earth Station Mackinly(sp?)-type dock is way off. The support struts and frames for the dry docks look too thick, especially the ones further away, and the entire structure could be wider. Various docks in too close proximity to each other, namely the two in the foreground. Mini-mushroom support stations needs more hull features and texture, being so close to the camera, and maybe smaller windows (personal taste). Not enough shuttles, work bees, and EVAs running around. Back ground space could be darker, instead of kinda nebulous looking.
No space cows, and too many weird looking ships. Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Mars could be a little brighter? More detail?
Which one is the springfield?
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
Right, thanks for all the input. I knew there were many things not right about this image and I've already got to work trying to refine it.
First off: This is a tricky scene to light. I have a princpal light source plus light fillers, as some of the sructures are behind Mars, and hence in deep shadow and wouldn't show up at all. Regardless of how it really would look like in space, we want to see stuff. That's always been my policy (without of course totally sacrificing realism)
-Yes everything's on the same plane. We have to have it this way otherwise it looks stupid. We can't have a series of ships flying one way, and then the space station upside down. Docking hatches, drydocks etc are all one way up, so the ships are orientated one way up, a la the real glipmses of UP that we've seen.
-All ships are scaled exactly, to the nearest canon meter. The Sovereign style Utopia Class is several hundrfed metres below and beyond the Galaxy. Unfortunately such perspective is impossible to convey when looking virtually side on.
Also, the space station is not one of the big ones, like spacedock. It's much smaller and has no internal drydock facility.
-Reverend: There's no Sprinfield in the scene. Which ship did you mean...? Do you mean the Challenger, also in drydock?
I like the idea of putting something close to the camera - I'll work on that. And I don't really want to clutter the scene by having dozens of ships, service craft and workbees flying around. (I'd have to build a workbee mesh if I was going to use one). But there is a fine line between busy/realistic, and cluttered/ridiculous.
Apollo class is a possibility. It would be an older ship for this scene, but I'll look into it.
-As far as I know the drydocks are reasonably consistent. And I deliberately placed two close together - artistic license, one side by side.
quote:Mini-mushroom support stations needs more hull features and texture, being so close to the camera, and maybe smaller windows (personal taste).
Not sure what you mean here....
And for Mars, yes, I really could use a more detailed texture map. I'm looking into it.
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
This is the latest version, and it's coming along better now. Constructed and added some orbital habitats this afternoon, but no more time to do anything else right now, I have to go out...
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote: -Reverend: There's no Sprinfield in the scene. Which ship did you mean...? Do you mean the Challenger, also in drydock?
Oh right, I see it now. I was refering to the Challenger, the drydock threw me off
quote: I like the idea of putting something close to the camera - I'll work on that. And I don't really want to clutter the scene by having dozens of ships, service craft and workbees flying around. (I'd have to build a workbee mesh if I was going to use one). But there is a fine line between busy/realistic, and cluttered/ridiculous.
Absolutly, you need to find the balance between art an chaos
quote: Apollo class is a possibility. It would be an older ship for this scene, but I'll look into it.
You have an Excelsior in there don't you? they're way older.
quote: This is the latest version, and it's coming along better now. Constructed and added some orbital habitats this afternoon, but no more time to do anything else right now, I have to go out...
Better but....where's my baby!?
Seriously though that is an improvement, all you need now is to expose the decking on some ships and undock that Nebula's sensor pod.
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
Alright alright, I forgot, sorry. The Apollo will go in there on the next render. All I have to do is find a place for it...
I have a plan, a cunning plan, for the Nebula pod. But it will have to wait until tomorrow...
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
Forget the last two versions, this is the final one, Apollo and all (it is in there Reverend... perhaps I should rename this thread 'Spot the Apollo...)
Posted by Prismatic EdipisReks (Member # 510) on :
that is BAAAAAD AAAAAAASSSSS. do you a high rez version you could link to?
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
Alright, I can do a 1024x768, or even higher if you wish, but it will have to wait until tomorrow now...
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Wonderful artwork, Mark!
This may not be a nit, but just an artifact of the color rendering. But that big spacedock-like station on the left side looks like the upper dome has a "crease" along the shadow line. Maybe this is just because of a big contrast between the lit part of the station and the shadowed area, but the line looks sharp enough to me to make it look like the hull itself is actually creased or ridged in some way.
Still, it looks really nice!
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
Thanks man...
It's not actually a shadow, it is indeed a darker raised segment protruding from the hull. It doesn't show up so well in this image, but a bit better here Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Aha! I see what you did now. That's a nice little detail...
Posted by iam2xtreme (Member # 836) on :
That is mightly fine!!!!!!! Although could you do a list of all ships included, as some are too hard to tell.
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
Ok:
USS New Orleans - New Orleans Class, left foreground.
USS Columbia - Galaxy Class, left middle distance.
USS Stanley - Independence Class cruiser, far left drydock.
USS Anchorage - Challenger Class, centre drydock, foreground.
Nebula Class under construction, wide drydock, far right foreground.
USS Providence - Galaxy Class, wide drydock, central, middle distance.
USS Temeraire - Cheyenne Class, drydock, central, middle distance.
USS Providence - Galaxy Class, undergoing refit, spaceframe assembly unit, middle distance
-Other distant drydocks contain 1 New Orelans class ship, and an Excelsior.
Other free floating ships include:
USS Fredrickson - Excelsior Class, lower right.
USS Pascal - Hokule'a Class, lower right.
USS Rochester - Excelsior Class, distant upper left.
USS Gage - Apollo Class, distance middle left.
USS Sapphire - Utopia Class, upper right, middle distance.
USS Bristol - Nebula Class, distant upper right.
USS Beesley - Tudor Class Transport ship, central, far in the distance.
Other vehicles include some Workbees (hard to spot) and other auxillary service craft around the drydocks.
Phew, think that's about it.
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
Your talent still makes me want to vomit....
It is beautiful...
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote: USS Gage - Apollo Class, distance middle left.
AH HA! I knew I'd find her eventually...all by myself....really
quote: I have a plan, a cunning plan, for the Nebula pod. But it will have to wait until tomorrow...
What is this cunning plan?
Are you able to render scenes as different sized images? If so then why not try a wide rectangle instead of a square, a 16:9 ratio should give it a nice cinematic quality while enabling you to spread things out a bit to reduce the clutter.
Posted by Red BWC (Member # 818) on :
The quality of that makes me fell like Mr. DeMartino after he flipped the lid after the barbeque...
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
lol, well thanks...
My cunning plan for the Nebula, Reverend, changed somewhat. Instead of a pod swap I created a Nebula saucer under construction... see it?
Sorry the Apollo is way off in the distance. I just couldn't fit another ship anywhere in the foreground.
Changing the ratio would require a big overhaul of the scene setup. It's a nice idea, one I might tackle if I get the time at the weekend. But you know what I'm like. When I finish something I like to move on to something new, straight away.
Right now I have an interesting Rigel Class proposal in development, based on your drawings. Haven't done any work on her yet, but it's in the sketch stage. I really want to finsih off that Hokule'a too.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote: My cunning plan for the Nebula, Reverend, changed somewhat. Instead of a pod swap I created a Nebula saucer under construction... see it?
Just barely, maybe you should have put a few spotlights on it or moved it closer to the camera.
quote: Sorry the Apollo is way off in the distance. I just couldn't fit another ship anywhere in the foreground.
Don't worry about it, the model wouldn't hold up well to close inspection in it's current state anyway.
quote: Changing the ratio would require a big overhaul of the scene setup. It's a nice idea, one I might tackle if I get the time at the weekend. But you know what I'm like. When I finish something I like to move on to something new, straight away.
Indeed, your attention span is minimal. *waves shiney thing in your face and throws it out the window*
quote: Right now I have an interesting Rigel Class proposal in development, based on your drawings. Haven't done any work on her yet, but it's in the sketch stage.
Which one? that crazy manta-ray looking thing or that 4 nacelled jobbie I did for whats-his-face?
quote: I really want to finsih off that Hokule'a too.
Same here, although I put so much detail on that top view my computer has a small fit evey time I try and edit the file. Did we ever decide wether or not to use the E-B'ish secondary hull projections?
[ July 31, 2002, 16:03: Message edited by: Reverend ]
Posted by Red BWC (Member # 818) on :
I sill feel like Mr. Demartino...
Reverend, what program do you use and how long did it take you to get to where you are. More importantly, check yer PMs!
Posted by Magnus Pym Eye (Member # 239) on :
I want to murder you.
Posted by Red BWC (Member # 818) on :
Who dont?
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
Reverend said:
quote:Don't worry about it, the model (the Apollo) wouldn't hold up well to close inspection in it's current state anyway.
Erm, I think it's well worthy of seeing close up. There's a few bits and pieces to do, but it's more or less there...
quote:Indeed, your attention span is minimal. *waves shiney thing in your face and throws it out the window*
I will have you know that my attention span....(trails off)
-basically I like to put a design or a model to bed swiftly. I hate having half finished things lying around clogging up my hard drive.
quote:Which one (Rigel Class design), that crazy manta-ray looking thing or that 4 nacelled jobbie I did for whats-his-face?
No no not that one. The elliptical saucer version (along the X axis). And there are two nacelles, and in some ways it resembles an Akira. I'm sure it was you that came up with those designs.
BTW The Hokule'a has had some attention since the last post. Look out for some updated renders soon, possibly tonight...
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote: Erm, I think it's well worthy of seeing close up. There's a few bits and pieces to do, but it's more or less there...
It's a matter of perspective, from my point of view the 2D plans are still in their initial stage so there may be alot of details that I'll add later. Until that is all done the 3D model will never be "finished".
quote: No no not that one. The elliptical saucer version (along the X axis). And there are two nacelles, and in some ways it resembles an Akira. I'm sure it was you that came up with those designs.
Yeah, the crazy manta-ray looking thing. It is indeed one of mine, actually I have just been tinkering with it lately. I'll post the revisions on the mailing list just as soon as I figure out what to do with the sauser's ventral surface.
quote: BTW The Hokule'a has had some attention since the last post. Look out for some updated renders soon, possibly tonight...
Righto, I'll have a goosey...nothing yet, I'll check back later.
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
quote:It's a matter of perspective, from my point of view the 2D plans (of the Apollo) are still in their initial stage so there may be alot of details that I'll add later. Until that is all done the 3D model will never be "finished".
Well come on then, my good Reverend. Let's have some new 2D material so I can wrap this baby up...
[QUOTE]Just barely (see the Nebula under construction), maybe you should have put a few spotlights on it or moved it closer to the camera.[QUOTE].
I have a new page outlining a few of the space structures I've built - most of which are as yet incomplete. There's a closer view of that space frame assembley unit here:
quote: They're a bit dark, but hey, space is a dark place.
Could you at least try some artistic licence? what good is a pretty picture if you can't see anything? Besides, an un-illuminated hull like that is a navigational hazard. You don't want those poor workerbee's smashing into unseen support beams now do you?
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
Lovely, lovely. Very nice work on the new schematic. My throw-away comment obviously had you busy on Sunday night. Sorry about that, LOL. But very nice. What's that yellow patch on the saucer.
It seems every time I do a well lit, ambient render people say "it's too light man. Sort out the lighting, space isn''t like that". And when I tone it down and make it more realistic, they say "it's too dark man, I can't see it, where's the light?"
Darn. I can't win. I'll do some lighter ones tomorrow. If I can...
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