This is my first attempt to kitbash a ship on Photoshop. It took me about 3 hours to complete because of various things slowing me down, one of them is the computer itself.
I call her the Bellerphon class, perhaps a frigate version of the Daedalus class. Tomorrow, I'll do the other views.
Does spacing help eliminate the Kirk speak thing???
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Erm... I suppose that the basic layout is interesting in theory. But IMO that half-sphere falls under the category of "seriously fucked up."
You also have to consider the actual size of the ship. The Daedalus had an extremely thin neck, which was just barely feasible if you considered room for one narrow corridor, the structural members, and pipes/power conduits/etc. But if this ship is supposed to be smaller, there's no way you could shrink down the neck further.
Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
The neck and secondary hull is larger. The only thing that is not larger is the primary hull.
Edit: I will also do a comparison as well. I also see a few things that need to be changed. However the after part of the secondary hull is the same diameter as the Daedalus's secondary hull.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Turn it right side up, Matrix.
Mark
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
It's interesting, but I think Mark might be right - perhaps it would be better flipped round the other way.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
quote:Originally posted by Matrix: The neck and secondary hull is larger. The only thing that is not larger is the primary hull.
Okay then. Yes, a comparison would be helpful.
As for turning the design upside-down, I'd suggest starting with the half-sphere first and see how that looks -- I would venture that you wanted to have the nacelles-down arrangement?
This is more of a general problem, but IMO it's difficult to get a "frigate" type ship to complement the Daedalus Class, because the D is pretty darn small to start with. I don't see what a big deal this variant would be if it's not that much smaller.
Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
Can anyone tell me where the 100 meter or so figure came from (besides from the Encyc.)? I mean the ship is roughly the length of a foot ball field, and the beam of the saucer is even smaller. The neck is is one decker, that can barely fit a single deck and any thing that will be needed for the saucer. If it was up to me, the ship would be like 180 meters or something.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Presumably that length is measured from the Ency charts. But I think it could be a bit larger, yes.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
This is delving into the realm of the non-canon, but I think that the Daedalus would be feasible at around 100 meters.
First, I found a Daedalus internal cutaway at Gilso's Schematics site. Definitely non-canon (who would be stupid enough to put an arboretum in a ship that size?), but worth looking at.
Next, I took a few rough measurements in my graphics editor. I used Masao's Daedalus image with a length of 105 meters. Using the scale image provided, I calculated an approximate diameter of the forward sphere to be 30 meters. Using the area formula pi*r^2, I came up with an area of approximately 700 square meters on the centermost deck. Assuming a deck height of 3 meters, that gives room for 10 decks. That would mean 7000 square meters if the primary hull were a cylinder. However, it's not. I didn't go and measure the diameter at each probable deck height -- someone else can do that. Anyway, the total area is probably somewhere in the realm of 4500 to 5000 square meters.
If we assume that only one quarter of the spherical area is devoted to crew quarters, that translates to somewhere around 12.5 square meters of living space per crewman. Not a lot, but hey; this is a small, primitive ship. And also remember that this is JUST the sphere, not the entire ship -- lots of engineering and support equipment can go in the secondary hull.
Things would be tight, but I have no problem with that considering that this is early spaceflight, before they developed the extravagant power generation systems that could support Humanity's every whim. And it's certainly better than living on a 21st century submarine.
Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
12.5 meters for a room, is less than 4 meters width and length of the room. You would barely fit a bed in there.
Anyway, didn't have the time to make the other views. But I did modify the ship alittle and created a comparison for the original.
This is some suggested, flip the ship upside down. I didn't do anything about making the ship 'correct', just flipped it to show how it would look upside down.
This is the modified version, make the nacelles smaller, modified the half sphere alittle and so on.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
quote:Originally posted by Matrix: 12.5 meters for a room, is less than 4 meters width and length of the room. You would barely fit a bed in there.
Right. But like I said, it's a heck of a lot more room than most crewmen get on a submarine. They get communal bunks -- only officers have a tiny alcove that can be blocked off. And the only personal space that crewmen on today's space shuttles and the ISS get are the one lavatory and their own velcro sleeping bag that's stowed away when not in use. Twelve square meters would be a quantum leap in luxury by comparison.
Suggestion for your design, Matrix: Keep the neck and secondary hull the way they are, but flip the half-sphere. How would that work for ya? Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
Which one the original or the newer one?
Posted by Magnus Pym Eye (Member # 239) on :
What's a Bellerphon?
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
Having the cutaway part of the secondary hull underneath makes it look like a precursor to the usual hull undercut/fantail on Constitution and later ships. If you put the impulse emitters there, you should take them off from the back of the ship.
By lowering the primary hull, it's now completely blocking the deflector, rather than only partially blocking it as on Daedalus. I can't see why that would be considered an advantage.
As some other guys mentioned, having half a sphere doesn't make a lot of sense. The main reason for a sphere is that it has low surface area for large volume. Chopping it in half would seem to destroy that advantage without any real benefit.
Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
Well for on thing, the upper right section of the secondary hull is not an impulse engine. It's a shuttle bay. Originally the ship was supposed to be a thru deck carrier, hence the half sphere. If let's say I expand the the hull alittle, maybe make it wider, then then the hull would be about the same size in terms of volume. The so called deflector, I don't think that is a deflector, it shows nothing to be a deflector. If it is, and just being covered, what advantage is that. Or if it is a different type of deflector, why id doesn't have any sort of receptive object like all the deflectors do?
Bellerphon might be spelled wrong, I might have to check, is a WWI era British battleship. It is in fact a dreadnought, the very next dreadnought ship to be built right after the HMS Dreadnought.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Well, the little partial dome on the front of the Daedalus's secondary hull is the closest thing to a deflector dish -- there's certainly not one on the sphere itself.
Please, PLEASE do not make this ship a through-deck carrier! The idea is so ludicrous even for those Constitution-sized kitbashes and the Akira Class, it'd be worse on a ship the size of the Daedalus. Consider that by its very nature, a through-deck carrier has an enormously large internal hangar bay -- and thus loses a disproportionate amount of internal volume just to maintain a few small craft. On a ship the size of the Daedalus, there's no way that engineers could afford to sacrifice that much area. Especially considering contemporary technology.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Matrix, it is Bellerophon. The first of her class. She had two other sister ships, HMS Superb and HMS Temeraire. You are right that she was the second British ship designed and built as a dreadnought.
Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
Well I did know I spelled the name wrong. I also did know she was the namesake of her class.
As for a thrudeck idea, that's why I decided against it. I realized that the it would only allow about a maximum of lets say 10 shuttles/fighters. But I kept the aft shuttlebay though.
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Yes, a comparison would be helpful.