What do you think the role of the Freedom in the fleet would be? It's not a small ship (assuming that's a Galaxy nacelle there)so I guess it would be a cruiser or fiigate (whereas the Ambassador is refered to as a "Heavy Cruiser"). Do you think it would serve in a scout/explorer role or mabye as a patrol ship of some sort (remember that starfleet was a shiney, relatively happy peaceful place at the time of the Freedom class' inception). I built a model of a practical Freedom class ship (added a deflector where that silly giant torp launcher is and Impulse engines too!)and I think once it's updated like the models that I, and Soundeffect built it looks darn good and actually makes sense too. http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=1227830&uid=657989&members=1
Your thoughts?
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
Variety. So the dockworkers and admirals don't get bored staring at the same class of ship passing by their windows every few minuts. Not to mention, Starfleet needs "redshirt" classes to get killed offscreen in a variety of space anomalies, space plagues, and Borg invasions.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I thought that was the Oberth and Miranda's role in the fleet....
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
They could be a monitor of sorts, meant just to stay within a few close solar systems for defense.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Has anyone ever considered that the Freedom's nacelle isn't the same size as the Galaxy's? It could be scaled more akin to the New Orleans nacelle, or perhaps the Proto-Nebula/Melborne mini nacelles? (although that would be pushing it)
Looking at the window patterens might further help in determining it's size. I forget exactly how big and how frequent the windows on the Freedom were, I think that there's at least one good photo of the top side.
In regards to it's function; My money would be on it being a light/medium transport, a short range scout (that one nacelle must have some disadvantage), it could even be a mere training vessel for cadets and new recruits.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I read through all the online debates about the Freedom's size prior to building my model and even tried a test fit of the parts at a few differing sizes (the least likely was the size based on a Connie refit's neck being to scale). I just think the studio model was left without further detail for the same reason as the Niagra. It just was'nt ever meant for close scrutiny. That's why I added practical things to my model.
I kinda dig the trainer and Monitor ideas. The Firebrand could have been assigned to watch over the Wolf sector (as opposed to the tired "only ship in range" line).
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
I don't know why Starfleet would build a unique class of trainers. I think they'd just take some normal ships from various classes and use them for training duty, like the Republic or the Enterprise in ST2.
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
That's a short range ship, with hella big windows on that C deck. It has a small crew adn isn't real combat worthy (no duration or energy for guns). I would like to offer another possibility, transport or small passanger liner.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
THe C deck windows are off a Galaxy class ship: they just look larger when shown verical and not at a 30 degree slant. Panoramic baby! That would probably be their rec-deck (best view in the house and 2 decks high too!
I think the ship is still a multirole vessel(if not very powerfully armed)and could serve well for Stellar Cartography (The ship is the Hubble afer all!), diplomatic missions, planetary survey and re-supply of colony worlds that are off the more traveled shipping routes. And training of course: NO WAY the academy is still using outdated ships to give graduating cadets experience. Look at Dea...er...Red Squad. Using TOS and TMP era ships to train cadets in the TNG era would be like a F-16 fighter pilot training in a P-38. Both are planes, but flying one does'nt prepare you for the other. Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by The359: I don't know why Starfleet would build a unique class of trainers.
Unless they made them "Retard Proof" like the cash registers at Mac Donalds. Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
I'm not saying they'd still be using those very same Constitutions in the 24th century, I'm just saying the Starfleet would merely use any available starship that has some time off for duty. For instance, I bet the Valiant wasn't just for training duty. She probably served normal duty before being assigned to Red Squadron temporarily.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I thought Red Squad was there as mostly observers and that would explain why none of them died at their duty stations in the conflict that killed the Valiant's captain. I think that all starships assigned within a certain proximity of the academy are likely to hve at least some training going on (like new doctors doing an internship).
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Maybe it's just a type of ship that operates out of a Starbase for Commodores and Admirals to move about and around the Federation in?
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Freedom could be a scout or courier, yes. She could also be a low-end destroyer. There is, also the possibility that she's all three.
There's also the thought that Freedom could be the Starfleet equivalent of riverine craft: a small ship in "dirty" systems, ones with significant asteroidal or radiation hazards that's small enough to maneuver around these things. Freedom could also be what we've seen of the "Federation Coast Guard," a division that handles local matters in terms of customs, smugglers, & policing. A large nacelle is needed to overpower civilian vessels & the small saucer is only necessary because homeport is only a few light-minutes or hours away.
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
The idea of her being a small area defence ship sounds pretty good. the design has a very small profile from the sides, front and back which would seem to fit in with this idea. If she's intended for use against either small ships that are relatively lightly armed or against ships that might have concealed weapons (smugglers etc.) then it would make sense to have a hard to hit ship. Again the arguements for it having a relatively low didplacement apply- close to base etc.
A courier for Admirals etc also makes a lot of sense; they can't just grab the nearest Excelsior every time they want to go anywhere after all .
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
What, so they can't just go from the top or bottom? They'd have a great target profile from there Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
The idea of the Freedom being a transport or passenger liner seems highly unlikely, because of the miniscule internal volume. The saucer is practically all the ship's got for all the equipment and quarters, and everything else.
I think I like the "Coast Guard" option the best. Although it's definitely part of the regular Starfleet, the Freedom could still be a kind of ship meant for local patrol.
Of course, in this case "local patrol" means close to Sector 001, and if those are the ships intended to guard Earth, then it's no wonder that aliens like to paint a big bulls-eye on it every few years.
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
I KNOW.. it's a News Ship. Those big windows are there to look good, behind the show's host, as he narrates the WAR.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Jason, you forgot the little "plow" or whatever the fuck it is on the forward underside of the nacelle.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Yeah...I forgot it on purpose! Fuck that little useless thing (what the hell is it anyway?!?) Mabye that was supposed to serve as a deflector or something on the original? It makes the ship look dippy from the sides.
quote:The idea of the Freedom being a transport or passenger liner seems highly unlikely, because of the miniscule internal volume. The saucer is practically all the ship's got for all the equipment and quarters, and everything else.
I'm going with the ship being 430 meters in length, so it would be plenty big enough for all of that, while still being relatively small by TNG/DS9 standards.
quote: I think I like the "Coast Guard" option the best. Although it's definitely part of the regular Starfleet, the Freedom could still be a kind of ship meant for local patrol.
Of course, in this case "local patrol" means close to Sector 001, and if those are the ships intended to guard Earth, then it's no wonder that aliens like to paint a big bulls-eye on it every few years. These ships could operate in two or three ship groups in a sector for fast response to threats and even a Warbird would be pressed to take on three opponents at once.
"Local patrol" could be any disputed system or area where pirate raids or interspecies disputes might occur as well as patrolling the ever boring Romulan Neutral Zone. I also dig these as a better armed alternative to the Oberth "floating target" class of starship for follow-up science missions that the big explorers (Galaxy, Soverign, Nebula) don't hae time to stay for months at a time and conduct.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Maybe it's just to monitor the Neutral Zone?
The underneath bit? - it's an ion pod
Andrew
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
The 430m size seems pretty well established now, so the Freedom is pretty big for a "low-end" ship... But it's all relative anyway. And I'd just love to go by the rationale that Greg Jein no doubt used as well: the Freedom is to mid-24th century what the Saladin was to the mid- to late 23rd. Which, according to FJ, is indeed "low-end warship", or destroyer.
And don't go yelling "It's 100% noncanon" here. It's a sad Trek fact that the role of a starship cannot be discerned from its external appearances, so the noncanon train of thought is all we have. And all the modelmakers themselves had. If it is "modelmaker canon" that single -nacellers are destroyers, then so be it, even if we could find no rationale to it.
Not that we couldn't. A single nacelle is less of a loss in combat than two nacelles. A single hull, OTOH, already carries all the essentials of a starship. An attrition warship could very well "logically" look like the Freedom. And remove the badass torpedo tubes, and you have got this "scout" or "courier" variant, which makes limited sense but is "FJ/modelmaker canon" nevertheless.
I'd be ready to postulate a torp-less Hermes/Cygnus type of ship to accompany the Freedom, and to assign this design to one of the known unseens of the era. Andromeda class, perhaps (the Prokofiev scouted around...)?
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Oh, and as for training ships...
I think it makes great sense to build ships specifically for this task. This way, you don't
a) have to remove your other ships from productive work, or
b) use outdated ships to train people who are going to operate modern ships.
It's a given that a training ship cannot really do productive work, since its crew isn't up to the specs. And it's cheaper to build a ship that has just one phaser emitter than one that has fourteen, when all the phaser training can be done with that single emitter. And when you add up these single-unit savings, it probably *will* become financially viable to build a ship that cannot be pressed to active duty no matter what, and to use the money saved by the single-uniting to construct more of the ships that *can* be pressed to such a duty, *in addition to* the training ship.
All that said, I still don't think the Firebrand is a training ship. The destroyer / attrition warship idea is otherwise the most appealing, but suffers from the fact that we haven't seen any other Freedoms anywhere. In war, they should be the most numerous ships out there! (Perhaps Sisko and the 9th Fleet just got the short straw and were given Mirandas as their attrition units. Or perhaps Starfleet never got around to building sufficiently many Freedoms, as they had miscalculated the economically viable size and designed too big an attrition ship. Some old "75% of the capital ship of the day" rule of thumb from Saladin era probably misled them.)
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Grokca (Member # 722) on :
Weren't these formerly know as the French class?
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
THAT would explain the goofy design.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Grokca: Weren't these formerly know as the French class?
THe French class would not have ANY nacelle! Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
A frying pan without a handle?
I would like to see the Freedom as some sort of testbed for nacelles. Maybe the regular Freedom even has smaller twin nacelles. Anyway, the particular ship at Wolf 359 (the Firebrand) was just ill-fated. Not only because it was destroyed, but because it carried a single Galaxy nacelle and looked like crap at that time. What a shame.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Mabye the Niagra is also one of those "testbed vehicles" then? I really don't know what they were thinking with the Freedon and Niagra studio models: the studio models were HUGE and they still had almost zero detail! -or Impulse Engines! -or Escape Pods! (Freedom only)
...still, I kinda like my oddball ship: it sure stands out in the fleet if nothing else!
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