Topher said this would probably be the best place to stick this, so I apologise if it doesn't seem entirely on-topic.
Long ago, FASA came up with divisions within Starfleet Headquarters. Now, I don't know which of the movie-era RPG books had the full write-up on what they signified or who was to wear them, but I think they were supposed to indicate areas of responsibility (or whatever) for all those white-shirted people working under the nebulous departmental catchall of "Command".
One of the licensees made pins of these insignia, which I shall attempt to describe.
About 1�" high by an inch wide; the top portion is a half-circle and the bottom is flat (so it looks like the outline of an arch); the movie-era circular "gridded starfield" device decorates that upper portion, and is circumscribed by a colour-coded circle bearing the words "Starfleet Headquarters"; over top of this is the elongated five-pointed star that was the TOS Command division symbol, and that was punched out of the middle of the movie-era Starfleet pins; at the bottom of the pin is a horizontal strip of the same colour as the circle described above, bearing the name of the appropriate command branch; just above this in the little bit of space left between it and the bottom arc of the circle the symbol/insignia of that branch is displayed.
I can't remember the full list of Command branches (I think there were between eight and twelve), but they did include Headquarters (violet), Intelligence (black), Marines (royal blue), Communications (apple green, I think), Materiel (orange?), Merchantmarine (?), and so on.
If any one here has good scans of any illustrations FASA did, or good photos of the pins, please would you post or PM me. 'Preciate it...
--Jonah (yep, I'm back)
Posted by machf (Member # 1233) on :
I think I have B&W photos of the pins in some old issue of Starlog...
Posted by machf (Member # 1233) on :
You're in luck - I found not a B&W but a COLOR picture of all 12 pins, among others. Get it here.
Posted by machf (Member # 1233) on :
Here's another scan at higher resolution (well, it was originally twice the resolution, but I reduced it a little bit so it would be under 1MB for upload).
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Heh, those were the very ones I was thinking of. I was all set to go dig out my old Communicators to find that ad page.
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
Interesting. Would these have been departmental logos shown on signage and stuff? That's what I would assume, since they don't look like something that would be worn on a uniform.
B.J.
Posted by machf (Member # 1233) on :
They rather look somewhat like shoulder patches to me...
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
If memory serves, they were worn (when they were worn) just below the regular Starfleet breast insignia. I like 'em on a beret. Or maybe a shoulder strap like Admiral Morrow's adjutant had.
machf, thank you so much. Now, who wants to join me in recreating the branch logos? I don't know how many of these appeared in FASA materials. I have the Starfleet Intelligence RPG books, and there was a greyscale line drawing of the Intelligence logo behind the text in a few places.
--Jonah
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Shouldn't be too hard to do in Illustrator or Photoshop...
Looks as though the two word version of Star Fleet makes its appearance here too.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
There are actually a few more of those; there are 12 in all. Here's a scan from the catalogue section of the official Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country movie magazine:
("Hdquarters" is a typo. It's "Headquarters" on the pin.)
-MMoM
[EDIT: I now see that all the pins are indeed included in machf's scans. Oh well.]
Posted by newark (Member # 888) on :
I am puzzled. What is the difference between a Department of Military and a Department of Marines? Wouldn't it be more logical for there to exist a single department? If I read this right, this case would be analogous to having our United States Marines having their own department, while the rest of the armed forces are headquartered in the Defense Department.
Posted by Captain Boh (Member # 1282) on :
Isn't Starfleet for the most part considdered the military? Though they are not primarily a military orginaization, they do seem to fill the role. Certanly Starfleet Security would more or less fall under military as well.
Posted by SoundEffect (Member # 926) on :
There's also the typo "MATERIAL" which should read "MATERIEL"
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
Military technically just refers to land based armed forces, ie. the army. However, I don't think people have been too bothered about that particular distinction for about 50 years. Also, you'd think that any Federation army would be seperate from Starfleet rather than a department within it.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Also, remember these are areas of responsibility within the Admiralty -- so the guy with the "Marines" pin would be somehow involved in organizing/running the SFMC, while the guy with the "Military" pin would be part of the office handling the offensive/defensive aspect of the ships themselves. I know a lot of people here despise FASA, but I like to refer to them to get raw material to help fill in details for things hinted at in aired material, but never fleshed out.
According to FASA's take on the Marines, there were only a couple classes of ships designed for their use, and they had limited production runs. For the most part, the Marines themselves shipped out aboard starships -- as seen in Star Trek V.
And speaking of Federation armies, did we ever reach a consensus on the nature of the forces stationed on the planet where the Rossas were (cf. TNG "Suddenly Human")? Jeremiah's dad (and his mom?) were wearing Starfleet uniforms, but dialogue referred to ground forces.
My personal take is that during the happy-peaceful time between 2311 (Romulans get asocial) and the 2340s (first Cardassian border skirmishes began here), Starfleet lost a lot of the militaristic feel that grew out of their protracted conflict with the Klingons, and more pacifistic elements in the Federation Council were able to get the SFMC disbanded. The Rossas' group (they had a baby there?) and the folks we saw in "...Nor the Battle to the Strong" and "The Siege of AR-558" were regular Starfleet, but -- as with the Corps of Engineers, they had been training from the get-go for service in a particular specialized discipline OTHER than the exploratory/diplomatic direction Our Heroes have focussed on, and their ships probably reflect that. I imagine the same goes for Starfleet's science or medical vessels.
--Jonah
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Additional:
I found some of those division logos in the three books that comprise FASA's original Star Trek RPG box set, and am doing my best to diddle the contrast. As these are clearly-drawn and a good six inches high, it ought to be easier to work with them once I get them enhanced, traced, and scanned.
And incidentally, there's one logo that seems to have not gotten made into a pin -- Starfleet Academy.
I am going to be at an event this weekend, and cleaning these up will help keep me occupied. I hope to be able to post them next Wednesday.
--Jonah
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
quote:Originally posted by newark: I am puzzled. What is the difference between a Department of Military and a Department of Marines? Wouldn't it be more logical for there to exist a single department? If I read this right, this case would be analogous to having our United States Marines having their own department, while the rest of the armed forces are headquartered in the Defense Department.
I feel like responding to this directly, to make sure my point in the post-before-last was clear...
Starfleet Headquarters is analagous to the Department of the Navy. As the DotN has commands for the various fleets and directorship of the Naval Academy(ies), so too does SFHQ. And just like the DotN has further subdivisions for ship design and construction, undersea warfare, the USMC, Naval Intelligence, JAG, and so on, so too does SFHQ oversee the Starfleet Corps of Engineers, the SFMC, Starfleet Intelligence, etc.
There has thus far been very little to suggest that the Federation has any other military forces, so Starfleet would seem to roll Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Coast Guard, and NASA all together. Some things overlap (like the role of Army and Marine soldiers, in the broader sense, or the use of small [air]craft for reconnaisance, attack, or defense), while some things have no analogues in the other services.
Wow... I wonder what a true joint service would look like and how well it would work...
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Or maybe a shoulder strap like Admiral Morrow's adjutant had.![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
I don't know how many of these appeared in FASA materials. I have the Starfleet Intelligence RPG books, and there was a greyscale line drawing of the Intelligence logo behind the text in a few places.