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<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1" width="95%" align="center"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"><td> <table border="0" width="100%" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"> <td colspan="2" align="left"> <font size="3" color="#FFFFFF" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>T O P I C ��� R E V I E W</b> </font></td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Irishman</b> <br /><small>Member # 1188</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2006,10,3,7,39,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 03, 2006</span> <span class="timeformat-0">07:39 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Just a little something I did for fun. For those of you who are wondering about my scale, I subscribe to the 329 meter TOS Enterprise, so I've scaled up the TMP E by the same ratio here. I've left the Excelsior and Grissom alone, because I don't have any compelling reason to tamper with their sizes. The Merchantman was the reason I started this chart, because we all wonder how big it was supposed to be. The BoP dwarfs it on screen, and that's actually what I went by when scaling it. Making it 40 meters long conveniently makes it slightly shorter than the engineering hull of the BoP. So, it was originally just going to be a chart comparing the two of those vessels. Then I thought it would be fun to include all the vessels shown in the film on one chart. Thoughts? Comments and criticisms are welcome.<br /><br /><br /><a href="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/Irishman/Merchantmantop.jp" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/Irishman/Merchantmantop.jp</a> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Irishman</b> <br /><small>Member # 1188</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2006,10,3,7,40,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 03, 2006</span> <span class="timeformat-0">07:40 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> DAmmit<br /><br />here's the corrected url<br /><br /><a href="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/Irishman/Merchantmantop.jpg" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/Irishman/Merchantmantop.jpg</a> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Peregrinus</b> <br /><small>Member # 504</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2006,10,3,10,40,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 03, 2006</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:40 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> *heh* You missed the other two. But nice so far. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" /> <br /><br />--Jonah <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>AndrewR</b> <br /><small>Member # 44</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2006,10,3,22,6,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 03, 2006</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:06 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> You missed the Excelsior Study from the back of Spacedock. The 'Tug'/'unknown' ship from the front of spacedock and the spacedock shuttles. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Peregrinus</b> <br /><small>Member # 504</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2006,10,4,0,37,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 04, 2006</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:37 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> There was an <i>Excelsior</i> study in Spacedock, too? I know one of the McQuarrie <i>Enterprise</i>s was around the backside of the pylon the <i>Enterprise</i> pulled up to, but I don't remember any other big ships...<br /><br />--Jonah <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>AndrewR</b> <br /><small>Member # 44</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2006,10,4,2,55,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 04, 2006</span> <span class="timeformat-0">02:55 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Oh my bad - it was the McQuarrie ship I was referring to - I think I thought they were one in the same thing - well they are close to each other in Art of Star Trek book. Sorry. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Irishman</b> <br /><small>Member # 1188</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2006,10,4,19,5,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 04, 2006</span> <span class="timeformat-0">07:05 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I was just doing known starships. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Peregrinus</b> <br /><small>Member # 504</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2006,10,5,0,12,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 05, 2006</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:12 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> These <i>are</i> known. Just not named in canon. That McQuarrie design is generally known as the <i>Ariel</i> in fandom. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" /> <br /><br />--Jonah <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Irishman</b> <br /><small>Member # 1188</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2006,10,5,9,3,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 05, 2006</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:03 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Let me rephrase since my meaning doesn't seem to be coming across. I shouldn't have to clarify this. I thought my dedication to canonicity was well-known. I guess that's too much to assume.<br /><br />I was doing MAJOR foreground starships, not background starbase vessels, not starbases, not shuttlecraft, not travel pods, not torpedo casings used as caskets.<br /><br />In my view, the size of the Merchantman is very clearly conveyed in the KNOWN size of the BoP. In Probert's size chart it's known, and I used it to set the size of the Merchantman. Like it or not, it's the way it is. It can't be far removed up or down from 40 meters. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Johnny</b> <br /><small>Member # 878</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2006,10,5,10,11,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 05, 2006</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:11 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I'm sure your scaling is correct. Just goes to show how tiny the Merchantman(where does that name come from, btw? the modellers?) is. Couldn't have had all that much cargo. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>AndrewR</b> <br /><small>Member # 44</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2006,10,6,15,6,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 06, 2006</span> <span class="timeformat-0">03:06 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> You could see the cargo behind them in the Movie. Maybe they specialised in small delicasies. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Mars Needs Women</b> <br /><small>Member # 1505</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2006,10,6,18,34,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 06, 2006</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:34 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> The prototype design and the freighter are really obscure, so much so that I never realized they were ships but rather part of the station's interior. It also didn't help that the the lighting made them blue like the station as well. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Bernd</b> <br /><small>Member # 6</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2006,10,8,4,28,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 08, 2006</span> <span class="timeformat-0">04:28 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Well, the Enterprise at 347m opens a can of worms. Because then you may have to scale up the other ships (at least the Excelsior and the Grissom) as well.<br /><br />The Excelsior because of the saucer rim (the apparently two decks on both ships would be still lower compared to the Enterprise than they are at 305m length of the latter). Well, for what it's worth, you could accept the 511m as in the flawed DS9TM. The Oberth may have to be scaled up anyway because of various issues (deck height, pylons), so this may be a perfect opportunity. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Irishman</b> <br /><small>Member # 1188</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2006,10,8,8,26,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 08, 2006</span> <span class="timeformat-0">08:26 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Well, I have no trouble accepting this Grissom at the suggested scale, largely because it appears to be a refit of a much older vessel. Construction standards in the early decades of the UFP would doubtless have varied somewhat from that of Kirk's time.<br /><br />I don't connect this USS Grissom to the much-later and larger vessel Oberth-class from the TNG. There are obvious scaling reasons not to, and it seems like the larger vessel is better interpreted as a redesigned vessel meant to keep pace with the tech of the time.<br /><br />I have an idea to explain all the occurrences of varying scaled models used by different races and species.<br /><br />Want to hear it? I think it's elegant, plausible as a future technology, and could work across the board. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>B.J.</b> <br /><small>Member # 858</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2006,10,8,8,44,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 08, 2006</span> <span class="timeformat-0">08:44 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Of course we want to hear it! Don't expect everyone to agree, though. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Peregrinus</b> <br /><small>Member # 504</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2006,10,8,11,13,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 08, 2006</span> <span class="timeformat-0">11:13 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Bear in mind the TNG <i>Oberth</i> was intended to be a completely different design, as was the <i>Hood</i> in "Encounter at Farpoint". Time and budget necessitated the re-use of the miniatures from Star Trek III and IV.<br /><br />--Jonah <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Jason Abbadon</b> <br /><small>Member # 882</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2006,10,14,14,3,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 14, 2006</span> <span class="timeformat-0">02:03 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, I have no trouble accepting this Grissom at the suggested scale, largely because it appears to be a refit of a much older vessel. Construction standards in the early decades of the UFP would doubtless have varied somewhat from that of Kirk's time.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">How so? It looks nothing in any way like anything shown in TOS (or even TOS fandom at that point) and was intended to match the Excelsior's design features as a "new generation of starships"- look at all the Excelsior prototype study models- they sport Oberth-like nacelles. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Mars Needs Women</b> <br /><small>Member # 1505</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2006,10,14,17,35,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 14, 2006</span> <span class="timeformat-0">05:35 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I know but the 3-digit registry would imply an older design. Unless Starfleet reserved a section of available registries in anticipation of this "new generation of starship". <br /> </font> </td></tr> </table></td></tr></table> <br /> <br />
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