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Just how do you kill a Transformer?
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by PsyLiam: [QB] Still impressed at your recall Monty. He also appeared in Rhythems of Darkness in ANOTHER parallel universe. BTW, if you want TF comics, check out www.milehighcomics.com. You can buy the TF movie from America. Most modern tapes (even cheap ones) can read NTSC and PAL. And the version currently doing the rounds has Spike saying 'Oh shit!' too. Not that swearing should be applauded. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1" width="95%" align="center"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"><td> <table border="0" width="100%" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"> <td colspan="2" align="left"> <font size="3" color="#FFFFFF" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>T O P I C ��� R E V I E W</b> </font></td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Montgomery</b> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,3,16,7,6,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 16, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">07:06 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I am about to draw on the dusty archives of my brain, where old TF knowledge is stored... <IMG SRC="http://solareclipse.net/Forums/smile.gif"><p>This has bugged me for a while. Just what do you need to do to render a Transformer permanently dead? <p>Previously we've seen some get blasted in the belly, proclaimed "dead", but then repaired and resurrected by means of spare parts, magic life-support tubes, etc. <p>TF:The Movie totalled an alarming number of robots, who mainly suffered external damage, yet certainly seemed to have kicked the bucket. Ol' Prime himself only had a splinter in his ribs, but went the way of the dodo anyway. Moving onto the comics, the Underbase saga saw Starscream zapping characters to pieces, smashing up thier bodies, and rendering them dead. Omega Supreme stood on a couple of Deceps and that's gotta be pretty lethal.<p>Sometmes a quick rebuild from Ratchet is enough:<br>(eg. Bumblebee/Goldbug/Bumblebee)<br>Sometimes their bodies can be in pristine condition with a brainbox intact and still not work:<br>(Oppy after his rebuild following that nasty incident with the joystick attached to his 'ed)<br>Sometimes we see disembodied brains running around without a care:<br>(Throttlebots in toy cars, Bumblebee's brain working on a table in the GI Joe story)<br>Sometimes we see disembodied heads (eg. Straxus) bitching about their lot whilst suspended in life-giving 7-UP.<p>For a definitive answer, we could turn to Death's Head, whom one would think would be well versed in this matter. And sure enough, "Legacy of Unicron" saw him making sure he'd topped Shockwave by squishing his brainbox (ewwww!)<p>But then Oppy got reconstructed from a smegging floppy disc once, so I ask again:<br>How the hell do you kill ne of these things?<br>Smelt them down, pour the metal into a box, bury it with gooseberries and dance on its grave whilst chanting "Nasty, Nasty, Nasty"? <p><p><p>------------------<br>An unborn scream burst in my stomach,<br>and spread like cold mercury through my chest.<br>I covered my face with my hands, but kept looking through my fingers.<br>"Write that down!", he told the stick.<br>"Is visibly destroyed, yet unable to turn away".<p> - Blue Jam<p><small>[This message was edited by Montgomery on April 16, 1999.]</small> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>bryce</b> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,3,16,12,9,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 16, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:09 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I'll answer this based on the canonical TV shows.<p>You must either complete destroy the spark or render the body incapable of maintaining the spark. This can be seen when Dinobot was killed by Megatron and I guess this is what happened to Prime. Their bodies were incapable of mantaining their sparks. Remember Starscream's spark is different. <p>Since Prime was an Autobot his spark joined the Matrix upon his death. When he was rebuilt by the Quittesson; it was just a matter of the Quittesson knowing how to retrieve his spark. Everyone else doesn't know how to retrieve sparks I guess.<p>I guess the Maximals could get the real Dinobot back if they could use the Matrix. Does anyone know who has the Matrix now? <P>------------------<BR>Anyone remember how they felt the day after Rich Mullins died? <p><br> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Krenim</b> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,3,16,13,14,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 16, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">01:14 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> In Beast Wars, Optimus Prime still has the Matrix.<p>Theoretically, you could kill every Transformer except for Starscream and Rampage.<p>In practice, Waspinator is effectively unkillable, since he gets blown up, hacked to shreds, or flattened in every episode. One theory is that his possession by Starscream in "Possession" conveyed Waspinator with his qualities, but the problem with that is that Waspinator got blown up a lot before that episode.<p>Tarantulus also got blown up real good in "The Agenda, Part Three" and was put back together by his spider-bots. I care not to comment on this, as Tarantulus has dubious origins.<p>So we know that the following can kill a Transformer:<p>A transwarp explosion: Primal's spark only got saved because of the unique properties of the explosion, but he needed a completely new protoform.<p>Getting melted: Terrorsaur and Scorponok got thrown into the lava pit in the Pred base and haven't been seen since. Oddly, more than a season later, the same thing happened to Megatron, and it didn't cause a scratch.<p>Ignoring stasis lock: Dinobot, heavily damaged would probably have survived if he had gone into stasis lock. However, he didn't, so the damage he took killed him.<p>Getting blown up real good: Oddly enough, the same explosion Tarantulus survived blew up Ravage. Again, this could be explained by Tarantulus' possible uniqueness.<P>------------------<BR>Garak: Interesting. You saved the day by destroying the world.<br>Bashir: I bet they didn't teach you that in the Obsidian Order.<p>-Deep Space Nine, "Our Man Bashir." <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>PsyLiam</b> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,3,16,14,47,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 16, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">02:47 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> In the comic, future time-line (around 2010) Roddy still has the Creation Matrix, but it's also containing Unicron.<p>IN the present comic timeline, the matrix was destroyed when Optimus used it to give Unicron a really bad case of indigestion...<p>This appears to be pretty effective...<br><img src="http://www.liamnet.demon.co.uk/TFcomics/PoorCyc.jpg"><p>Although the same thing happened to Scorponok, and he was fine. Altohugh that might have something to do with being a headmaster...<p><p>------------------<br>Now that picture should get those not familiar with the comic wondering...<p><small>[This message was edited by PsyLiam on April 16, 1999.]</small> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>The Shadow</b> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,3,16,15,36,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 16, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">03:36 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> In the Bob Budiansky comics, the TFs were pretty hard to kill (thanks to brains that fit on floppy disks and pea-sized module things). Starscream went on his killing spree because there were simply too many characters floating around.<p>TFs barely ever died in the cartoon. Skids and Tailgate might have died, since the last time we saw them they were in poor condition, but it was never explicitly stated. In the movie, OP died, but...he came back. Prowl and Wheeljack died, but they showed up in the Japanese series. Windcharger was also supposedly in the background during "Call of the Primitives." Brawn died...er, no he didn't, my mistake. I guess Ironhide and Ratchet are the only ones who were actually gone for good, especially since their corpses fell into a star in <br>"Dark Awakening."<p>Wait...Prowl was on that star-bound ship, too. Maybe it was Bluestreak in the Japanese series playing a long, drawn-out practical joke. Then again, OP managed to escape a similar death, thanks to those scientists from "Return of Optimus Prime."<p>In conclusion, it's hard to kill Transformers, especially in the cartoon. Very, very hard. <IMG SRC="http://solareclipse.net/Forums/smile.gif"><P>------------------<BR> <A HREF="http://frankg.dgne.com/" TARGET=_blank>http://frankg.dgne.com/</A> <br>Ultra Magnus: "I've never seen anything this beautiful in the entire galaxy...okay, give me the bomb." <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>bryce</b> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,3,16,17,20,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 16, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">05:20 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Do we know has the Matrix in the Beast Wars future? The time period that they came from.<P>------------------<BR>Anyone remember how they felt the day after Rich Mullins died? <p><br> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Krenim</b> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,3,16,18,2,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 16, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:02 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Not for sure, no. There is some speculation, however, that Optimus Prime is one of the Maximal Elders.<P>------------------<BR>Garak: Interesting. You saved the day by destroying the world.<br>Bashir: I bet they didn't teach you that in the Obsidian Order.<p>-Deep Space Nine, "Our Man Bashir." <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>bryce</b> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,3,16,18,44,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 16, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:44 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Any clue what that speculation is based on? <P>------------------<BR>Anyone remember how they felt the day after Rich Mullins died? <p><br> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>PsyLiam</b> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,3,16,21,26,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 16, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:26 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Ya know, for having to draw on very old knowledge, Monty has a pretty good memory recall of TF's. Straxus' bubble of soft drink (or bacta), Exactly WHAT happened to Shockwave (which wasn't mentioned, justshown in one frame) All this from comics he no longer had. I'm pretty impressed.<p>And has NO-ONE noticed who is killing WHO in that picture? Their must be some people wondering...<P>------------------<BR>'My rigid grill structure...'<br>-Dinobot <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Krenim</b> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,3,18,15,19,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 18, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">03:19 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> The speculation isn't based on anything. It's just an idea.<p>Also, while we're on the subject of how to kill a Transformer, it should be noticed that in the cartoon/movie continuity, the Matrix didn't kill Unicron. Sure, it blew up his body and left his head inoperative, but I'm pretty sure that all Scourge had to do was reconnect a few wires and he was talking again, and had the power to restore Starscream's body.<P>------------------<BR>Garak: Interesting. You saved the day by destroying the world.<br>Bashir: I bet they didn't teach you that in the Obsidian Order.<p>-Deep Space Nine, "Our Man Bashir." <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>The Shadow</b> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,3,18,15,31,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 18, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">03:31 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Right. Unicron was very much alive, he simply couldn't do anything.<P>------------------<BR> <A HREF="http://frankg.dgne.com/" TARGET=_blank>http://frankg.dgne.com/</A> <br>Ultra Magnus: "I've never seen anything this beautiful in the entire galaxy...okay, give me the bomb." <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>PsyLiam</b> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,3,18,20,13,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 18, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">08:13 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> true, short of throwing them into the sun, even benig deprived of their head isn't enough.<br>Cloudburst had is head chopped off, but survived.<br>It's possible Cyc died because<br>a/ Megatron is rally hard<br>b/ No-one put his head back on afterwards<br>c/ He's a big chicken-wimp boy.<P>------------------<BR>'My rigid grill structure...'<br>-Dinobot <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Montgomery</b> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,3,20,6,34,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 20, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:34 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> My recall is confined to the UK Comics up to just a few short of the end... (I was misinformed that the series had been discontinued. Only a few months ago did I learn it continued to a conclusion!)<p>My only real info on the cartoon incarnations comes from the Movie. The video of which has eluded several searches of my garage, but may yet resurface. <IMG SRC="http://solareclipse.net/Forums/smile.gif"><p>As for Cyclonus losing his head, well as you know Liam, the events of "Time Wars" excised the future from whence he came, and Cyclonus reappeared in one of the B&W UK stories set in an altered 2009.<br>(I think). So I guess that's another death avoided! <IMG SRC="http://solareclipse.net/Forums/wink.gif"><P>------------------<BR>An unborn scream burst in my stomach,<br>and spread like cold mercury through my chest.<br>I covered my face with my hands, but kept looking through my fingers.<br>"Write that down!", he told the stick.<br>"Is visibly destroyed, yet unable to turn away".<p> - Blue Jam <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>PsyLiam</b> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,3,20,13,27,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 20, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">01:27 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Still impressed at your recall Monty.<p>He also appeared in Rhythems of Darkness in ANOTHER parallel universe.<p>BTW, if you want TF comics, check out www.milehighcomics.com.<p>You can buy the TF movie from America. Most modern tapes (even cheap ones) can read NTSC and PAL. And the version currently doing the rounds has Spike saying 'Oh shit!' too. Not that swearing should be applauded.<P>------------------<BR>'My rigid grill structure...'<br>-Dinobot <br /> </font> </td></tr> </table></td></tr></table> <br /> <br />
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