Flare Sci-Fi Forums: Several Transformer 'Prime' questions

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Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

1: Before Rodimus Prime became Prime he was Hot Rod, right?
2: If yes, what was the previous name (and shape) of Optimus Prime?
3: Was Alpha-trion (sp?) a Prime?? (His previous 'name' was A-3 I believe??)
4: Can Alpha-trion transform?? If yes, what does he change to??

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"What you leave behind is not as important as how you've lived."

- Jean Luc Picard, 'Star Trek: Generations'

Posted by Krenim (Member # 22) on :

1. Yes.
2. Orion Pax. He was a Decepticon wanna-be, but they tricked him and blew him up. Alpha Trion rebuilt him as Optimus Prime.
3. No.
4. Don't know.

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Garak: Interesting. You saved the day by destroying the world.
Bashir: I bet they didn't teach you that in the Obsidian Order.

-Deep Space Nine, "Our Man Bashir."

Posted by bryce (Member # 42) on :

There's a theory that Alpha Trion was the previous highest ranking Autobot. There's a Fanfic (Let me stress FAN FICTION STORY) that has Hot Rod becoming Rodimus while Optimus was still alive. When he opened the Matrix up while fighting Galvatron it was A-3's vioce that said, "awaken Rodimus Prime."

While there is canonical evidence A-3 was Autobot leader, that means he made Prime up. This means all the hoopla about who is Prime is something made up. Either this, or Optimus was Autobot leader for so long that the name Prime became an icon. Kinda like 'Jordan' today. I thing the US comic nailed this down when they had Grimlock and Fort Max as leader of the Autobots.

So really as much as we'd like to believe that their were 20 or so Primes and that there is still one on Cybertron now during the Beast Wars; it is most likely their has just been two!

And as far as I can remember it looked like Orion Pax transformed into a truck resembling Kup. Optimus mostly likely transformed into a tank of some sort, based on the US comic.
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Anyone remember how they felt the day after Rich Mullins died?

[This message was edited by bryce on April 16, 1999.]

Posted by bryce (Member # 42) on :

I want to comment on something else too and try to stay within the TV show timeline.

1. What was going on on Cybertron during the time all the best Autobots and Decepticons were deactivated on Earth?

As far as we know Prime left Aleeta and a few of her g-friends back at Iacon and Megatron just left Shockwave in charge. Who was left; was there any fighting?

2. Ya know, the fact that Optimus had a girlfriend (Aleeta) kinda changes the way you think about him and the rest of the Autobots. Esp. in the pilot where the Autobots were wussin' out on us!

Aleeta and Prime were together before Megatron attacked them at that dock. Back when he as Orion and I can't remember what her name was.

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Anyone remember how they felt the day after Rich Mullins died?

Posted by bryce (Member # 42) on :

Btw, it is assumed either Prime got the Matrix from A-3 while he was being repaired or at some other undocumented time. It's weird that Prime had the Matrix in him for 4 million years on Earth and as important as it was no one ever made an effort to look for it!

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Anyone remember how they felt the day after Rich Mullins died?

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

The matrix doesn't make you 'prime'. Optimus didn't have the matrix within him at several points in the show, (like Return of Optimus Prime) and yet never changed. He was rebuilt physically from Orion pax to Optimus Prime.
Hot Rod is a special case. He was 'the chosen one', and the matrix sorta knew this. That's why it didn't open for Ultra Magnus. When Hot Rod touched the matrix in Unicron, it forced him to grow, physically and mentally, into Rodimus Prime, to defeat Unicron.
The matrix was just a computer program in the comics originally, capable of creating new TF's. When Simon Furman, the UK writer took over, he combined the US creation matrix (which creates new TF life) with the Matrix of Leadership, added in a splash of the essense of Primus, and there you have it. When the matrix is used against Unicron in the comic, it is lost.

BTW Bryce, you said Hot Rod became Prime while Optimus was still alive. How if he was fighting Galvatron, who was created after Prime's death?

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'My rigid grill structure...'
-Dinobot

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

BTW, the cartoon also had a Sentinal Prime, during the second great war...

The comic list, as Frank would love to say, but has been beaten to, is...

Primus (God)
Prima (First TF with matrix presumably)
Prime Nova
Sentinel Prime
Optimus Prime
(Rodimus Prime in UK-comic alternative future)

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'My rigid grill structure...'
-Dinobot

[This message was edited by PsyLiam on April 19, 1999.]

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

Alpha Trion/A-3 was around before the Autobots/Decepticons could transform (with the exception of one character, whom I call "Fred" for various esoteric reasons). So, he presumably cannot.

As far as we can tell, Hot Rod was the only one modified by the Matrix. It probably said, "Hey, this guy is a wimp" and gave him an upgrade. In "Five Faces of Darkness" we see a Rodimus Prime-like leader anyway, so the Matrix might have used his specifications.

Actually, it was OP's (Orion Pax, not Optimus Prime...hey, wait a minute...) friend Dion who transformed into a truck that looked like Kup. In fact, his robot form looked like Kup, too. And A-3 did rebuild him...hey, wait another minute...

The war probably continued those 4 million years, although the ABs were losing.

I suspect OP (the Optimus one) left the Matrix on Cybertron when he went off in the Ark. The thing we saw in "Optimal Situation" was just his spark.

BTW, Liam misspelled Sentinel Prime and Prime Nova. Ha!

Sentinel Prime appeared in issue 150 of the UK comic. Now, if only Goffy would get around to making that scan...no rush, of course...

Prima might have appeared in issue 61 of the US comic, which happens to be posted in a nearby thread...

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http://frankg.dgne.com/
Ultra Magnus: "I've never seen anything this beautiful in the entire galaxy...okay, give me the bomb."

Posted by bryce (Member # 42) on :

Oh... when Prime returned from his death in the cartoon did he have his old body or the powermaster body?

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Anyone remember how they felt the day after Rich Mullins died?

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

Old body. Which had mysteriously been repaired since going grey (in the movie) and loosing an arm (in Dark Awakening). The video box cover had PM Op Prime though...
He came back before the PM's were introduced. They never appeared in the US cartoon anyway.

*still cringes at the Bob Budiansky line when Optimus came back: It can, it is, Optimus Prime is BACK! said by Optimus Prime*

How the hell did he fit his personality on a 720k floppy dis anyway (or 880k if it was an Amiga disk... )

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'My rigid grill structure...'
-Dinobot

Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :

...with WinZip, Unicron Edition, of course....

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"......"
��-The Breen at Internment Camp 371

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

Naa, it would have been the Matrix edition. The Unicron edition was the Mac version...

And was also used on Megatron's brain when he was turned into Galvatron. Being a Mac explains why Galvatron turned out the way he did...

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'My rigid grill structure...'
-Dinobot

Posted by bryce (Member # 42) on :

Is there anything with all the Decepticon leaders ending in 'tron' too, or is that just a conscidense? (sp.)

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Anyone remember how they felt the day after Rich Mullins died?

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

Obviously intentional. What movie portrays the evil that is technology better than Tron?

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"I'm sick, like Nixon was sick, my defeated heart keeps beating on. I won't die, like Chucky won't die."
--
They Might Be Giants

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

No, Tron is just evil. In and of itsrlf. Anyone who watche sit deserves a mercy execution.

And they don't all end in Tron.

The almost complete list of Decepticon leaders...

Present time...

Megatron
Shockwave
Lord Straxus (cybertron leader)
Scorponok
Ratbat (yes. Ratbat. One of Soundwave's tapes. Don't laugh, it was an American comic writers idea...)
Thunderwing (big Mega Pretender bloke)
Lord Jiaxus (I think, not sure on this one)

And future timeline from 2005 onwards...
Megatron
Galvatron
Shockwave
Soundwave (yay!)

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'My rigid grill structure...'
-Dinobot

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

No, Tron is just evil. In and of itsrlf. Anyone who watche sit deserves a mercy execution.

And they don't all end in Tron.

The almost complete list of Decepticon leaders...

Present time...

Generation 2:

Tank Megatron
Lord Jiaxus (I think, not sure on this one)

And future timeline from 2005 onwards...
Megatron
Galvatron
Shockwave
Soundwave (yay!)

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'My rigid grill structure...'
-Dinobot

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

You forgot Bludgeon. And didn't Death's Head make Cyclonus and Scourge leaders in the future timeline?

BTW, the correct spelling is Jhiaxus. Anyone who guesses where that name comes from gets a prize.

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http://frankg.dgne.com/
Ultra Magnus: "I've never seen anything this beautiful in the entire galaxy...okay, give me the bomb."

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

I know, so I can't say. It has got something to do with the G2 comic only running for 12 issues.

Yeah, Cyc & Scourge were future leaders for a while. A short while.

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'My rigid grill structure...'
-Dinobot

Posted by bryce (Member # 42) on :

Well, when I think of the TFs I just use the cartoons as my sources. To me the comics kinda went into a non-canonical direction after #24 (US). Everything after that makes no sense with the cartoons. They contradict each other.

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Anyone remember how they felt the day after Rich Mullins died?

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

That's correct. The comics and cartoon follow their own separate chronologies. They're both canon by themselves.

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http://frankg.dgne.com/
Ultra Magnus: "I've never seen anything this beautiful in the entire galaxy...okay, give me the bomb."

Posted by Brown_supahero (Member # 83) on :

I know it's a stupid question but.....
what does "canon" mean?

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"Execute"
Captain Styles
USS Excelsior (ST III)
Hey I'm sick of "Engage"

Posted by Krenim (Member # 22) on :

It's just a fancy term for something that officially happened. Take Star Trek for example. Canon is the TV Shows and the movies (some people exclude V and VI). Non-canon is all the books out.

Same thing with Transformers, except each medium has its own canon/non-canon stuff. Things in the cartoon didn't necessarily happen in the comics, although there are some parallels.

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Garak: Interesting. You saved the day by destroying the world.
Bashir: I bet they didn't teach you that in the Obsidian Order.

-Deep Space Nine, "Our Man Bashir."

Posted by bryce (Member # 42) on :

Frank, m'man, you know two sources that oppose each other can't both be canon!

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Anyone remember how they felt the day after Rich Mullins died?

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

Yes they are. The cartoon and comic have nothing to do with each other, except they use similar characters.

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http://frankg.dgne.com/
Ultra Magnus: "I've never seen anything this beautiful in the entire galaxy...okay, give me the bomb."

Posted by bryce (Member # 42) on :

But Frank; the cartoon was strickly watched over by Hasbro. They left the comics go off on their own.

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Anyone remember how they felt the day after Rich Mullins died?

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

Not really, but what's your point?

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http://frankg.dgne.com/
Ultra Magnus: "I've never seen anything this beautiful in the entire galaxy...okay, give me the bomb."

Posted by bryce (Member # 42) on :

IT's just the cartoons were the more watched over thing; they were what Hasbro really wanted!

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Anyone remember how they felt the day after Rich Mullins died?

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

I doubt it, and why would it matter?

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http://frankg.dgne.com/
Quintesson: "You are the Autobot named Kup. You are Cybertron's chief of security."
Kup: "Nah, my name's Teaspoon, and I'm Cybertron's chief dishwasher."

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

And the comics (the Simon Furman-written comics) were SOOO much cooler anyway. People died, people were reborn, Wheelie only ever appeared in ONE story ever, Ultra Magnus wasn't a big suck looser, Rodimus Prime didn't spend all his time going 'I'm crap, I'm crap, I'm not as good as Optimus' and when Galvatron went insane, rather than just ineffectually beating up his own troops, he tried to exterminate the entire Transformer race, and came pretty close to succeeding.

So Nyah.

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'My rigid grill structure...'
-Dinobot

Posted by Montgomery (Member # 23) on :

It must be said though, that Rodimus Prime wasn't a patch on Optimus. Maybe if he'd been taller, or had a cool block over his mouth that wiggled hyptonically when he talked....

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An unborn scream burst in my stomach,
and spread like cold mercury through my chest.
I covered my face with my hands, but kept looking through my fingers.
"Write that down!", he told the stick.
"Is visibly destroyed, yet unable to turn away".

- Blue Jam

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

I dunno, I cas see Rodders listening to Quinten Tarantino films, memerising the dialogue.

And he had a cool yellow spoler thing.

And in the comics he defeated Unicron at least twice. Optimus only managed to destroy Unicron once. Pah.

And at least he shot Decepticons occasionally.

And he did all despite despite being lumbered with Judd Nelson as a voice.

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'My rigid grill structure...'
-Dinobot

Posted by Montgomery (Member # 23) on :

Depends if were talking about TV or comics. As I recall, the comic Roddy spent most of his time wailing about how the Matrix was corrupted, and how everything seemend hopeless.

I also recall him getting beaten up by just about everyone he ever got in a fight with, and "Time Wars" rather showed that of the two only Oppy could go toe to toe with Galvatron at his most upset.

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"I AM THE SPIDER!!!!"
- Vic Reeves

Posted by bryce (Member # 42) on :

Well, ya gotta remember Rodimus was nothing more than a bigger, stronger Hot Rod. He was quite young and inexperienced. Optimus is probably ancient, better skilled and wiser. Rodimus didn't have a clue what to do most of the time. He did remember to yell "Autobots Roll Out" most of the time though

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Anyone remember how they felt the day after Rich Mullins died?

Posted by Montgomery (Member # 23) on :

Not the most auspicious of battle cries...

"They're coming straight at us!"
"There's Thaaaahsands of 'em!"
"What do we do sir?"
Roddy:
"Er...Autobots, Roll out!"

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"I AM THE SPIDER!!!!"
- Vic Reeves

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

Ahh, but Galvatron had already boosted his strength several issues earlier.

And lets assume that Rodders and Op are the same strength. Megs was Ops strength (slightly weaker actually) but Galvatron is stronger.

But...Galvy didn't fight normal Optimus. He fought POWERMASTER Optimus (now with free packet of Jif bathroom cleaner)!

And Roddy has two advantages over Op. He can eat stuff. And he can take Spike and Family out for road trips in true luxury. And then drop them off the cliff.

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'My rigid grill structure...'
-Dinobot

Posted by bryce (Member # 42) on :

Nice advantage Rodimus has there.

btw, I remember an ep. where Op fired the canon from his trailer, well, the trailer was destroyed. Prime didn't even flinch and then ran right into the battle itself. ?

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Anyone remember how they felt the day after Rich Mullins died?

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

I'm sure he was just bottling it up. The moment he got back to the ark, he broke-down, and started talking of lost love, and how someone so young can have their life cut short.
And Wheeljack quielty built him another trailer, then brainwashed him into forgetting the destruction of the other one, so that once again. he could become the brave, valient, heroic, prattling moraliser that everyone loved and respected, and maybe got just the teensiest bit bored with.

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'My rigid grill structure...'
-Dinobot

Posted by bryce (Member # 42) on :

Nice explanation Liam!

But, how can ya get bored with him? He's like Cyclops or Captain America. (whoops forget Cap!)

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Anyone remember how they felt the day after Rich Mullins died?