Flare Sci-Fi Forums: My brother and I just saw Starship Troopers last night.

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Posted by MIB (Member # 426) on :

Both my brother and I were thinking that this is one shitty movie. we saw it once before many years ago and we had forgotten how crappy it really was......untill now.

We had gigantic wingless mesquitoes that can launch giant terds at escape velocity, dumbass ground troops that were using mechine guns designed to take out a human against insects with strong boney exo-skeletons and are nearly 20 times bigger than I am, and dumbass starship pilots who have never heard of the idea called loose formations.

Does it come to anyone's surprise that the ships in Starship Troopers where so easily destroyed? They were flying so close to each other that they couldn't manuver to avoid the giant terds and if they got hit and loose control, the ships would ram one another.

As for the ground troops; What the hell were they doing using little machine guns? If it were me, I'd be pulling out grenade launchers, rocket launchers, shotguns with 20oz slugs with explosive tip, plasma weapons, (We have them today in real life. Why don't they have them in......THE FUTURE?) cruise missle launchers, and one REALLY large can of Raid. I know. I know. That was a REALLY cheap shot. On the other hand, later in the movie they have shown that they can simply fire bomb all the giant bugs. So why don't they? Excess of troops they wanted to get rid of perhaps? Or perhaps it's the way they get rid of those charged with insubordination in......THE FUTURE!

Most of the cast were a bunch of chunk heads that can't act and I found that Doogie Houser intelligence guy to be a bit distracting. I found the "news" breaks thrown into the movie here and there just, plain annoying, and the giant bugs' motives for attacking Earth were never explained. I think that's the most irritating thing of all. I'm gonna take a guess and say that all the shares of Orkin they held fell in price by 50% and they just got angry.

[ June 19, 2001: Message edited by: MIB ]

Posted by USS Vanguard (Member # 130) on :

The problem is it tries to be too many things at once
there's the laughable attempts at being credible with the fascist "themes" and ss style uniforms
but that's quickly undermined by the actors who are doing a rendition of Melrose Space. The gratuitous nudity, while enjoyable, was totally out of place and made the movie that much more silly. Now the movie could've worked as a tongue in cheek camp action flick, what with the "newsbreaks" in 50s propaganda style. But that's ruined by...again the attempts to make it somewhat faithful to seriousness of the novel.

that said. i still watch the movie if i have the chance. if only to watch the wicked fx and...gratuitous nudity.

Posted by TerraZ (Member # 233) on :

Actually, I think the whole point of movie as it was shown by Verhoeven (the director, probably spelled wrong) was that humanity were the bad guys and had started the conflict by invading the Arachnids territory. The novel was considered by a lot of people as quite facists. Not that I would know since I haven't read it but that idea was amplified in the movie.

Remember that Mormon colony mentionned in one of the news break? They colonized an Arachnid planet, the bugs fought back and now humanity wants nothing more than to exterminate them all in revenge.

Starship Troopers: The Roughnecks (the CGI animated series) was based more on the book or so they say. Humans are clearly shown as being superior to the bugs. They have lots of weapons (machines guns, laser canons, tactical nukes (oh wait, they had those in the movie ) and vehicules such as air fighters, water speeders and the likes. And nobody ever dies . Well, what do you expect from a kids show ?

Of course, the real reasons humans get it so hard si because Verhoeven was heavly traumatised in WWII and likes to show lots of blood and guts in his movies. For examples:

Robocop: See the special edition when Murphy gets slaughtered at the beginning of the movie. Especially the "exploding" hand...

Total Recall: Knife and axe wounds, perforated neck, arms ripped from torso, and more...

Starship Troopers: Well, no moment in particular, the whole movie is a giant blood fest...

Posted by MIB (Member # 426) on :

Oh yeah! Thanks for reminding me USS Vanguard! I competely forgot about the SS uniforms. When I saw Doogie Howser in that uniform, the first thing that popped into my mind was "Has Doogie become a Nazi?"

[ June 19, 2001: Message edited by: MIB ]

Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :

You can see at the end of the film that they've obviously figured out that little machine-guns don't cut it, and they're starting to use heavier weapons.

Posted by MIB (Member # 426) on :

But the problem is that you'd think those chunk headed troopers would have relized that by just looking at one of those bugs. Lord knows if it were me, I'd be pulling out a bazooka if I saw one of those things. They just had to have lost most of thier military forces before they would say, "You know what? These dinky machine guns don't cut it. We should use heavier weapons!" Then my responce to them would be, "No shit, Sherlock!"

[ June 20, 2001: Message edited by: MIB ]

Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :

Actually, it struck me as pretty close to military thinking, really.

Posted by Treknophyle (Member # 509) on :

Trust me - read the novel. And no, it is not about a fascist state. It is about ANY person who wants a voting franchise earning it, instead of 'bread and circuses'.

And it is easily 100 times better than that awful movie.

- Heinlein Fan.

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

You forget, Trekno, that there are those out there to whom the very IDEA of 'earning' rights is a fascist concept... but that's a topic for the flameboard.

The book is so much better than the movie that they haven't named a number high enough yet to describe the percentage by which it is better.

Plus in the book the soldiers have battlesuits and portable tactical low-yield nukes.. hardly outclassed.

Posted by Treknophyle (Member # 509) on :

Pos-Def. I believe that this book introduced (I won't say invented) the concept of "powered exoskeletal armor". As well as a practical system of democracy.

A movie based CLOSELY on this novel would be absolutely awesome. Better action. Better effects. Better characters. Far superior storyline.

Posted by Nimrod (Member # 205) on :

Well, Verhoeven makes fun movies, not good ones. RoboCop is my favourite of his.

About the gore he is notorious for; it's called entertainment violence, and this is in one of its purest forms. Have you ever seen splattermovies? Braindead is "right cool", as they say.

Well, it's 21:30 hours and I've only used up 21 out of my daily 30 weightwatcher points, so I have to eat about 1/3 bag of chips/crisps and two glasses of Coke now to make ends meet. Yay me!

Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :

Back in the 1980s, I think, there was a Japanese anime adaptation of Starship Troopers. I've never watched it, but it does include troopers with jumping power armor, which resembles that in the SF3D line of Japanese science fiction model kits.

Supposedly, the idea of "bugs with guns" was dismissed as ludicrous by Verhoven. Of course, the movie then comes down to fighting an interstellar war against animals, which is even more ludicrous.

I've mentioned this before, but I recommend reading "The Forever War" by Joe Haldeman. It was written in response to Starship Troopers and is an allegory of the Vietnam War. Also has cool power armor and big nasty ships. Has anyone else read this book?

Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :

Naturally. I wouldn't, however, bother with the 'companion' book Forever Peace or the outright sequel Forever Free.

Posted by Nimrod (Member # 205) on :

In the book, the "brain bugs" are as small as those little runners that surround the movie "brain bug".
I seem to remember a mobile infantry soldier (in the book) that fell down into a hive and picked up one of the little brain bugs and held it to his chest so the soldier bugs wouldn't attack him.

Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :

quote:
I've mentioned this before, but I recommend reading "The Forever War" by Joe Haldeman. It was written in response to Starship Troopers and is an allegory of the Vietnam War. Also has cool power armor and big nasty ships. Has anyone else read this book?

Yes, we actually recorded it at the Books on Tape recording studio where I work. I liked it very much (although it was kind of wierd that Haldeman decided to remain true to his original manuscript and have the war and interstellar travel take place not long after the Vietnam war ended).

Posted by MIB (Member # 426) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Treknophyle:
Pos-Def. I believe that this book introduced (I won't say invented) the concept of "powered exoskeletal armor".

It's funny you mentioned that. I have a subscription to Popular Mechanics and Popular Science and on the June 2001 issue of Popular Mechanics, on page 15, there is an article on how solders of the future would be wearing powered exoskeletal armor. Here is the article word for word.

"Anticipating that future wars will be fought in confined urban areas where it is difficult to deploy large numbers of troops, the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) is attempting to create exoskeletons that could turn soldiers into supermen.
Unlike bionic limbs that would be sugically implanted, exoskeletons would strap on like body armor. Sensors would monitor electrical activity in the muscles to determine how the soldier wants to move a particular limb. Pistons and motors would give soldiers the power to carry heavier weapons, lift cars or punch through walls. Exoskeletons would make it possible for a soldier to literally leap over a tall building in a single bound. Troops could exit low-flying aircraft without ropes, using their steel limbs to absorb the shock.
With DARPA funding, researchers at several universities are already at work refining the sensor and computer technology to put exoskeletons on tomorrow's battlefields."

Cool huh?

Posted by USS Vanguard (Member # 130) on :

Super cool.

Posted by Wes1701E (Member # 212) on :

I havent read the book, but the movie (for me) was pretty damn cool. Its the plain gory alien ass-kicking movie with guns and explosions and boobs that everyone is afraid to make these days. I love that movie alot. I think it will be one of my favorites for the rest of my life.

The guns are called Maritas and fire what seems to be a 7.62mm round. (for you non gun nuts, thats the same as the 'AK') This round has enough power to go through exoskeliton if its anything like human bone.

I really, really, like the fleet version of that gun.

Posted by Nimrod (Member # 205) on :

You mean the shorter, more compact one that Denise Richards' pilot-boy used when picking up the guys from the falling outpost?

I am very dissapointed in the Marita actually. We have viable caseless ammunition since ten years back, the only reason it hasn't become standard is because it's too expensive to manufacture and standardize, IIRC.
So in the future of 'Starship Troopers', I was hoping they'd managed to build portable laser-units Akira-Style (well we have big ones mounted on 747's...) or at least machineguns with alternative ammo and 100 shots per clip.
The 7.62 round is pretty good still (The finnish "Sako M92" assault rifle is the best Kalasjnikov-conversion IMO, perfect marriage btw AK47 and Colt M4A1) but the mobile infantry need both faster cyclic rates and bigger clips to fight the bugs.

Now we don't know if that test rifle we saw in the end was firing its primary ammo or just an attachable launcher, if it's the former then they have a grim gun, if it's the latter then they probably still have the old 7.62 underneath the plastic surface.

Now the 10mm caseless M41-A pulse rifle, THAT'S a gun!!
There's a page dedicated to it's manufacture, with the painstakingly thorough conversion from a Thompson Commando .45 to the final result, with a mounted SPAS 12 assault shotgun posing as slug launcher.

Question about Starship Troopers: Their term "Mobile Infantry", is there any such term in real life, or did Heinlein just make it up to make it sound more advanced and formidable than the current "infantry"?

Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :

"Mobile infantry" would seem to be much like the concept of "armored cavalry" which is in use today. Examples would be things like the LAV-25 & the M2/M3 Bradley.

I could be dead wrong, though. I never was good at gropo stuff.

Posted by MIB (Member # 426) on :

I don't know Wes1701E. While the nudity and fx were enjoyable, I thought the plot was predictable and that the charactors where more like dumb chunkheads the marines were trying to get rid of rather than them being actual marines.

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

quote:
Its the plain gory alien ass-kicking movie with guns and explosions and boobs that everyone is afraid to make these days.

Buh? Do you live in some bizarre broadcast area that only gets repeats of Rashoman and Snow Falling on Cedars? Your description applies to...let me double check...99.83923% of all films made in the past ten years.

Posted by BlueElectron (Member # 281) on :

The movie did no justice for the book.

In the book, people have battle-suit that protect them from harsh environment and enable human to duke it out "mano a mano" style with the bugs. With the help of the armour, people can actually "punch through" bugs. Plus the concept of air support actually means something in the book. BTW, when they say "drop", it's not like crappy ass airship drop like the one seen in the movie, it's more like soldiers dropping from mothership in space into the atmosphere one by one like para-troopers in the modern military.

Posted by MIB (Member # 426) on :

Wow. Those spacsuits they were wearing musthave been made from a really tough material if they can do that.

Posted by Nimrod (Member # 205) on :

I think the propulsion sys was like really advanced "EVA" packs, if you catch my drift.

The fuel for EVA thrusters generally seem to run out rather fast, and the Mobile Infantry Soldiers of the book seemed to have enough to last them for at least a standard mission, (like five-six hours or something?) so they would have to be pretty efficient...
I don't remember what kind of hardware they were packing but Heinlein made it sound nice 'n thick, grenade launchers and pulse doodaahs, I guess.

Posted by TLE (Member # 280) on :

I liked it and even bought the DVD the other day. It was only like $15 so I figured why not?

If you don't try to look at it seriously or think too far into it and view it as a summer action flick, it's quite good.

Posted by Wes1701E (Member # 212) on :

Caseless ammo is still impractical. the HK G11 uses caseless ammo, but its expensive rounds. Plus, cases look cool flying out of the gun..

The fleet version was the shorty the pilot had. It is what the M4 is to the M16.

Posted by Wes1701E (Member # 212) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sol System:
Buh? Do you live in some bizarre broadcast area that only gets repeats of Rashoman and Snow Falling on Cedars? Your description applies to...let me double check...99.83923% of all films made in the past ten years.

Oh no, i know that a lot of movies are like that.
The truth is-- starship troopers TRIED to be that brainless movie, and IMO, it worked.

Posted by MIB (Member # 426) on :

Nah. I got the sense that they were trying to make a serious film with the people dieing left and right, and with Rico's girlfreind getting stabbed 80 million times by a warrior bug and then slowly dieing in Rico's arms. That and the SS style uniforms.

[ November 19, 2001: Message edited by: MIB ]

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

I got a sense that they were trying to be an action movie with a semi-satirical farce of the military mindset, and while a farce is a good thing sometimes, this one wasn't suitable for farcing, and fell flat.

Posted by TLE (Member # 280) on :

Well the story goes, Verhoven was traumatized by WW II or something and now all his movies are graphic, but SST was a satire of Nazistic parties or something. If you look at it as a satire, it works better. Even satires can have serious scenes too in any event.

Posted by Michael_T (Member # 144) on :

I don't know, how serious can a scene be with Denise Richards naked? Or how about that shower scene?

Posted by USS Vanguard (Member # 130) on :

Just a side note, Denise Richards doesn't actually appear naked in the movie. ironic huh. actually she apparently got into a big argument with verhoeven over a nude scene that she felt was...get this, gratuitous. heehee. too bad. i guess there's always wild things.