Ok, So I was watching "Fellowship Of the Ring" again tonight, and something struck me, which it seems should have struck me before. It had been a while since I had read the books, and it's been a while since I've watched B5, so maybe this is coming late to the table. but doesn't Khazad-d�m (Kazadoom) (Where Gandalf dies) sound an awful lot like Z'ha'dum (Zahadoom) where the Shadows live and where Sheridan dies. Doesn't Gandalf know that if he goes to Khazad-d�m he's gonna fall into shadow? Isn't that an awful lot like Kosh's warning to Sheridan that if he goes to Z'ha'doom he'll die? Doesn't that kind of make you mad?
Posted by G.K Nimrod (Member # 205) on :
Very many cool-sounding alien/exotic names are taken from and inspired by LOTR. Practically all of the Diablo-games (the sacred brotherhood Horadrim and LOTR:s Rohirrim) have names from there, and most other fantasy/medieval movies/games take inspiration from it, like all 70's martial arts-movies were inspired by Bruce Lee. One can but look at it like the truest form of flattery, albeit less creative.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
He MAY have taken the name. I think he actually addressed it in one of his usenet posts, though. The actual plot, however, was taken from old greek mythology. You know, go to hell and back again?
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
I think most B5 fans know that JMS was very inspired by LotR. I haven't read or seen the movie yet to point out the similarities though.
One though....
Lord of the Rings B5:Lengend of the Rangers
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Lorien -> Lorien Khazad Dum -> Z'Ha'Dum Rangers -> Rangers
Yes, he pulled quite a few things from LotR.
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
. . . which is used by the show's detractors to condemn the show, every time. It gets tedious, especially when it has very little in terms of plot or settings, and only occasional similarity in names (and character traits), in common.
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
So? The whole "Ring of Power" was taken from an old philosopher story. The word "Hobbits" probably came from "Hobbes". Lots of philosophical influence.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Old philosopher story? The ring of Gyges...I think, was a Greek myth reused for moral effect in the Republic, but I'd hardly call it an old philosopher story. The one about Hobbes going to the chemist, that's an old philosopher story.
Because he was quite old, you see.
Thus an old story.
About someone who is old.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
You're not very funny.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
It would have been funny if I had actually gotten it. But things tend to be less funny when they have to be explained.
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
Hey, don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to condemn the show or anything. I just remember thinking how cool that whole thing with the foreshadowing of Sheridan's death and his plummet into fate was. I remember that it resonated pretty strongly when I watched it. I guess understanding why exactly it did seem so familiar makes it kind of disappointing. I had assumed this was all stuff JMS had come up with on his own, and that he was therefore my hero. I mean sure there's only so many plots, but, well, the whole Khazad-d�m / Z'ha'dum thing just cheapened it. Made it seem less like an homage and more like plagiarism. B5 is still a great yarn. So epic, and vivid. I love it dearly, but perhaps today I love it a little less. Kind of like when you find out that Noah wasn't the only guy building an Ark to survive a flood.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Well, in TFotR, the Balrog somewhat unexpectedly shows up and attacks, so Gandalf knocks the bridge out from under it, and then it pulls Gandalf in after it. In "Z'ha'dum", Sheridan goes to the planet knowing he's going to die, he intentionally crashes the Whitestar into the planet on top of himself, and he fully expects to die until Kosh tells him to jump. Aside from the fact that the place-names sound the same, and both involve someone falling into a pit, being presumed dead, then showing up alive, I don't see so much resemblance.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Well, the entire thematic...push, of both scenes are similar. But that's hardly an indication of plagerism.
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
It's not a case of plagiarism. Think of Harry Potter. That also bears some striking resemblances to LOTR.
The whole Sauron / Voldemort analogy for example. They are even both called "The Dark Lord". And there are many other similarities.
But does anyone accuse J.K.Rowling of plagiarism? Of course they don't. Because then you could call many films, series, etc. plagiarisms as most of them draw from classic stories, myth, history, etc.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
"The one about Hobbes going to the chemist, that's an old philosopher story."
You should probably have called it an old sorcerer's story. Then more people might have got it.
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
Completely off topic, I know, sorry, but does anyone know why the philosopher / sorcerer change was made to the title of Harry Potter 1 in the US only? After all, there is no sorcerer's stone. It has always been the philosopher's stone.
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
Simple really. Sorcery = cool, philosophy = boring. They figured ver kids wouldn't go and see a movie with the word 'philosophy' in it, never mind that all said kids had already read the book. . .
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Lee, I hate to tell you this, but the book was also called Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone over here.
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
Which actually reinforces my point. I took it from Autin's post that the book had had the proper title over there.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
No, and the books were edited so that a poor American child didn't accidently read the word "fortnight" and burst into flames.
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
Scholastic also made the cover art all childish and cartoony. Which is forgiveable. Kind of. They also put pictures in the body of the text, in case some poor American child's imagination stalled and needed to be shunted into action again. Which is unforgiveable.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Pictures?
Er, no they didn't.
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
Strange that they don't imagine that American children should have as much imagination as children in other parts of the world. Well, perhaps...who knows...
Posted by Daryus Aden (Member # 12) on :
I think if you look carefully at any of the writers in the fantasy / sci-fi genre you can see similarities with Tolkiens work. He simply covered so much with his books that you can only vary on the theme. Simply put he not only covered the bulk of the gambit but set the whole trend with the genre. David Eddings, Raymond E. Fiest and a whole group of others have stories that glaring borrow from Tolkien. And so on and so forth. Doesn't mean that they don't have merit. They're more paying homage to a great writer than ripping him off.
My two cents worth, anyway
For those of you who liked LOTR the Silmarillion is a crackingly good read. If you have the patience!
Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :
"The word "Hobbits" probably came from 'Hobbes'."
I think it's from the Old English word for "hole-dweller."
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
The cover-art is kinda cartoony anyway, if Canada has the same versions we do. Especially the first book. Although by Goblet of Fire they've gotten all posh. And then there are the "adult editions", which have far more subtle covers.
I shall now steal a joke from Total Film and translate the other book titles for the Americans.
Harry Potter and the Big Room where you keep stuff you don't tell no-one. Harry Potter and the bad man who is from the place bad wizards are kept. Harry Potter and the cup of hot stuff.
Posted by Daryus Aden (Member # 12) on :
Harry Potter V. The Curry from the seventh circle of hell
![[Smile]](smile.gif)