Is anyone still watching the show? Any of you, that is. I catch the odd ep now, but have lost interest for the most part. The post Wolfe eps have been, well, I don't think there has been one that I liked. Everything after "Oroboros" is post Wolfe, even though his name is still there, he said himself that he had little or nothing to do wiht any eps after "O".
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
I missed most of the episodes after "Ouroboros" but I did catch one about a week ago -- we finally got to see a Vedran.
Overall the series has taken a serious dive, IMO. But there still seem to be some hints about the original arc left... we'll have to wait and see whether they'll be eliminated like RHW himself, or if it's something that's actually "uncomplicated" enough for morons like Kevin Sorbo.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
It's not Andromeda anymore. It's Hercules in Space. I used to love the show, but starting a couple episodes prior to "Ourobouros" (which I didn't like much) the show suddenly and conclusively nosedived for me. I'll finish the season, but won't be keeping with the show afterwards.
Here's what I had to say about it on a newsgroup, when adequately prompted:
***
Woo hoo! An excuse to rant about a once-great show!
"Anna L. Heimann" wrote: > > T > h > i > s > > m > i > g > h > t > > c > a > l > l > > f > o > r > > s > p > o > i > l > e > r > > s > p > a > c > e > > Is anyone here still watching Andromeda? Will anyone here continue > watching it after the latest episode? The Dylan Hunt is expendable > because he's gotten everyone else on the crew to think just like he > does episode (Of course, we know that Dylan Hunt is going to live, > how could he not? Isn't he the star of the show?)?
People once feared that the show would simply be "Hercules in Space". I was among the greatly-relieved when the first season amply proved the contrary. But now... But NOW...
There are no ifs, ands or buts anymore. It *is* Hercules in Space. And now, all the original vices are gone. Tyr's agenda. Beka's competitiveness. Rev Bem's sage advice. It's Herc and his merry men, who all follow him blindly as he abandons his original mission.
Oh, hadn't you heard of that? Well, in case you were wondering, the show will no longer be about restoring the Commonwealth. In various reports online, the remaining producers have let us know that from now on, the show won't be about putting civilization back together. Instead, it will be simply about a tiny group of people going around, helping people, and having increasingly hokey adventures.
*cough*Herc*cough*
It keeps going, too. They have said that the long story arc is going out the window. At *best*, we'll see story elements that go on for a few episodes before they are resolved and forgotten. The relationship between Dylan, Tyr and Beka is supposed to evolve into a Kirk-Bones-Spock sorta thing, except with no delusions that the trio are equal. And Dylan quits the High Guard - the thing he treasured most and expected to become a part of again. Have you noticed that we haven't seen him in uniform since mid-season?
> I could handle the transformation of Trance. Really, I could. But > if this is the next step in dumbing down the series, I guess I'll be > in for forty-five minutes of reading the newspaper instead of watching > the show while I run the VCR for my SO who's on the computer multi- > tasking.
I never abandon shows mid-season, and this is the only one ever to tempt me as such. And why I'm giving up on seeing any more than the occasional episode from now on.
> I wonder if there's any point to letting TPTB (Does anyone other than > Kevin Sorbo matter now?) know that many science fiction fans really > can handle the concept of characters who disagree with each other > about how best to accomplish their goals. I guess the Magog world > ship was the first step; create a threat so big that it stifles any > disagreement over short-term goals.
As Donna pointed out, all the producers who disagreed with Sorbo (including series creator Robert H. Wolfe) have been fired. They were incredibly nice ones, too - they took fan praise and criticism very well through the first season.
> I suppose it only matters if the audience they lose is larger than the > new audience the changes are supposed to bring in.
Not necessarily - it seems that they're trying to keep the old Hercules audience in their seats by making the show more like Hercules. This may work, but the result has been the loss of the more discerning SF fan.
> Is there any hope that it was only a temporary aberration?
Not as long as Kevin's still around. And the show has been renewed through the fourth season, which means a LOT in syndication as we know from HL experiences.
Mark
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Good grief, that line of thought is so depressing. I remember when the show first premiered, and I got to read the official Andromeda-related web sites that were published. Has anyone ever taken a look at the All Systems University? This website was first published (in complete form) about two weeks before the show premiered -- and the level of detail in it is absolutely astounding. I was so excited about Andromeda then, and although I was a bit let-down by the pilot episodes, I was still most definitely interested.
Then came the second season premiere, which revolved around killing as much of the enemy as possible and Blowing Shit Up. I had hopes that the new urgency of the Andromeda's mission -- with the impending arrival of the Evil Magog Worldship -- would put a more interesting perspective on Hunt's mission to restore the Commonwealth. But instead, what do we get? Only ONE SINGLE EPISODE that actually addresses Hunt's mission to revive the Commonwealth. (Well, maybe two if you count Charlemagne Bolivar's offer to join Hunt's alliance, but that's not quite the same.)
I remember watching "Last Call at the Broken Hammer" and being rather shocked at the level of violence that that show displayed. I wrote it off at the time as a once-off action-adventure show that was badly written and produced. But instead, it became the herald of things to come, and every week the heroes get to Blow Shit Up� and so on.
I'm just about sick of it. Excuse me while I go watch a rerun of "Babylon 5" -- a QUALITY science-fiction show that knows how to do a story arc.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
As series premieres went, I *loved* the Andromeda opener. I especially loved seeing Andromeda at full crew and operating under proper military conditions. Too bad that lasted only 20 minutes.
But the point was that I was expecting Dylan and his crew to eventually get *back* to something like that, as the original intent was. I fully expected the crew to mature into a real team, and at some point they'd become the "senior staff" of a much larger crew as the Commonwealth grew and graduates came out of the academy. But nooooo. They're going to keep tooling around in a ship meant for 4000, leaving the whole idea of getting things better behind.
They're even leaving the show's near-legendary technology behind. In the last epsiode, they attack some giant space monster with anti-protons; when that doesn't work, they come up with the ingenious idea of hitting it with ANTI-MATTER instead! Wow! And never mind that every other line in that epsiode was about Dylan and how cool he was. Abysmal.
Yes, return and watch Babylon 5. And revel in the irony that a show like 24, which is nothing BUT continuity, gets renewed on that very basis.
Here's another of my rants. Spoiler's for this weekend's epsiode, where Dylan and all those unimportant people who are also on the ship go to rescue a shipyard full of imprisonned High Guard ships:
> Well, the Commonwealth isn't completely built. Getting 50 planets is > just the first step. And there is still the small matter of the Magog.
Strangely enough, they barely mention the Magog & their worldship after "Ourobouros". They'll deal with it, but I'm willing to bet that it won't be nearly as urgent as it was in the first half of the season.
> I don't see how the new Commonwealth is suppose to surivive against > the Nietzcheans and the Magog when they don't have an organize > military. Getting some real ships should help the gaping hole of > that.
Like I said, they took care of that. They have some sort of High Guard academy going, and now they have ships to put the graduates in. Dylan is still free to raom around in an under-crewed ship without having to worry about the Commonwealth anymore.
> I hope that it isn't going to be Hercules in Space with Dylan > going around just helpin people. It should be centered around the > Commonwealth.
Alas, it shall not be. In future epsiodes we're going to hear about the Commonwealth and on occasion meet one of its ships, but Dylan won't be a part of it very often.
> and out. I read that article about Dylan getting away from the > Commonwealth but I really hope that doesn't happen. I'm sure he'll > still go out helping people but the goal should still be a stable and > peaceful Universe through the Commonwealth, like it has been so far.
Nope.
I see a stable and peaceful Commonwealth getting along just fine, while Herc and his posse continue around the zillions of other planets on unrelated (and incresingly hokey) adventures galore. They'll run into the Commonwealth every once in a while, but for the most part they won't even acknowldge 'em anymore. One day the gang will take care of the Magog, another they'll take care of the SOTA. More unrelated (and incresingly hokey) adventures to follow.
We can only hope that one of these days the Commonwealth will get pissed off that there's a rogue ship out there with a tiny crew, that doesn't want to join the regular Commonwealth military and all the wonders Dylan once wanted to have back. So they go out and blow 'em up.
Mark
[ May 02, 2002, 19:31: Message edited by: Mark Nguyen ]
Posted by Kosh (Member # 167) on :
According to Seth Howard, a employee of Tribune, Mr. Sorbo is often missquoted and most of the stroy lines will remain a part of the show. Sorbo fans around the net say he "doesn't interview well", and not to pay much attention to what comes out in his interviews.
From last seasons finale on, the "gratuitous body count" has been huge on Drom, along with what the Slipstreamers are calling LOA's, for "Looks of Admiration" directed at Dylan. They are even keeping track of them now. "Belly of the Beast" had enough LOA's to make a person ill, but at the same time, the F/X were improved, at least as far as the "beast" was concerned. The Maru, on the other hand, looked worse then it has since the first days of the series. I don't know where they are going with the show, but so far, it looks like it will be just as Sorbo has said. Dump the story lines, and just go help people, much like Hercules.
I watched some Babylon-5 tapes last night.
[ May 03, 2002, 10:12: Message edited by: Kosh ]
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
I'm still enjoying Andromeda, but it is very obvious that this season has taken on a more action-orientated theme and put much more focus on Dylan Hunt. I don't think this is dooming the series since the other cast members are still getting some good development and attention.
I think the relationships among the characters are developing pretty well. I especially like how Rommie and Harper have been growing closer since the "Widening Gyre." I think this stood out very well in "Bunker Hill," "Ouroboros," and "Belly of the Beast." I like that we're seeing more hints of affection between Beka and Tyr, but I like the way it was illustrated in "Belly of the Beast" (dancing at the end) rather than in "Dylan Lost in Space" (Beka fawning over Tyr).
I like that there has been a continuity in the Harper/Tyr relationship through this season. Tyr and Harper seemed to be getting along fine after "The Widening Gyre," but it's been rough since Harper almost killed him in "All Too Human." Some of that animosity was very apparent in "Belly of the Beast." Nice to see that Harper was willing to attack Tyr rather than shy away from Tyr's hand as he had previously.
I like how Beka has been portrayed this season. I like that she's continuing to be a strong presence and is accepting Dylan's "master plan." I think that this portrayal works best when it is running contrary to Tyr's skepticism. This is why I don't "Belly of the Beast" worked too well. This is not the point in the series when Tyr should be showing any strong signs of appreciating Dylan and what he's trying to do. This attitude change seems to be part of the aftermath from RHW's departure. I think that Beka and Tyr are probably the most guilty of putting Dylan on a pedestal. I can understand Beka to an extent since she and Dylan are trusting each other more and more. But it does undermine the indepedence of her character to worship him. And Tyr doing this is extremely against what has made his character so great since the start.
When it comes to Trance, I have a love/hate opinion on her after "Ouroboros." On the one hand, she definitely has a bigger aura of mysteriousness about her now. Some substantial tidbits about her and her nature have been dropped, but it's been working since it just adds to it. On the other hand, I think that doing a complete one-eighty on her was a cheap way of developing the character quickly. I think the explanation and the switching all worked in "Ouroboros," but there's been a stagnation in furthering Trance in her new form. All that's really been done is that she's gone from a happy kid with a dark side to a pessimistic mature adult. Trance is a good character, but she needs a better focus.
I'm still utterly in awe of Lexa Doig. I hate the blue hair, but I still love Rommie. I like that she's been getting a lot of screentime and has gotten some good development. She seems to be interacting with the crew on a more personal level this season. Hell, she and Tyr shared a "personal moment" in "Lava and Rockets." I think "All Too Human" was an excellent episode for the parts that gave Rommie lots to do.
Anyway, since it's late and more thoughts are starting to ramble now, I'll conclude. I like Andromeda and don't mind the orientation towards more action right now. The saintifying of Dylan and making his character infallible is what's probably hurting the series the most at the moment. If the rest of the ensemble starts getting shafted too much, it'll definitely take a landslide. However, I think Andromeda is still trying to find it creative footing since the driving force behind it is gone. I definitely want to see how this season concludes and how the following one goes.
Posted by Kosh (Member # 167) on :
quote: I like how Beka has been portrayed this season. I like that she's continuing to be a strong presence and is accepting Dylan's "master plan." I think that this portrayal works best when it is running contrary to Tyr's skepticism. This is why I don't "Belly of the Beast" worked too well.
They are making the turn around at high speed, and in some instances, don't seem to know which way to go with Tyr. This past weekends ep showed that. Stentz and Miller wrote it, two of their best remaining writers, and even they had him talking out of character, and then commenting to himself about it.
quote: On the other hand, I think that doing a complete one-eighty on her was a cheap way of developing the character quickly. I think the explanation and the switching all worked in "Ouroboros," but there's been a stagnation in furthering Trance in her new form.
They could not wait for RHW's timetable, where Trance would have been Trancformed in the fourth season. Now, as you say, they have come to a complete stop with her character.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
I was only able to catch parts of this week's epsiode, and while it seems to focus on Tyr instead of Dylan (yay!) and continue an important storyline (huzzah!) it also seems to bring it to a conclusion to be soon forgotten (boo!) against a bunch of super-advanced bad guys who pop out of nowhere without much explanation (yuck!).
That, and for some reason the bad guys this week seem to want to rip off Star Wars E2, at least in the visual sense. Look! Early-model stormtroopahs and ships that look like the E2 star destroyers! What WILL they think of next?
And the Conspicuous Metal Catwalk (tm) makes its third consecutive appearance on some non-Andromeda ship. Go figger.
Mark
Posted by Vice-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
Well the show can always end up like the current season of Buffy and show lots of nudity.
Posted by Kosh (Member # 167) on :
I missed only one episode this season, after thinking about dropping the show, I kept going. I liked the last two eps, so I have some hope for it at least.
Posted by Brown_supahero (Member # 83) on :
Honestly, I think Andromeda has better story lines than Enterprise.
Enterprise is not fun to watch when blazed out.
Everybody needs to smoke weed more.
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
Yes.
In fact, I suggest you find the finest BC Bud that you can, and smoke up until you can't walk. Right now. Away from your computer. Possibly on a railway track.
Posted by Ultra Magnus Pym (Member # 239) on :
He just needs to be on the railroad tracks, period. So whatever helps him there, the better.
![[Cool]](cool.gif)