I was thinking, after reminiscing on the motion pictures "Akira", "Ghost In The Shell" and "Princess Mononoke", has anyone noticed that they, and others like them, feel really long?
No, seriously, why do they? I realize this is highly subjective, but when I compare these movies to, say, the Star Wars movies, LOTR, The Abyss:SE or 2001, these other movies feel like they're just flashing by when viewed.
Not that they're bad, I like them a lot, that's why I have them on DVD, but it feels like there's something about them that really takes time for the brain to chew through. Is it something cultural? Everytime I sat through one of those mentioned anime's for the first time, it felt like four hours a piece, like I've been looking at it the whole evening. I didn't think about it until my gf made the lenght comment after we watched "Mononoke" last saturday (her first time, my fourth).
Is it something with the plots and how they typically unfold in anime? Somehow these movies feel as long as Lawrence of Arabia or Gone With The Wind, don't even get me started on that first Gundam movie.
They're great, AND they feel long. Now why? Be as detailed or simple as you like.
[ September 17, 2002, 01:53: Message edited by: Nimpim ]
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
2001 never flashed by. It crawled along, inch by bloody inch, dragging me behind with it's chain.
And LOTR was hardly "Wow, it's over already". Okay, it was, but not due to being short.
Posted by Nimpim (Member # 205) on :
And that's exactly what I'm getting at. LOTR was almost three hours long, or more, and I ate it like an icecream. Ghost in the shell is 85 minutes and to me it felt like what I'd thought LOTR would feel like.
Anyone else? Yes, you sir!
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I am not a good person to ask, as I have as yet never been able to watch an anime film undistracted. (My last attempt, to watch Metropolis, was interrupted by a game of Red Alert II that sprung up in the middle of it.)
However, I thought Fellowship of the Ring was long. I really liked it, and may even fork over the cash for the even longer DVD version. But I was definitely aware of each minute of it.
Posted by E. Cartman (Member # 256) on :
I dunno. Maybe it has to do with the mind being occupied and/or distracted to a greater extent. Depends on the absorptionfactor, I guess. A movie either immerses you in its story and setting, or it doesn't.
I sat through LOTR as if it had been a quick lunch, despite its three-hour running time, while 2001, long-winded and frequently stuck at snail's pace, felt like a five course dinner with dessert -- both of which weren't enjoyable.
Posted by Nimpim (Member # 205) on :
Any more answers from manga/anime-viewers?
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
Nimpim: I suspect it is largely to do with non-American film-culture/dramatic standards. Not every culture has MTV and Schwarzenegger and all the ramifications therewith. American pop-filmmakers seem to feel the need to fill each and every second with dramatic and high-pitched plot, and I think some otherwise good films suffer for it. I also think it works sometimes (see Fight Club). Also American audiences are often looking for that fast-paced action. Even the venerable Simon can't sit still through Metropolis because he needs more stimulation (like a game like Red Alert provides), so he missed out on a truly spectacular and stunning visual climax.
So yeah, a cultural thing. I don't know if you've watched much Kurosawa (Seven Samurai, Rashomon, Yojimbo, etc.), but if you have you'll notice the same pacing at work. Actually I find many movies produced outside of the US for non-US markets (anime and otherwise) aren't gunning along at Hollywood's usual breakneck clip. I think this is a good thing. I like that Akira rambles a bit and takes its time establishing the characters before the $hiznap really hits the fan. It makes the high-action scenes that much more exhilarating. The banality of life comes screeching into this bizarre series of preposterous events on superconducting ceramic tires and makes the action of the story really pop!
Posted by Da_bang80 (Member # 528) on :
My sisters real big on anime, I'll ask her and get back to you...
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I disagree, a bit. Surely, pixel for pixel, the Japanese produce the most intensely stimulating entertainment on Earth? This is the culture that gave us that Seizure Robots cartoon, after all. My experience with Metropolis had more to do with my friend I not being in the movie mood, really, but more in the destroy each other in mortal combat mood.
Posted by Free ThoughtCrime America (Member # 480) on :
quote: but if you have you'll notice the same pacing at work. Actually I find many movies produced outside of the US for non-US markets (anime and otherwise) aren't gunning along at Hollywood's usual breakneck clip.
I don't agree. Sure, there are plenty of films where the pace is slow and deliberate outside of the US...but you also have cinema like "Hard Boiled" or "Brotherhood of the Wolf", which was directly inspired by the Shaw Brothers Kung Fu dynasty.
Some of the "fastest" movies I've ever seen have come from Nippon, and this is not a new phenomenon. (A recent one that springs to mind is "Battle Royale", which is bar none one of the most violent movies I've ever seen)...The Zatoichi films were mostly shot in the sixties, but every one of them really smokes...(Plus, Zatoichi has probably killed an entire village of baddies by the end of some of those...)
Further back into the fifties, you had the original samurai films, which in my opinion zip along quite nicely too. "Sword of Doom" is a good example.
The French have some quicksilver in a few of their films, too. "La Femme Nikita" is foremost in my brain, but there have been others.
Anyway...The entire world is afflicted with speed demon plotting at times. It's a feature of reality.
Posted by Nimpim (Member # 205) on :
The "La Femme" bit is from the american series. And I think "Nikita" is very lengthy as well, and good. Never bothered to see the Bridget Fonda version.
Balaam, yes I have seen many Kurosawa movies (preferably with Mifune in them), they also crawl along. I think that's what made "Magnificent seven" so good, that they adopted the format and character development, it's a gem among westerns, IMO. I want to see more Kurosawa, though.
What's this "Sword of Doom", Thoughtcriminal?
I totally agree japanese "cartoon" can be very violent and graphical, that's what makes it so great, there's the whole spectra. Haven't seen a really good comedy though, anyone know of a fun Anime comedy?
Even so, movies like "Patlabor I" or "Fist of the North Star" (NOT the US-version), with their fast-paced action and, in the latter case, gore , still feel nice and long.
About Kurosawa, I've only seen "Ran" once, I was a little kid and although it had action, I thought it'd never end.
Has anyone seen that "Jin-Roh - The Wolf Brigade"? Is it good? Apparently it's from Mamoru Oshii (Ghost in the shell, Akira). Is it standing up to his earlier works?
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
Oh, yeah, I mean there are plenty of exceptions. I'm just speaking in general terms. I realized later that it may have sounded like I was condemning American film pacing. I want to say plainly that this is not the case. Many of my favorite films have that very same rapid-fire pacing. I was just trying to point out that anime, in general, tends to follow a different plot structure than your traditional American adventure movie, and that this was perhaps partly due to the fact that these films are not necessarily produced with American audiences in mind. Honestly how many of you saw the adaptation of Osamu Tezuka's comic Metropolis in the theatres? Did you know there was a limited theatrical release here? I did happen to catch it at one of the shitty art-house theatres in San Jose, but let's just say they weren't running commercials every eight minutes on VH1. I mean we'll buy the DVDs and to a lesser extent videos, but it's really something of a niche market here, and perhaps we should be thankful for that because we get to see films that aren't made for us. I enjoy that. I find it refreshing. Metropolis is a weird freakin' movie and it never would have been released here as-is. As a joke a friend and I were recasting it as a Hollywood blockbuster, and after some time we just had to agree that their mentality would utterly fucking ruin it. It's different. It's foreign. It's great.
Posted by Free ThoughtCrime America (Member # 480) on :
You're right about the "La femme" thing. It's been awhile since I've seen it.
"Sword of Doom" is just another Nipponese samurai movie, where the ronin comes to town, kills a bunch of foolish lesser samurai, and is inevitably forced by honor to willingly go into a trap he cannot possibly escape from. The last twenty minutes of the film is this badass cutting down about five million samurai who are invading his dojo.
It's pretty typical of the genre, but it's also one of those movies that essentially goes from one duel to the next, with interludes of conversation thrown inbetween to justify why the next fight is going to happen.
It should be listed on www.imdb.com , if you care to check it out.
Posted by Free ThoughtCrime America (Member # 480) on :
Many Americans can't get the idea out of their heads that an animated picture can be anything more than Bugs Bunny or Mickey Mouse.
A lot of it is Disney's fault, for reasons I won't go into here, but it's also due to Americans not willing to be challenged in any way by the movies they watch. (Insert brutal critique of American culture here.)
We're lucky they even show Kung Fu movies at our cinema houses, frankly. Anime is doomed in the same way comics are doomed. "It's just for KIDS!" is the running theme.
Posted by Nimpim (Member # 205) on :
I believe you've forgotten The Simpsons' "Comicbook Guy", thankyouverymuch!
Sword of Doom would fall into the "Eastern Western" category, then, like the hundreds of action-porn movies after Bruce Lee had died. Like porn, the action is more important than the plot. Actually "kung-Fu/Karate"-movies are constructed exactly like porn.
I think it's safe to say that this is not exactly Kurosawa-caliber, then, huh?
Posted by Free ThoughtCrime America (Member # 480) on :
Different styles, mostly. The fact that there is more violence doesn't mean that it's not a good movie. Kurosawa directed epics, which is a different kind of film.
I threw it out out there because it serves as a counter example, really.
(It came out in 1966, too, not the fifties. Oops.)
Posted by Nimpim (Member # 205) on :
I heard a reference to "Sword of Doom" in the "Design stage" area on the "Blade"-DVD. The stunt coordinator used "SoD" as inspiration for the "Blade"-swordfighting.
It really seems to be a popular movie, I just thought it was a low-budget movie when you described it, like "Bruce Li fights again!!" or "Ninja Mission IV".
It DID have Mifune-San in it, I certainly must see this one!
![[Smile]](smile.gif)