quote: The most significant and most difficult change has to do with our amazing writers. Both Matt and Joe, and Zack and Ash, are moving on to new projects. All four of these incredible writers have been with the show from the beginning and while they will be working on new shows, you never know when they may come back to write an episode (or two, or three!). They are not just talented writers, but have become part of our family and we wish them well. They will be missed.
But as some move on, others are moving in. We are privileged to welcome Larry and Paul Barber aboard the Andromeda team. Larry and Paul were Co-Producers on the X-Files for its first season and then went on to develop movies for Francis Coppola, Oliver Stone, Michael Mann, John Singleton, and Jon Peters. They came back to TV to work on shows such as Profiler, Seven Days and most recently worked on Witchblade. Before that, they worked on 21 Jumpstreet, The Commish, and Roar. They will make a welcome addition to the Andromeda family. Larry and Paul have been SF fans since they can remember and can�t wait to start telling stories in our universe.
We also welcome Naomi Janzen. Naomi penned �For Whom the Bell Tolls� this season, and has also written for La Femme Nikita, 7th Heaven, and The Crow. She is a welcome addition to our team.
Ashley and Zack were the last of the good writers. Matt and Joe could have been canned long ago, and it would have been an improvement.
I did not see "For Whom The Bell Tolls" so I wont comment on Mrs Janzen. I did like "The Commish" although, I think it had more to do with the actor, Chicles, or something like that, then with the writing. Roar, was a good idea that didn't quite get time to develope. I liked some of the stuf they did, but who knows how it would have gone.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Y'know, there must be several phases to hating Andromeda. Like many, I went from a loyal show follower, to be generally uncomfortable in the second season, and eventually total revulsion and abandonment by the beginning of the third. Now, when news like this hits, I've gone from "Oh, my God, how much worse can it get?!" to "Ha! Lookit how much worse will it get now!" to "Ehh, who gives a flying leap?".
I made my peace with Andromeda's demise months ago. News like this is just putting too many nails in the show's overstuffed, carelessly-made coffin.
Mark
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
That's hilarious... because just a couple of days ago someone in one of the Trek threads reminded me that Zack & Ash were still working for Andromeda and were good writers.
I gave up hope on the show long ago as well, but it still annoys me to no end to see such a great concept go down the drain.
I occasionally lurked on the SlipstreamWeb boards, and had heard a few tidbits that made me pay attention to online news enough to see if there were any new episodes I might want to watch. (None have come even close yet.)
The departure of Z&A makes me lose all hope. If I'm not mistaken, there's not a single writer left who's been there from the beginning, right?
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
As far as I can tell, none of the original writers are still with Andromeda (watch somebody prove me wrong, though).
I will admit, though, that I have also pretty much given up on Andromeda at this point. While I will remain hopeful that the quality will improve, I haven't had any desire to tune in very much this season. The only two complete episodes I've seen this season were not very good, in my opinion (nor were the summaries of the other episodes I have read).
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Yes, it's true -- there are no writers who were working on the show from the beginning (or at least from Season One) remaining on the staff.
Which basically means it's an entirely different show now.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Not that I'm making a point or anything but...
...like TNG?
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam: ...like TNG?
You sure? Berman was running things there pretty much from the beginning -- even though Roddenberry was the creator and overall guy-in-charge, Berman was always going to be his successor and therefore was involved from early on.
At least, that's how I've always perceived it, anyway.
"Andromeda" is a different case, though. For that show, the creator specifically got canned so that they could change the basic format and style of the show. Writers since then have all abandoned ship for greener pastures, either voluntarily or otherwise.
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
Andromeda's situation is pretty different from The Next Generation's. If you compare first season TNG to seventh season TNG, you'll pretty much find the same show. The characters have grown and the stories have improved, but overall the themes of TNG stayed pretty much the same.
The same cannot be said for Andromeda, however. The show this season is quite different from the show in the first season. Unlike Babylon 5, a lot of the reasons for these changes in the structure of the show's themes were not really addressed in the show. All we know is suddenly *poof* there's the 50 initial signatories.
In the real world, we know the reason for this is as MinutiaeMan has stated. There's an excessive turnover in the writing staff, the man who pretty much shaped the show was forcibly removed, and the remaining executives changing formats from sci-fi to action and from heavy continuity to episodic will be a good thing.
Posted by Kosh (Member # 167) on :
Strangly enough, Ethlie Ann Vare, who was fired after taking up for RHW, has either been commishened, or permitted, to write the second Andromeda novel. She has also written for one of the other Tribune shows since being ejected from Andromeda.
As far as I know, no one who was writing for the first season is still employeed.
The changes in the show were mandate from the top, and Wolfe trie to comply, but the brass was never satisfied. Someone who is more in te know then I have ever been, told me that it is standard Tribune practice to hire good people to get the show off the ground, then dump them to lower the level of money they have to pay, and get cheaper people to write and run the show. Looking at Tribune's history, it is very easy to believe.
Robert Ingles was hired to replace Wolfe. He did have some credits to his name, but the biggest was a stint with "Twin Peaks", a show that lasted all of two years. He brought some of the Twin Peaks quality to Andromeda, in the first episode of the third seaosn, but it failed miserably. I've watched bits and pieces of episodes since then, but that's it.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
quote:Looking at Tribune's history, it is very easy to believe.
Examples?
Posted by Brown_supahero (Member # 83) on :
Hey, even though Andromeda is dorky. The writing on the show is 100 times better than Enterprise.
Posted by Snay (Member # 411) on :
So, how's that crack you're smoking?
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Oh man... I'm no big fan of "Enterprise," but at least their stories have some hint of intelligent writing. I tried to watch the "Andromeda" season premiere back in September, and simply left halfway through out of frustration and disgust. There was simply no logic, no interest, nothing but big explosions and pointless plot twists.
"Enterprise" certainly isn't anything extraordinary, but I'll take lame plots over no plot any day.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan:
quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam: ...like TNG?
You sure? Berman was running things there pretty much from the beginning -- even though Roddenberry was the creator and overall guy-in-charge, Berman was always going to be his successor and therefore was involved from early on.
Apart from Berman though, all the initial lot (Justman, Trome, Snodgrass) left, and the recognisable faces (Pillar, Moore etc) didn't start until a fair way into the show. Did anyone on the first or second season writing staff remain?
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Y'know, I really dunno why I feel continually obligated to spread news about the decline of this show. But a while back, someone wondered why the people who run Slipstreamweb.com still bother to run their website as they have done rather faithfully through Andromeda's wasting away to nothing that'd interest a sci-fi fan.
quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam: Apart from Berman though, all the initial lot (Justman, Trome, Snodgrass) left, and the recognisable faces (Pillar, Moore etc) didn't start until a fair way into the show. Did anyone on the first or second season writing staff remain?
Ah, I stand corrected.
However, in TNG's case I think that there was still a strong sense of the creator's intent for the series, and the characters and the setting were maintained to a great degree. It was mainly the method of storywriting that was changed. Also, Roddenberry still had some say in the show at that point (as far as I'm aware, anyway) even if it was just supervisory.
In Andromeda's case, they specifically canned Robert Hewitt Wolfe (or pushed him out, whatever) so that they could fuck the series up as much as they wanted.
I'm not surprised that Christian and Lisa decided to shut down that message board. I don't know much at all about the internal community, but if they're not getting anything out of it, then I don't blame them one bit.
Posted by Kosh (Member # 167) on :
quote: . But a while back, someone wondered why the people who run Slipstreamweb.com still bother to run their website
Still trying to figure that one out.
On a side note, I saw Andromeda this weekend, for the first time in weeks, and much to my surprise it was pretty good. Even though they used a lot of clips, for once it worked, and worked well. Another Ashley Miller/Zack Stenzt episode.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Actually, I watched that one too -- "The Unconquerable Man"? My sister's been a fan of the show throughout (she doesn't see anything wrong with the show overall, I think), and she told me about this one.
Though the temporal acrobatics were a bit silly (especially how so many things were the same in both timelines), the basic concept is a good one, and the story itself was excellent.
Was it just me, or was Rhade not played by Steve Bacic this time around? I wasn't paying attention to the opening credits.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
I stumbled on the latter half, and filled it in with a fan synopsis. Yes, it's Steve Bacic. Also, it was Yesterday's Enterprise.
Rahde makes a better Nitzechean than Tyr ever will. Enormous muscles and Shakespearean talent never beat the conviction of character that Rhade had IMO, and continued to have in all the episodes he was in after he died.
Mark
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: Rahde makes a better Nitzechean than Tyr ever will. Enormous muscles and Shakespearean talent never beat the conviction of character that Rhade had IMO, and continued to have in all the episodes he was in after he died.
Obviously. Rhade killed Tyr outright, and all Tyr had to show for it was that little scar on Rhade's hand.
I think the great thing about it, though, is the fact that Rhade is a better Nietzschean -- that he represents the ideal that was lost when the Prides turned on each other after destroying the Commonwealth.
Yeah, there were a lot of similarities to "Yesterday's Enterprise." The interesting thing, though, was that whoever Trance's people were, they had enough control of the timeline to recognize and influence past events. That actually makes a bit of sense. Any later events aside, it doesn't exactly make sense that any Nietzschean with superior coordination and strength could be out-drawn by a "mere" Human like Dylan Hunt.
Posted by Kosh (Member # 167) on :
Ashley and Zack really did a number on this one. They not only told a good story, made a decent clip show and had a better actor at the helm of Andromeda, they made the god awful episode, "Oroborus" come out better. I missed the begining, but I can get it this weekend. It will be the first time since the first season that I have looked forward to watching the show.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Yes. Among things, they resolved the "I'm proud of you" mystery line of Rhade's that we were always debating - and they did it well. And yes, they made "Ourobouros" make sense too.
Too bad Rhade is still dead... But they did leave an obvious opening. Rhade killed himself, and he had to do SOMETHING with his body. Or did he even kill himself? A fatal blast tends to leave a hole in the uniform, and there was nothing apparent when he took off the tunic. Maybe he stunned himself, then dropped himself into an escape capsule and ejected it, leaving himself to re-enter the show later on...
Pfft. Like THAT would ever happen, and like THAT would make me watch this otherwise still putrifying show. Too late, Tribune! Too late!
Mark
Posted by Kosh (Member # 167) on :
I tried to watch this weeks offering, but it was bck to sucking air, and I didn't finish it.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
That's okay. Apparently, Tyr's off the show now too.
Mark
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Well well... I had to dig around a little bit to find something reasonably official, but here it is:
Ding, dong, the show is dead! Do you think they'll bury the corpse before it starts to rot? Or will they continue to molest it for a few more years?
Posted by Kosh (Member # 167) on :
I just e-mailed Uni Sallis Lillus, who I know from Slipstream/Ex Isle. I get the idea from what he said that he really isn't interested in doing more then the 4 he's obligated to do, but she will probably know more.
(edit) Opps, Lil is in London, so it may be a while before I hear from her.(/edit)
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