LOL! That cat licking Wolverine's blades! LOL! Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
The theatrical standee was a bitch to build.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
What preview? Something newer than the second trailer?
Posted by Proteus (Member # 212) on :
I am looking forward to Xmen 2 more then the Matrix and T3 combined.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Hmmmm... I'm same/same between Matrix 2 and X-Men 2. I think they will both be stunning. I'm definitely excited about T3, but I just don't have the high hopes for it that I do for the other 2. I think they're really going to have to stretch the story line to make it work and I'm not quite sure I believe they can do it.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Personally I have very low expectations for T3, I don't think I'll even bother going to see it in the Cinema. This attitude is largely down to the absence of Cameron, Furlong and Hamilton (from what I've heard anyway). That and a female Terminator made entirely out of energy...
The Matrix sequels and X2 on the other hand... Posted by Ultra Magnus (Member # 239) on :
People are looking forward to Terminator 3? Whoa.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Yes... I noticed the lack of Linda Hamilton and James Cameron as director... that kind of sent me into low expectation mode. She's made of pure energy? See... that's not right.
Tell me this... if SkyNet was supposedly destroyed in the first movie... and the good guys have been successful in all these movies... how do the machines in the future keep making badder ass terminators? And why don't they keep sending them back to the time period of the first movie to keep trying to kill helpless, wussy Sarah Conner?
Posted by Proteus (Member # 212) on :
Sorry, forgot it was still trendy to not like popular franchises from more then 5 years ago.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I couldn't give a monkey's poking stick how trendy it is or is not. The fact is that some franchises are fine as they are and in the wrong hands, any further instalments can only serve to diminish what has already been done. Now in the case of the Terminator movies I just don't think that anyone besides James Cameron can do a third instalment justice, what is more likely is that T3 will be a soulless, self-referential action fest with eye popping effects and a plot about as thick as your average amoeba. I'm not saying it shouldn't have been made since I'm sure that it will do fine at the box office and the kids will love it, what I am saying is that I'd be very surprised if this turns out to be anything other than a re-tooled knockoff of the first two movies.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Edward Furlong is playing the Crow in The Crow Part IV!!
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
*Arnold, looking down busted elevator shaft* "She'll be baak..."
They even use Arnold's clich�s for laughs in the trailer already, they've shown a bit of their angle.
Just like "Predator II", domesticating one of the most terrible, frightening and well-respected monsters of all cinema.
First movie, takes one look at 250 pound indian merc holding machete, next scene, cleaning hair and flesh off skull from said indian. Tag line: "There's something out there waiting for us, and it ain't no man."
Movie two, gets slapped around by L.A cop in a dark slaughter house (that he supposedly claimed as base of ops already), then flees from apartment containing old woman watching Jeopardy. Tag line: "Yeah, fuck you too, pussy face! (ref. to shape of Assailant's oral cavity)"
"Alien"? Gave me nightmares. "Alien Resurrection"? Tear down all they've built up over the years, replacing it with a ten foot moaning baby.
Next alien movie, I swear they will get the aliens to ally themselves with humans because Species 8472 is coming and they're not bringing flowers.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
We should consider ourselves lucky, they almost made an Alien vs. Predator movie! I've read the script and it really makes you appreciate Alien Resurrection.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Tell me this... if SkyNet was supposedly destroyed in the first movie... and the good guys have been successful in all these movies... how do the machines in the future keep making badder ass terminators?
They don't. All those terminators were sent from a single point in the future to different points in the past. Skynet sends three (or however many movies they make) terminators back just before it's shut down. Not that that makes any temporal sense, of course, but no movie does.
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
Proof positive that Omega isn't really a Trekkie, if he knows the meaning of the words "temporal sense." 8)
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Well I didn't think it would be a matter of Skynet sending back Terminators at different times... the fact that there was no SKYNET to BEGIN WITH because of the events in T2 - there shouldn't be any more Terminators. But then that means that there should be either a Terminator or an Agent Doggett Terminator in T2 - Then it ALSO means that there shouldn't be a Terminator in the first movie. Which means no one gets sent back into the past. That means no John Conner.
But that doesn't happen. So it means there is always going to be a SkyNet - simply because John Conner exists.
Somehow SkyNet will still exist. I always thought it might have something to do with his arm that gets left in the door in T2. It doesn't get melted down.
I hate temporal mechanics.
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
*pats him on the back* There, there. Look, there's a nebula over there, maybe there's some coffee in there. Go take a look. 8)
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I remember having a about a two hour discussion about the various timelines in the Terminator movies with two of my co workers. We drew it out on a white board and everything. It's basically not possible the things in the first movie happened the way they did. Or at the very least, it's not possible that what we're seeing is the "first time around" for the timeline.
Wasn't this thread about the X-Men sequel... Who got it off topic? Oh yah... that was me... sorry Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
IIRC, they supposedly disposed of the extra arm off-camera. And it's correct that what we saw in the first movie was an altered timeline. Skynet would have existed anyway, just later. John Connor (or at least A John Connor) would ALSO have existed anyway, just later. Little has actually changed, except that Connor has future knowledge now.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Prescience, my friend. The stough of gods, or so Leto said.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by Omega: IIRC, they supposedly disposed of the extra arm off-camera. And it's correct that what we saw in the first movie was an altered timeline. Skynet would have existed anyway, just later. John Connor (or at least A John Connor) would ALSO have existed anyway, just later. Little has actually changed, except that Connor has future knowledge now.
After reading the cut scene that was supposed to go at the begining of the movie (the future war sequence was supposed to be much longer and far more elaborate) I got the distinct impression that Conner knew exactly what was going to happen, given his reaction to seeing the non-active T-800s.
Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
What non-active T-800? I don't remember any deleted scene that had nonactive T-800s.
I too tried to figure out how the Terminator timeline works, and it does you a headache to figure out.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
The T-800 that they reprogram, the Arnie in T2.
The following scene is taken from the end of what was to be an extended Future War sequence at the beginning of the movie, it was cut after the second draft because of the potential costs in time, money and effort. It was also a narrative tangent that would have really slowed the movie down and could have extended the total running time to nearly 3 hours.
However, snippets of action from this draft survive in the final film and so is largely consistent with what was ultimately presented on screen.
The scene takes place shortly after Connor has been told of Skynet's destruction in Colorado and Kyle has just been sent back in time.
quote: FUENTES: Now what happens to Reese? I mean, what did happen?
Connor's gaze seems far away from this time and place.
CONNOR: He accomplishes his mission and in doing so, he dies.
FUENTES: He is a good soldier.
Connor solemnly nods.
CONNOR: Yes. He's also my father.
FUENTES: Madre de Dios!
Fuentes stares at Connor in amazement. He has just been given a glimpse into his leader's private Hell. Connor turns from the smoking chamber. He seems suddenly ten years older as his features drain of strength, shoulders sagging.
Fuentes shouts an order in Spanish to a waiting Sapper team.
FUENTES:(in Spanish) Sapper team. Set your charges. Let's blow this place back to Hell.
Connor shakes his head no. Mustering his strength.
CONNOR: Not yet. There's one more thing we have to do.
TIGHT ON MASSIVE DOORS OF STEEL, covered with a thin sheet of ice. Locking bolts slam back. Ice shatters like glass as the doors begin to open. We are in--
INT. COLD STORAGE FACILITY
Connor walks into the darkness, followed by a few technicians. They are in a vault-like cold-storage room. Hanging in steel racks from ceiling tracks are hundreds of what appear to be men. They are in rows of ten. Within each row, each of the bodies are absolutely identical.
Connor signals the techs to remain by the door and walks out among the dark bodies. They are UNACTIVATED TERMINATORS. He stops at a row in which they are identical to the terminator which was sent back to kill Sarah (the Arnold model).
He walks to the end of the row. There is one empty rack. He faces the terminator in the next rack. It's eyes are closed. John seams distant as he studies that face. Fuentes enters the chamber, pushing past the technicians. Calls for his leader in the darkness.
FUENTES: John?...John?...
TIGHT ON CONNOR, his face pensive as Fuentes calls his name. Fuentes voice slowly dissolves to ANOTHER VOICE. A woman's. Echoing as though from a great distance....
CUT TO:
That scene was meant to dissolve into the one with John sat on his motorbike in his foster parent's garage.
As you can see, he defiantly was meant to have foreknowledge of the events of T2 since there's no other way that he'd recognise the Model-101. Which means that the whole story arc is one of predestiny, not alternate timelines. So while the future is not set, the fate the characters made for themselves did, is and will be leading to Judgement Day.
The real question for me is just how much foreknoledge, if any did Skynet itself have of it's origins and ultimate fate?
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Actually, that could still be interpreted as fitting into divergent timelines. In the timeline after T2, Skynet must still exist, and must still send two terminators back to destroy John Connor, who must ultimately be defeated. If any of these things don't happen, it creates a paradox. So in the timeline as it should still exist, Connor still has to send the Terminator back in time.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
What are you saying about predestiny? That the Connor boy in T2 - knew what was going to happen!?!?!?! It didn't seem like that to me. He only knew as much as his mother told him - which he considered rambling lies of a lunatic.
The Future Connor knows what will happen cause he sends the Terminator back - he's remembering what happened. BUT if he knew what he does - does not end Sky-net (i.e. he's still fighting a war) then why did he not send the Arnie-T back? Why not just leave it not happen - he would then cease to exist, and we'd have no movie. Is that a good or a bad thing? Linda Hamilton might have ended up playing Captain Janeway! As was rumoured back in 1994! Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
What about that "scene" where the T-800 is rolling on a conveyor belt, gets welded in the head and scanned for anomalies, then sent to the meatpress for its arnie-flesh?
They always used snippets of this scene in all the documentaries about T2 at the time... I've heard they show the creation of T-1000 as well...
But it wasn't on the Director's Cut.
Posted by The Vorlon (Member # 52) on :
That scene was from the teaser trailer for T2, and I don't think it was ever supposed to be in the movie. It WAS a very cool teaser, seeing the T-800 built from start to finish... It's on the DVD.
As for the T-1000 scene, I've never heard of that one.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
How'd they do the T-1000? Pouring mercury-looking substance into a mould of Agent Doggett Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Hmmm ok... so what *really* happens in the future is that the rebels smash SkyNet, SkyNet sends a the Arnie T v.1 back to kill Sarah and the Doggett T back to kill John at about the same time. The rebels send Reese back to protect Sarah and the reprogrammed Arnie T v.2 back to protect John, again, at about the same time.
Ok... I can buy all that. Though, it would have meant that the Arnie T models and the Dogget T models where in use by the machines at the same time OR that after they sent the Arnie T back, the timeline was altered because of the components it left behind, and they suddenly had greater capabilities as well as the humanoid T's.
So... where does that leave room for *another* arnie T and this pure energy hottie T?
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Depends on the plot of the movie. If the terminators come back in time, then Skynet just sent three instead of two. Again, however many movies they make.
And IIRC, the T-1000 was a prototype.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
But in that cut scene, Connor says "There's one more thing we have to do." I suppose he could have meant reprogram and send back 2 terminators. But "one more thing" suggests he was just talking about just the Arnie T they sent back in T2.
And wouldn't Connor also remember the events of T3 at that point?
Interestingly, the trailer for T3 says that the T-X is designed to kill other cybernatic devices, implying that it's actually after the new Arnie T and not Connor. There also appear to be a significant number of "future" scenes. Perhaps the future events in this movie take place after the future events in the first two.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Rather than the frequently used Hunter-Killer hovercopter, I'd like to see those bigass Robot tanks from the first movie's future sequence, a robot torso with caterpillar legs and several turrets. The one that killed Reese's cute sister in arms?
Has anyone ever done a 3d-model or CGI-art of that robot? Or do any of you guys have a picture of it, from the T1-DVD SE?
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
And wouldn't Connor also remember the events of T3 at that point?
Again, depends on exactly which alternate timeline loop we were seeing (or not seeing) in that scene. It's all convoluted.
Check that site out.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
My head hurts... but i think i understood most of that....
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Found this fansite, lots of images of units and vehichles from all the movies, including the Hunter/Killer Tank. No story spoilers, but the pics of the units themselves could be seen as spoilers.
quote:Originally posted by Omega: And IIRC, the T-1000 was a prototype.
Indeed and while Kyle said in T1 that the 800 Series was new, they were obviously not brand new since he had operational knowledge of them.
Also there were supposed to be Cyborg Terminators in the T2 battle sequences alongside the endoskeletons. I presume that the Terminator seen in Kyle's dream sequence was also an 800 series and not one of those rubber-skinned ones he mentioned.
Perhaps Skynet did intend to attack Connor at every possible point in time but only had time to send those two (or three) before it was destroyed. The script did say that the vault at the temporal displacement complex had HUNDREDS of Terminators on ice.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
It also said that they were all of the "Arnold model".
Isn't that a bit daft? If I have my Terminator tech right, T-800 refers to the skeleton and base design, and the 101 series means that they've had Arnie's skin poured on top, right?
Doesn't designed hundreds of Arnie shaped Infiltaror Terminator's sound really stupid? The whole point of them is for them to pass as human. Surely the human resistance would eventually realise that if an Austrian bodybuilder turned up, it would be best to blow the fucker away?
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
No there were hundreds of T-800s, there were only ten (minus one) "Arnold" models. If you read it again it says that the racks were arranged in rows of ten and that only the Terminators within each row look the same.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
So, then, presumably the one that was missing is the one SkyNet sent back in the first movie. The second one Connor looked at is the one he reprogrammed and sent back in the second movie.
I'll still be curious to find out where the T 101 from the third movie comes from, who sent him, and why.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Since Corona's down, I can't access the rumors any more. Do we know that this Arnold character is, in fact, a T-800 terminator, and not the human model?
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I just watched the trailer again to be sure, and yes, it's an Arnie Terminator. There is a scene where pieces of his face are coming off. Also, he gets thrown through a building and survives... so... I doubt he's human Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
I've wondered about a couple of things ever since I saw T2.
In the first movie, the war was fought mainly with big, airborne and mobile Hunter-Killer units, with the T800:s as slick infiltrators and refined assassins.
In T2 and also in the trailer for T3, the T800:s are more or less cannon fodder, pumped out by the hundreds, without flesh or armor, just bare parts.
Is this a smart move by SkyNet? Sending Rolls-Royces without protection into war? Is it cost-effective? Especially since, in the future flashforward in T2, when we see the adult John Connor, SkyNet is supposed to be losing the war. Isn't prudence and damage control a smarter move at that point?
Also, the first T800 we see, stomping on the human skull, has synthetic eyeglobes installed. The others don't, they glow red. Is this a coincedence?
Another thing; were the fighting T800's CGI or were they really walking robots? Or puppeteered through strings? They don't move as fluidly as a human would, suggesting some sort of mockup.
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
CGI wasn't always as impressive as it was today! No, those were animatronic.
Also, if Skynet is losing and desperate enough to try fucking with the timeline, why shouldn't it start using T-800 units, until now kept in reserve and used sparingly, as cannon fodder?
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
How do we know Skynet was losing? Or that anyone was winning for that matter? Where is this information coming from? That was an amusing webpage on the various terminator models btw, but where does this all come from?
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Well, see, there are these movies...
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
Gee, I must have fell asleep for the part of the movie when the Terminator sat down and gave a lecture on about the construction details and design history of the T-700 through T (million?) Due to that slow Austrian speech pattern, I must have only managed to stay awake for the morning lecture on plasma weapons, my mistake.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
If Reese said that the Arnie model was new... and that there only appeared to be 10 minus 1 models in that unseen T2 footage... how would they know about that new model. Only 1 had been activated at that point - and that was to go back and track Sarah Conner/Reese.
Andrew
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Mucus: "I must have fell asleep for the part of the movie when the Terminator sat down and gave a lecture on about the construction details and design history of the T-700 through T (million?)"
That info comes from the rebel fighters, not contemporary time. They probably have an R&D crew that knows much about the enemy.
But I think most of that "Expanded Universe"-stuff from that page is taken from the Terminator role playing game, I found some site dedicated to that too, whilst searching for Hunter-Killer Tank info.
Hey, did you know a RBG-80 laser cannon does 10d10 damage and weighs 80 pounds? Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Mucus, you must have fallen asleep through half the movie since Kyle spends a good deal of time recounting how Skynet was defeated and how much he knows about the T-800s.
AndrewR, the T-800s are new, not necessarily the Arnold model. In-fact "Model-101" would seam to indicate that it's one of the first. Be sure that you're not confusing model for production series, Reese was aware of the new 800 series with the human flesh since he encountered at least one infiltrator in the future. The Arnold model is just that, a model of the 800 series that looks an Austrian body builder. Just like the model-102 looks like an Italian American boxer and the 103 looks like a short man from Brussels.
Also those were just the Terminators that were being stored at the Temporal Displacement Complex, it is a big planet and I'm sure Skynet had lots of Cyborg storage facilities all over the place.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Here's my question: how can there be a T3? I mean, correct me if I'm wrong here, but I thought the reason that Skynet existed in the first place was because a contemporary company found the remains of the first Terminator, and the tech they based off of that eventually resulted in Skynet. Since the tech was destroyed (except for part of Arnie's arm in the factory) at the end of T2 ... please, fill in the blanks for me Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Well I suppose we'll just have to wait and see.
I will say this however; I've always thought that the biggest plot hole of T2 is that supposedly all the records and research material of the entire project is kept within just that one building. They must have had off-site backups, probably ones that Dyson wasn't aware of. Enough materials maybe to continue the work he started. Remember that Dyson was "just" the head researcher, a scientist and not a company executive so he might not have been in the loop about what else Cyberdyne were up to with his work.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Yeah, Skynet existed when it did because of the technology brought back in time. But Skynet would have existed anyway, just later. Read the site I posted.
Posted by Epoch (Member # 136) on :
Well they have a money maker on their hands and so a 3rd movie just has to be made. The original ending for T2 was a narrative diary of Sarah as she watched John and his daughter play in the park. She says that 1997 came and went with no judgement day and that the future looks bright.
Posted by leuckinc (Member # 729) on :
Yea, but Sarah was put in the nut house remember? I bet she just dreamed it all up.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
She says that 1997 came and went with no judgement day and that the future looks bright.
Ah, but she also said that he was spending his time in Congress fighting the Skynet funding bill, IIRC. Skynet tech seems to be an inevitable evolution of current tech, as far as the movies go.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nim: But I think most of that "Expanded Universe"-stuff from that page is taken from the Terminator role playing game, I found some site dedicated to that too, whilst searching for Hunter-Killer Tank info.
Terminator RPG? Are we talking Warhammer 40,000 style role playing game here, complete with little painted models or are we talking about grown men dressing up like the terminator and doing their best Arnie impersonations in an Internet chat room? ...actually, I don't know which one would be more fun to watch and make fun of anymore
Oh yeah, judging by the movie trailer for T3, either that Congress stuff happens much later, or it doesn't happen at all anymore. (assuming I'm identifying the right actor as John Conner) IIRC, the actor doesn't look all that old...hmmm, imdb.com says he's 18.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
There were also a series of Terminator graphic novels, I believe. Some of the info might have come from those.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Yes, the whole franchise is spawned from the original comic, or so I've heard.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)