Hi there I'm new here and this looks like a good place to start.I've recently reawakened my interest in Sci Fi,even filmed some background footage for a film.My main interest besides Startrek,is the early days of Sci Fi in books and movies.So any one out there who likes the old ground breaking stuff feel free to jump right in.Later on if anyone is interested I'll post a link to the film that we are making.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Hello, welcome to Flare. About "jump right in", if you want to start a discussion you're going to have to specify your thread topics a little more.
Why, "The day the earth stood still" is a very good old sci-fi movie, with funny, cheap fx by today's standards. The same can be said about "Them!", but that movie starred James Arness, who to me can never be anything else than Zebulon Macahan, so that movie always makes me think about how the West was won, although by the time of "Them!", it was good and won already.
See, no guidance at all, just plain horseshit. It's great to hear of your enthusiasm, though, especially in such an abundant topic as Old Sci-Fi. I look forward to seeing more of that, we can use the variation.
YOUR WEAPONS HAVE NO EFFECT ON ME Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
DALEKS LOOK LIKE PEPPER POTS!!!!!
Posted by Mountain Man (Member # 1114) on :
You seem to have gotten the idea without any prompting from me.What I was getting at was the stories and movies you all like best,and the ones that have made the most impact on the development of Sci Fi.My favorite I guess is H.G.Wells.War of the Worlds has never really been filmed the way it should be.I think that doing it just the way it was written,same time period and all,without any attempt to explain any inconsistancy with todays world.When I was a small kid a UHF channel aired "The Shape Of Things To Come" that was probably the first movie that ever really caught my interest.Then "Forbidden Planet".Lets hear about Oldy but Goodies that you think of when the word ground breaking is used.Books to,and as many as you care to list.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
TWIKKI FROM BUCK ROGERS HAS A PENIS FOR A HEAD!
Posted by Mountain Man (Member # 1114) on :
And I thought I was the only one that noticed that. Actually I was thinking more along the lines of the earlier movies and the pre Star Trek TV series,but the lesser known or actually just less remembered also count.As far as old stories go here are a couple that you might get a kick out of.First "the Damned Thing"by Ambrose Bierce. http://www.blackmask.com/books12c/damnedthingdex.htm Then "The Red One"by Jack London. http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/London/Writings/RedOne/redone.html Each of these is an early Sci Fi that has always been misslabeled as Horror.They are short,The Damned thing very short and well worth reading.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
Anything by Verne, of course. The genre pretty much owes its existence to him.
Posted by Mountain Man (Member # 1114) on :
Verne was a great Writer.A while back AMC had the original film version of Mysterious Island.I'm still not sure which version was from Vernes writtings both were great but completely different.H.G.Wells Martians are probably the best of all the alien beings though.Vernes stories were more about people,and his characters had a bit more life to them.Wells characters were good but the English of his day were sort of stilted compared to the europeans.Still you could feel more sympathy for Wells people.Comparing the two is a good exercise.
Posted by knivesout (Member # 1118) on :
'The Island of Dr. Moreau' by Wells may well have been the first ever story to warn us of the horrors of biotech (what Wells called 'vivisection', but I think I can make the stretch), if he hadn't been beaten to it by the 'maid who made a monster', Mary Shelley. Frankenstein is a book that is more often labelled as horror, but can also be thought of, at least chronologically, as a starting point for SF. Even HP Lovecraft's horrific vision had an SF tinge to it, which is most obvious in stories like 'At the mountains of madness', one of my favourites. I think Edgar Allan Poe also wrote certain stories - there was one about a journey in a balloon?- which qualify as proto-SF. BTW, yes, I'm new here. this seemed like a good topic to start on, and greetings all.
Posted by Mountain Man (Member # 1114) on :
Well now at last someone who has really studied the old ones. Frankenstein is most certainly SCI FI. As for the good Dr. Moreau that was one wacked out dude. Chimera seem to appear right before a civilization falls and hang around for centuries as a warning to later ones. Recombinant DNA? makes you wonder don't it.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Viva la revoluci�n de biotecnolog�a!
Posted by Mountain Man (Member # 1114) on :
Go get 'em Sol Mutants Unite. Death to the Norms.
Posted by knivesout (Member # 1118) on :
Has anyone read the stories of Eric Frank Russell? Shoot-em-up Golden Age Sf at its finest!
Posted by Mountain Man (Member # 1114) on :
Eric Frank Russell. The name sounds familiar. But I may be thinking of an Illustrator with a similar name. I'll look him up sounds like the kind of stories I'd like. Short stories I hope.
Posted by kmart (Member # 1092) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mountain Man: When I was a small kid a UHF channel aired "The Shape Of Things To Come" that was probably the first movie that ever really caught my interest.Then "Forbidden Planet".Lets hear about Oldy but Goodies that you think of when the word ground breaking is used.Books to,and as many as you care to list.
Are you sure you don't mean THINGS TO COME? That thing you mention above, THE SHAPE OF THINGS TO COME, was an unwatchably bad movie from 1980 (saw it on a double bill with TMP and laughed till I wept -- there are lunar exteriors shot OUTDOORS in daylight in Canada that are just ludicrous), trying to cash in on the Wells name, but not really owing much (besides character names) to the 30s film.
I'd say DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL and THE THING are still very solid older sf films. I don't think the fx in DAY have dated at all, and they serve the story, which is what really makes it all work. FORBIDDEN PLANET has that terrible 50s color film look and 'comic relief' characters that probably inspired Cochrane in FIRST CONTACT, but other than that it has always been enjoyable to watch.
In the 60s, there's FIVE MILLION YEARS TO EARTH (also known as QUATERMASS & THE PIT), which is a serious intelligent SF film that mixes religious aspects in quite ingenious ways (warning: the movie has an effects sequence so bad in it that it may take you out of the film; I saw it at a revival house and the whole place was rocking with laughter, which did NOT help the movie at all.)
I think COLOSSUS THE FORBIN PROJECT is also very good.
As for older SF novels ... Van Vogt's VOYAGE OF THE SPACE BEAGLE and WAR AGAINST THE RULL were good pulp era reading, as was a lot of Heinlein's 'juvenile novels' like SPACE CADET.
When I finally got through with it, I found Clarke's CHILDHOOD'S END to be a captivating read, and always wish somebody'd get their act together and do a kickass miniseries of it.
Those are just a few off the top of my head.
Posted by Mountain Man (Member # 1114) on :
By Jove sir you are correct. "Things to come".Raymond Massey. Starts with an air raid then war that has survivors digging through the the ruble. Remember the king with his WW1 helmet and animal skins. And the Wings over the world group.Never saw that 80's movie,but I can imagine how bad it blew. Your other picks are all familiar to me as well. You have great taste in SCI FI.
Posted by Mountain Man (Member # 1114) on :
Dr. Morbius of the Belerophon party. What a great role. Day the Earth stood Still what can I say perfection. Space Beagle is said to have inspired Gene Roddenberry. The rest you have given really good choices so this thread is really showing promise.
Posted by knivesout (Member # 1118) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mountain Man: Eric Frank Russell. The name sounds familiar. But I may be thinking of an Illustrator with a similar name. I'll look him up sounds like the kind of stories I'd like. Short stories I hope.
Short stories indeed, fear not. Very nice stuff, I think you shld like them. Oddly, although his writng is very much in line with the US SF of the time, Russell was in fact a Brit.
Posted by Mountain Man (Member # 1114) on :
Ever read 'The Earth Abides' by George R. Stewart? Well worth reading, in fact one of my first Sci Fi books. Our schools Libraries were suprizingly well stocked with Sci Fi.
Posted by Brian Whisenhunt (Member # 1095) on :
How about "Village of the Damned". No controversy in its time I personally think that any of the Gordon Dickson "Dorsai" novels would be good film material. Also Ken Chalker's "Well-World" novels would make for some cool special effects. For modern writers, Gregory Benford, Greg Bear, and David Brin actually put some SCI in sci-fi. Verne could very well be the true father of sci-fi, if you exclude mythology and Da Vinci! And if you want the beginning of scifi-lm.....well, there's always Fritz Lang's "Metropolis"
And for those who think I am crazy, I'll have you know that the voices in my head confirm that I am completely sane.
Posted by Mountain Man (Member # 1114) on :
I saw Metropolis on the same channel that showed the Wells film. It was in bad shape but as long as it was it was probably close to the original full lenght version.
Posted by Treknophyle (Member # 509) on :
At the risk of showing bias for 'late-golden age & early modern' writers, here are my nominees: - Starship Troopers - Heinlein. NOT the abortion of a movie. The original book. It's never been done - and is one of the best sfi-fi novels around. - Ringworld - Niven. If I saw that on the big screen, I'd be willing to die a happy man. And the aliens! - Stranger in a Strange Land - Heinlein. 'Nuff said. Easily one of the top 3 sci-fi novels of all time - and with visuals and message to match. Gateway - Pohl. Mystery! Terror! Adventure! Psychoanalysis! Steel Beach - Varley. Incredible visuals and message.
Posted by Dan Stack (Member # 516) on :
Just to echo the comments on Jules Verne made at the start of the thread - if at all possible, avoid the cheap, default translations - the ones you find at book stores for a couple of dollars. Often the translators would censor his work and other times they would cut huge portions of his books and have blatant mistakes.
The Naval Institute Press translation of 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea is fantastic. I just finished the Wesleyan Univeristy Press translation of The Mighty Orinoco which was a lot of fun - almost like a more refined Indiana Jones.
A good guideline is if the book makes a big deal about its translation then that's a good sign.
Posted by kmart (Member # 1092) on :
quote:Originally posted by Treknophyle: - Ringworld - Niven. If I saw that on the big screen, I'd be willing to die a happy man. And the aliens!
They came pretty close back in 2001. Phil Tippett, the stop motion guy from EMPIRE and ROBO and countless others, who transitioned into digital work in the last decade, was going to make his directorial debut with RINGWORLD. I talked with Jim Bloom at Tippett studio about it, hoping to do a 'making of' on it. But around that time, James Cameron once again expressed interest in RINGWORLD, and of course, since Post-TITANIC Cameron only seems to 'express interest' in feature films now rather than make them (or at best execproducing, a la SOLARIS), that stopped development and I haven't heard of anything being done with RINGWORLD since.
Niven's RINGWORLD would be awesome, but like Clarkes' CHILDHOOD'S END, it would be hard to pack it into a less than 3 hr movie, and (like Clarke's RAMA, which is also still hovering but not underway as a feature -- Morgan Freeman has had David Fincher attached to the project going back to 1998 or so) so I imagine what we'll wind up with for RINGWORLD in a few years is yet another 6 hr miniseries with terrible production values and laughable fx on SciFiChannel.
It'll be a shame, but I doubt that doing it as a big feature would be economically viable, considering that 'serious' sf seems more likely to fly like a rock box-office-wise.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I think I'd rather have Cameron helping to make high concept (if terribly flawed) films like Solaris than anything he's put out on his own in a long time.
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
You know, of course, that the Matrix is a big screen mini series...... Wouldn't Ringworld be able to be done the same way??? Along with countless other books that a 2 to 2.5 hour, or even 3 hour, movie wouldn't do to make....
Posted by kmart (Member # 1092) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ritten: You know, of course, that the Matrix is a big screen mini series...... Wouldn't Ringworld be able to be done the same way??? Along with countless other books that a 2 to 2.5 hour, or even 3 hour, movie wouldn't do to make....
I think it would be an incredibly hard sell to afford doing RINGWORLD as a series of films. Same as RAMA, there is no overwhelming box office draw aspect to it ... and also, like RAMA, there is no super-compelling character to land a really big star that might offset the risk.
RAMA has Morgan Freeman, but really needs Brad Pitt to be considered bankable (which may be why they rewrote the part of Jimmy, the hang glider character, to be much bigger, to attract some younger box office talent), but the Ringworld itself is the main focus of Niven's story.
And I have to say, if MATRIX really WAS always considered part of a bigger story, why did it change so drastically photographically from the first film to the second.
Even with the same crew, dp, and directors, RELOADED suffered from a visual style that seemed very cheap and trendy, esp in comparison to the first film. You'd think if they were really trying to make it all seem to be part of a single piece, they'd retain the look and the strengths of the first film (stick with photo-real basis for bullettime instead of these lame textures on cg models, for example.)
Posted by kmart (Member # 1092) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: I think I'd rather have Cameron helping to make high concept (if terribly flawed) films like Solaris than anything he's put out on his own in a long time.
No argument there ... I actually liked the recent SOLARIS, and wished it had been longer. I don't think I've liked any of Cameron's own films since T2 (still can't even get through TITANIC, have seen maybe 40 minutes tops.)
There was the hint of a longer debate about the nature of the planet in SOLARIS that I'd like to have seen, and the commentary mentions a much longer docking scene, which I wish had been included as an extra ... I think SOLARIS has the absolute BEST computer generated ship stuff ever (as in, the first time I can recall seeing a sustained sequence that didn't suffer from overreliance on CG, and actually convinced me), and I could watch that stuff apart from the movie and be entertained.
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
I personally think that any of the Gordon Dickson "Dorsai" novels would be good film material. Also Ken Chalker's