I just saw it and am still thinking on it. I was'nt blon away like I was in the second movie...a lot of things I thought would get resolved, dont. ... and some things I was hoping for didint happen.
Still....as the end of the trilogy, it's very well done, although it raises quite a few questions all of it's own.
Despite reviews (that I've waited untill now to read), I found the acting on Reeves' part to be very well done (and fitting his character).
**********And now for the SPOILERS*********
I was suprised that Morpheous and the good sheep in Zion dont get an explanation of what Neo did to save them all.
I was equally suprised that the issue of thousands (if not millions) of humans were still used as batteries by the machines at the end.
And no resoultion of the whole "eternal cloud of darkness" over the world thing. So at the end I'm left with some big questions: 1.) Are all the humans used as batteries connected to the Matrix? If so, were they all turned into Agent Smiths untill Neo does his thing? 2.) assuming all human batteries are in the matrix, does that mean they die in parts I-II when killed by trinity and co? If they're all humans, how did the Upgrade Agents take over them in the chase scene in Reloaded? 3.) What was up with the Council? From the Councilor's talk with Neo, I expected some majo revelation about them and the human/ machine relationship.
Your thoughts?
Posted by Da_bang80 (Member # 528) on :
It blew my mind. I like the soundtrack. The APU's were cool. I don't wanna spoil it in any way, so I'll say that it rocked.
It does raise a few questions, seems to have been left open for another movie.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
The kid saved the whole day: him and that seargent in the mech. Probably the best part (and acting) of the movie for me.
I agree that the soundtrack is by far the best of the trilogy (excepting the Crystal Method theme from part I).
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
I haven't seen it yet as all shows are sold out for weeks at our local multiplex.
But I can wait, as I didn't enjoy Reloaded. I just hope Revolutions doesn't suck too much. My tactic: go in with low expectations. That way you are less likely to be disappointed.
Posted by aneurysm (Member # 906) on :
As for some of the questions you raise this is he impression I got from the film...
The architect said that people will be released right at the end in his conversation with the oracle. I assume it wouldnt be too hard for the machines to create towers with solar power facilities on them, after all, if the logos can go high enough to go above the burned skies I'm sure the machines would find a way.
Cojo, I'm not sure what you mean with 2), your babbling a bit there.
The sargeant in the APU was called Mifune and got a laugh out of him calling the kid a "pod born pencil neck".
I thought Neo was reduced in role in this film. in the second film it was all about him. In this film he seemed nothing more than a cast character.
How empty was Trinity's death? Ship died when she crashed the ship and not when she was making a big sacrifice or anything. Waste.
I personally thought the soundtrack in this film was well below reloaded and even the first film was better. revolutions was, well, unispiring in the least, and I'm trying to be generous.
And I really cannot see there NOT being a fourth film to tie up some endings, or at least possibly another Animatrix style project.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Hated it. HATED.
Bad drama, bad writing. Not nearly all of the questions deliberately brought about by the second film were answered or even touched upon in the third. Like poster above said, Trinity's death had no dramatic significance attached to it. The ending was pretty much a cop-out IMO. All action and no explanation. Yuck.
-MMoM Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by aneurysm:
Cojo, I'm not sure what you mean with 2), your babbling a bit there.
I mean this: Are all the human "batteries" active participants in the Matrix? Are all the security guards that get killed by Trinity and Neo when they rescue Morpheus in the first film killed in the real world? Or are they like Agents (constructs created by the Matrix as a kind of immune system)?
I caught the architect's line about "all those that wish to leave" being allowed, but that would imply they are going to blow the Matrix's cover and reveal that the world the batteries know is false. I see a LOT of blue pills being taken if the Matrix looks as idyllic as at Revolutions' end compared with the grime and hardship of rebuilding Zion.
If machines could have developed alternate power sources why keep humans around at all? It makes more sense that the machines are using the humans as processors than that the machines need humans as a bio-electric power source. I mean, there are still oceans: they could have created hydroelectric or nuclear power sourses. Posted by Paladin181 (Member # 833) on :
The Matrix Online, the next matrix game coming out, deals with life after Revolutions in the matrix. Players get to decide which side they'll fight for, Zionists or Machines. So the matrix remains active, only it seems people become aware of its falacy. ((I found this out before the film released when the games developer leaked it, so it kind of spoiled the ending for me))
I'm not sure how I feel about the movie, better then 2 not as good as 1, yet better than 1. CAPTAIN Milfune ((I believed named after Tishiro Milfune, the Japanese actor from Seven Samurai ect..) and the APU's made the film. Yet so much seems like goobly-gook and more obscure sureal whatnot.
The part that bothers me the most is the Trainstation and the aptly named Trainman; can you say useless??
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Paladin181: The Matrix Online, the next matrix game coming out, deals with life after Revolutions in the matrix. Players get to decide which side they'll fight for, Zionists or Machines.
So the Machines think it's all a Zionist consparicy?
Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :
Saw Revolutions today and wasn't all that impressed. Reloaded was already a bit disappointing but Revolutions did even less for me. I can't help but wish they would've just left it with the original. The first movie stood alone quite well and all the sequals have done is weaken it.
Posted by Bond, James Bond (Member # 1127) on :
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jason Abbadon:
I was equally suprised that the issue of thousands (if not millions) of humans were still used as batteries by the machines at the end. __________________________________________________
Sorry if this has already been answered but, at the end the Architect and the Oracle act almost as if they have just ended a long chess match and since she won she sets the terms.
She said all humans who choose to leave can. No mention is made of how they are informed of this. Do they just sit there until contacted by people from Zion? Are they going to blow the Matrix cover story? If so, why bother with the simulation?
Zion seems unable to sustain large quantities of refugees given it's limited space and survival on the surface is impossible so I don't see how they could free more then a few people at a time until something can be done about the atmosphere. But then you've got the same pesky machine problem.
Plus, a lot of people probably would choose to remain in the Matrix instead of face the harsh reality. __________________________________________________
So at the end I'm left with some big questions: 1.) Are all the humans used as batteries connected to the Matrix? If so, were they all turned into Agent Smiths untill Neo does his thing? __________________________________________________
Yes and yes. Remember the scene of all the Smith's detonating in streams of light as it spread out throughout the city? And the weird behavior of the scrolling code displaying the Matrix? Smith took over everyone in the Matrix. __________________________________________________
2.) assuming all human batteries are in the matrix, does that mean they die in parts I-II when killed by trinity and co? __________________________________________________
At first I thought they did, which kind of ticked me off at Morpheus and company for their calous treatment of innocent civilians (at the end of Reloaded Neo kills about 10,000 people in the cars he flung in the air in his wake). I based this on Morpheus's statement that if you die in the Matrix, you die in the real world because the mind just shuts down. But I bet that only applies to people outside the machine's control.
The Machines have total medical functional control the bodies of the people still under their control, so I don't see why it wouldn't be possible just to restart them in a new "avatar" inside the Matrix. They get a new life, hence the bright light when you die, and whalla, reincarnation. __________________________________________________
If they're all humans, how did the Upgrade Agents take over them in the chase scene in Reloaded? __________________________________________________
They're just avatars, digital recreations of the people in the pods, so an Agent could just hack into them like their software. __________________________________________________
3.) What was up with the Council? From the Councilor's talk with Neo, I expected some majo revelation about them and the human/ machine relationship. __________________________________________________
That really disappointed me. I was expecting some sort of revelation discovered by Neo that the humans actually couldn't destroy the machines because they needed them to survive and so they would have to form a more equal symbiotic relationship. But no dice.
Many of the big questions posed at the end of Reloaded just went unanswered or were given unsatisfactory answers.
Why could Neo stop the Sentinels outside the Matrix? I'm expecting the answer to be something profound like Zion and the "real world" is all just another layer in the Matrix. What do we get? A half-assed explanation that the One's powers extend into both the real world and the Matrix. What the Hell? So, magic is possible? Why not just make it frickin' Lord of the Rings then? Neo the Grey uses his powers of sorcery. Weak.
And when exactly did the Merovingian have a chance to catch Neo in between the real world and the Matrix? Yet Morpheus and Trinity got out fine, even though they were all togather. Lame. Half-assed again.
Trainman, the Train Station to nowhere, the chics playing "Tune in Tokyo", and the showdown with the Merovingian and his legion of S&M henchman (I kept wanting to say "Bring out the Gimp) were contrived and pointless to the overall story. And Persephone's role is reduced to one line and monstrous cleavage (not that I'm complaining).
Trinity's death was unnescessary and completely pointless. She's the Tasha Yar of the Matrix.
The fight between Neo and Smith was dumb and lasted way too long. They barely even did any of the cool martial arts we have come to expect. They basically just punched eachother in the air, in water, in buildings, underground.
The one, and I mean the one, redeeming factor was the battle for Zion.
Niobe is a friggin' badass, and I usually can't stand Jada Pinkett Smith (she gets a tad hyper and annoying around her husband). The piloting of the Hammer was one of my favorite parts even though it was very reminiscent of "Final Flight of the Osiris".
The guy who played Bane had Smith's mannerisms and inflections down to a science. Good job on his part. I wonder why Neo didn't use any of his nifty real world powers to fight him though? Plus, he actually learned martial arts in his mind, he has the memory of it, why didn't he use it to fight Bane? He's like the Karate Kid, he forgets all the skills in every movie and Mr. Miagi has to teach him new stuff each time.
Captain Mifune is a friggin' badass. The APU Corps was awesome.
They even gave Annoying Kid and Link's wife major roles in the battle.
Locke wasn't killed which makes us aggravated, very aggravated.
I'll be kind and give the movie a "B" because I'm in a good mood and I'm grading on a curve with Matrix and Reloaded which were both far superior. As a trilogy it's great, as a stand alone movie, Revolutions was really disappointing.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I liked when Captain Mifune called the kid a "Pod Puke".
...looks like most of Zion's inhabitnts are NOT taken from the Matrix: that's the only reason there is not more sel-outs like (cant recall the actor's name!) from the first film.
Gotta say, the fight scenesin Reloaded were FAR superior. Only the EXTREMELY brief scrap at "Merv"'s tablr was truly spectacular.
BTW, as per the other thread: The Black Cat is still my favorite character!
...and what the FUCK was with Oracle's little "I think we might see him again" line o' bullshit at the end? I'd have paid real cash if the little girl would have just told her "Shuuut up."
Posted by Paladin181 (Member # 833) on :
I think the oracle said that because the systemic anomely inherhent to the Matrix is still congruent with the modus operandi of the matrix, eirgo the 99% wilingness of the human conscience will be willing to accept the matrix on some subconscience level, but that 1% anomely is present in the code visa vie... therefore... in congruence with... I want a cookie...
I still believe that everyone in the matrix (save the programs) are humans. Neo's chaotic flight through town was a act of rage/passion so he probably cared little about who and what was hurt on the way to save Trinity. And all the other killings are done to save humanity, the old lesser of two evils mentality takes over. But I agree with Bond that the machines have controll over the humans and use them more like rechargable batteries than your average Duracel.
I'm not sure how the Matrix Online explains the release of peoples minds, I just knew the matrix would survive. Now I think the humans and machines have to enter an awkward peace since the humans want to be free and free others and the machines want batteries. So I would see a more symbiotic relationship now that one needs the other more. Of course this would have been nice to know if they had explained it in the movie... AND THUS CANON WOULD BE BORN!!! Oh well.
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
Just got in. That movie was utter shite.
Posted by leuckinc (Member # 729) on :
Not as good as the last 2, but still pretty good. Where were the Twins? And it also seamed like all the points maind in #2 were pointless, they had no effect on the #3. In fact Neo never told anybody that they live in Zion #6 did he? They all still believe that the war is just over 100 years old...
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Trinity's death was just fine.
The movie, less so.
But, I mean, it looked cool. Oh man. THEY FOUGHT IN THE AIR LIKE SUPERMAN VS ANOTHER SUPERMAN!!! And there were robots and some dudes were upside down! I was happy.
Posted by Bond, James Bond (Member # 1127) on :
Trinity's death will be fine when the episode "Yesterday's Nebudchadnezzar" airs and she is given a meaningful death and gives birth to a half human / half machine baby before being killed while trying to escape the Matrix, again.
Then said half machine baby will grow up to hate Morpheus and the circle of life continues.
Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :
I saw the spoilers that were advertised before the movie came out. Needless to say, they seemed to answer a lot of the questions laid out than the movie did, with a very clever twist ending that was believable (albeit with some missing parts).
As for the movie itself, the ending of the movie was quite..... soppy, and didn't give a good answer to a lot of the questions I was looking for.
Posted by Bond, James Bond (Member # 1127) on :
I saw it again tonight and I must admit that it benefits from a second viewing. I did enjoy it more this time around (might have to do with the fact that I wasn't surrounded by 200 other people insisting on crying out "There's Neo" when he first appears as if we didn't know who he is).
While I still prefer the first two installments by far, this one is catching up.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Neo Andreson Occupation: Boot Disk.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Finally saw it last night. Oy.
The overall feeling I got from it was that they had 45 minutes of story left to tell after Reloaded, so they made another 2 hour movie.
The dialouge was forced... "Who are you?" "I'm the Oracle." Geez... they did it better in the game. "You know me, but you may not recognize me." The events seems disjointed. The Mirovingian's appearance and Neo's being trapped in this new, unexplained level of existance were pointless. They just had to find a way to explain why Reloaded ended with Neo in a coma and they took the opportunity to make another religious metaphor.
The action was ok, but the club fight was part of a pointless scene, so I had a hard time getting into it.
I was dissatisfied with the fact that everyone immediately believes everything is fine even though noone knows anything about what happened, or likely ever will until visiting the Oracle again.
I might watch it again just to see if it gets any better. But it just didn't feel like it had the same flavor as the first two. In fact, it felt completely different.
Niobe was hot. Z was hot. Trin was hot. Persephone was hot. Oh... and I want to be Seriph when I grow up. Anyone know where I can get one of those cool jackets?
Posted by leuckinc (Member # 729) on :
Trin was the chick with teh shaved head?
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Trin = Trinity.
I don't mind a little wierdness... but bald girls don't do it for me.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Okay - I want to hear what YOU guys thought happened that destroyed Smith. I've heard about three different interpretations of what happened, and they're each pretty good.
I liked the film. It left a lot of the final fate of the Matrix open to interpretation, and I think that's the way they wanted to make it. Giving us a black and white ending to a movie that was at least trying to give us some depth of interpretation was better than laying everything out for us.
Plus, it was what it was meant to be - the end of a bigger film. Most of the development was in the second one, where the first had most of the exposition. Classic movie format, spread out over three movies instead of three acts. I think that that Matrix marathon we had a couple weeks ago really helped, as the Matrix Revolutions was really not meant to stand on its own, to the extent that other trilogy 3rd parters (like Jedi, Back to the Future III or Star Trek IV) were meant to. Like the programs in the Matrix, the film did what they were meant to do and nothing more. Bravo.
Mark
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
What destroyed Smith... well... it looked like the machine that had plugged Neo in gave him some kind of uber shock that killed him, which also killed the NeoSmith. Somehow that had a chain reaction that killed all the Smiths whilst somehow allowing the host programs to remain intact.
I find in interesting that when the Smiths exploded, it was white light and the shock itself was white. This made me think of the Architecht. Indeed, the machine voice that was talking to Neo sounded alot like the Architecht.
I'm thinking that the Neo's code was inserted into the Matrix as it was meant to be before, but it was inserted through Smith which destroyed him.
Posted by Bond, James Bond (Member # 1127) on :
I thought the big porcupine looking Source Robot was the Architect as well.
He said that he and Neo wouldn't meet again but he could have just meant his Matrix Avatar or, like the Oracle said, he could just be shortsighted and was wrong.
Interesting that the Source robot chose a cherubic face, almost like a baby or Buddha in appearance. Not that that really means anything but just an observation.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
It's also possible that this was a varaition of the same old cycle: the variation being that Neo chooses something other than "saving/ rebuilding Zion when at the Architect's, Smith continues to grow in power as the system tries to balance out Neo's power and, of course, this time the humans in Zion are saved by Neo's deal. And did you guys notice how bright and clean the Matrix was at the movie's end? It's grimey and old and overcast before but it's anew begining and possibly a new chance for peace at the end. I liked that.
Posted by Bond, James Bond (Member # 1127) on :
Did you notice that the little girl is responsible for regulating the rising and setting of the Sun and it's light intensity everyday? My old job.
The black cat while they were restarting the Matrix was a nice touch and good continuity with the Deja Vu scene from The Matrix.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Well, since deja vu in the Matrix is typically a result of something that they changed, I think what we saw was really just what the machines see from their POV. They basically rebooted the Matrix with a "discard previous changes", thus erasing the effects of Neo's fight with Smith. Presumably everyone taken over by Smith is back to normal too, and only the programs know something was different and remained where they were when things changed.
Y'know, you really have to think about whose fault this all is. Smith was obstensibly just a normal program at the start, and only started developing his powers when Neo jumped into him - whatever that was. Therefore, Neo's ultimate fate/death/whatever is his own doing, and unfortunately a whole mess of people had to die because of it. On the flipside, the result of the Matrix cycle being proken was a result of the conflict between him and Smith, so...
Mark
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: Therefore, Neo's ultimate fate/death/whatever is his own doing, and unfortunately a whole mess of people had to die because of it.
Man, what a role model! As things stand now, I'll be lucky to take a couple dozen people with me....
I'm so behind in preparations...
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
I saw the movie last night. I liked it, but maybe on a superficial, emotional level rather than on an intellecutal level. I thought it improved on the main problem of Reloaded, which was basically 2 hours of utterly pointless fight scenes with a few minutes of exposition at the end. I never thought they were really fighting for anything in Reloaded. In Reloaded, Neo fights with the crowd of Smiths for no reason and just flies off; they have this big highway chase after which Neo just flies in and grabs the Keymaker. More pointless fighting, the Keymaker dies, Neo opens the glowing door, and we finally get to the whole point of the movie, that little bit of exposition from the Architect. Everything up to that point was just running around. In this movie, everyone was fighting for survival and dying to save others, mostly in the real world. Perhaps it didn't answer all the questions of the second movie, but I felt a greater emotional connection with this one.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I thought the fight scene with the group o' Smiths was too long... I thought that in the theater the first time I saw it. I also thought the dance orgy was too long. BUt the rest of it felt like it had purpose to me. They were trying to get Neo to the source and had to do a bunch of stuff to accomplish that. It was a quest.
And the highway scene was just really, really cool.
It was in Rev. that I felt like nothing they did really added to anything. The real world parts did... definitely. But the bit with the Oracle and the freak club could've been done better, IMHO.
Posted by Bond, James Bond (Member # 1127) on :
The Freak Club sequence should have featured a showdown between Merv's ex-henchman Seraph and his new henchmen the Twins (with some help from Trinity and Morpheus of course). The way they left it we are left to believe the Twins were destroyed in the explosion in Reloaded but how would that kill them when they were shown to revert to ghost form? I really wanted to see them again.
Ditto all your points about Reloaded Aban Rune. It was a much more task driven tightly wound exciting movie. It was almost like a video game in a way... You must complete the given task within the alotted time. But the format works in Reloaded's case.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
OK I got back from seeing Revolutions...
can I just say... and I can't believe I'm saying it - but that movie was... SHIT! Absolute Shite!
I so loved the first movie - but the third movie has just made a mockery of everything the Matrix was.
The Animatrix as everyone here knows... I LOVED. It was only released at the cinemas in Australia in New Zealand for the length of 4 days... I saw it twice.
The second movie wasn't what I hoped for but was still exciting.
The third was just BAD.
I mean it had a few 'cool' momemnts - but overall it lacked everything that made the first movie special.
There was no need for any matrix sequals.
Andrew
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
I too was confused as to how the hell Neo actually destroyed Smith. I myself have two theories, one being the mentioned above, of the Machines zapping Smith once he had taken over Neo. However, there is a flaw in that theory. If Smith was taking over humans, humans which were still plugged into the Matrix and hence the machines, why couldn't they just zap him there?
Second, what had been said throughout the film. Neo and Smith are unbalanced equations, exact opposites. I think that joining Neo and Smith caused them to cancel each other out, which would in effect destroy Smith and Neo, meaning Neo is dead at the end of the film.
Other then that, the jury is still out on my opinion of the two sequels.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I thought Flak's review was pretty on-target.
Posted by Bond, James Bond (Member # 1127) on :
^^^ Dead on in that review. Interesting theory about the Machines "allowing" some of the more troublesome members of society to leave so they won't reveal the secrets to the more compliant population at large. I hadn't thought of them allowing the people to leave on purpose but making it look like their trying to stop them.
Few other tidbits, pardon me if they've been brought up before:
* When Seraph approaches the two henchmen at the S&M Clubs front door they say "he's wingless". Punishment by the Merovingian for leaving him perhaps (though you'd think the henchmen would know about it if it was)? A way of disguising himself? The idea of him being programmed as an Angel (or Archangel) in his past life is intriguing and fits in with Merv's other supernatural henchmen.
* The Architect is watching Neo in the interrogation room in "The Matrix". Just before Smith and the other Agents walk in you see the camera pan through a bank of TV screens and into the room.
* Mentioned this in the other topic but I'll point it out here also, when you see the Machine City of 01 from high up in the atmosphere the city follows a fractal pattern.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
So... let me make sure I understand this. There are a few chosen people that live apart from the rest of the world. They're waiting for The One to come save them and defeat the machines that hold the rest of the world in their grip. The One comes, but instead of defeating the machines as expected, he defeats Smith, an enemy within everyone in the world that nobody expected, and then (apparently) dies. Because of this, anyone in the Matrix who wishes to can leave and join the chosen few in Zion.
Could we possibly be any more needlessly messianic? Next thing you know, Neo will return to the Matrix with trumpetsound and tell them all that those who wish to leave may join him in the place he has prepared for them...
Posted by Bond, James Bond (Member # 1127) on :
Sure they could be more needlessly messianic, they could have Neo die with his arms held out like Jesus on the cross... oh wait, they did that too.
They did sort of beat you over the head with the Judeo-Christian parallels: The Holy TRINITY, Seraph(im) who was an angel with 4 faces (they tried to make it be like he's two-faced because he used to work for Merv but close enough), The Architect as God (Masonic beliefs refer to God as The Great Architect), Zion being the "Promised Land", the Resurrection, betrayal by a member of Jesus / Neo's own posse ala' Judas (Cypher), and many more that I can't remember off the top of my head.
Posted by Bond, James Bond (Member # 1127) on :
In relation to the point above, my primary complaint with "Revolutions" was that it altered the premise of the first two movies in regards to the supernatural.
In "The Matrix", it was stated that Deja Vu is a glitch in the Matrix that happens when they change something. It could be said that reincarnation is possible in the Matrix because Cypher was going to be put back in as someone else.
In "Reloaded" they take the idea even further. The Oracle can see the future not because she is some mystic, but because she is a program who was involved in the creation of the Matrix and has seen what happens over and over again, so she sort of knows what's going to happen but can still be surprised by minor changes in each repeat performance. She points out that ghosts, vampires, aliens, wherewolves, whatever are programs in the Matrix not doing what their supposed to do. Indeed, we later get to see some vampire and ghostlike henchmen of the Merovingian. And what is the Architec if not an allegory for God? The whole point is leading us to believe that all supernatural things are a creation of the Matrix. At the end of Reloaded Neo is able to use his powers in the real world somehow. This indicated to me based on the prior caviate in the movies of the supernatural being a result of programming in the Matrix, that Neo must have been trapped in another layer of the Matrix, indeed the Architect must have placed him there to keep him from saving the real Zion. Or, even more Machiavellian, there never was a "real" world, it's all just layer upon layer of the Matrix, with no hope of escape.
Which brings us to "Revolutions". In the beginning, we have Neo trapped between the real world and the Matrix. OK, so far so good, that's what I expected based on the cliffhanger. Then we learn it was the Merovingian who trapped him there and not the Architect. Huh? When did the Merovingian have a chance to do this exactly? The Architect could have done it easily by fooling Neo into believing he could save Trinity by going through the right door when in reality he was entering another layer of the Matrix. This may have been how they got him to re-insert his code into a new Matrix to beging with, just send him in there by lying to him about saving Trinity.
But as it left we are meant to believe that after they leave the train station Neo has returned to the real "real world". And here is where the problem compounds itself. "The powers of the One extend beyond the Matrix into the real world". What the Hell? So, now, after two other movies make it completely obvious that the supernatural is not real, but just a glitch in the Matrix or purposeful programming, we are supposed to just believe that Neo has magical powers in the real world. They basically took the premise of the first two films (a premise that I loved) and flushed it down the toilet. Magic and the supernatural are possible apparently, it's not just programming.
That's my main problem with Revolutions.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
What was the Merovingian exactly? Does that word have a meaning in, French perhaps?
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Merovingian (I looked it up) refers to the decendants of a line of Kings of Gaul, or ancient France. I think it's just him being pretentious.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Regarding the supernatural, Neo didn't exactly have the power to turn water to root beer or make the dead dance. He didn't even have the super-karateka skills in the real world. He only displayed one type of "supernatural" power, that over the Machines' minions. Which isn't all that supernatural in the end.
All it really tells us is that a man/machine connection can exist even when there isn't a big cable shoved into the man's midbrain. Neo is still stocked with more plumbing and wiring than your average Borg - his "miracle" is just the fact that he can go wireless, presumably thanks to the built-in hardware and some Neo-specific software. And that across that wireless connection, he can send the Machine minions the polite request to "drop dead" or "blow up in a fireball".
All in all, not much of a movie. Could have worked better if they'd left out the plot and the characters. What I found amusing was the lack of product placement. What happened? We didn't even get mobile phones.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
With regards to Bond's point about rogue programs being the only ones with "supernatural powers"....that's really doesnt fit. Anyone with enough underdatnding of the matrix and the fallacy of it's existance can have powers. Or did you think didging bullets and running up walls was natural?
In a real way, Neo IS one of those "rogue programs" you're talking about....he just has a human shell. If he was grown in a pod, it's possible his program ws downloaded into the physical human body just as Smith did to Bane.
Posted by Alshrim Dax (Member # 258) on :
Well... I liked it the first time i saw it - and liked it more the second time ...
I think that the entire Matrix movie series is one that you have to see more than once to fully appreciate it. There is simply too much information being shot our way - that the first time you see it, you must just go there to take it all in. The second - go and get some questions answered ..
I found that the second time i saw this movie - i was able to see subtle things that I had missed the first time.
As far as how Neo kills Smith: He doesn't. He makes the Smith *virus* available to the Architect to detroy.
Remember that when Smith assimilates another program, he takes with him a piece of that individual... and if that person is jacked into the matrix - and leaves - then the Smith ID becomes part of that Human Individual - as we learned with Bane (Is that his name?). Smith wanted to kill Neo - and if he couldn't do it in the Matrix - he'd try in the Machine world..
When the Smith *virus* told Neo the token Oracle anacdote: "Everything that has a beginning has an end!" - Neo realizes that the Smith Virus had assimilated the Oracle - but in fact, the Oracle allowed herself to be taken - so that she could pass that message on to Neo. Neo let himself be assimilated because, he new that in the Machine world, the Smith ID would become visible and the Architect could make short-change of him!
All this re-enforced another theory to me - and you can agree or disagree- but i don't think they were EVER outside the Matrix.. I believe that even tho' human's thought they were out of the Matrix (unplugged as it were) they really weren't!
Why do i think this? Because if Zi'on was destroyed 6 other times... there wouldn't be any humans left alive! And that Neo was never human - he's a program just like the Oracle, Architect and Smith... This would explain his sight after being blinded. Why he could feel the sentinels and destroy them - even if he wasn't jacked in... which is why the doctor at the beginning saw Neo's neuro-patterns as one being already jacked in -- he was part of the matrix - of course his patterns would be like that Matrix... Which is why we see him being recycled at the end... it's just starting right over again - we pretty much saw the Matrix "Reboot" at the end... and it will start all over again - which is why the movie doesn't really.. END.. ONly this time - the choices of the ONE prevented the destruction of Zi'on .. and if things continue - eventually Humans will win!
Anyhow- that's my take on it.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Because if Zi'on was destroyed 6 other times... there wouldn't be any humans left alive!
What?
This would explain his sight after being blinded.
Actually, I'd rather chalk that up to a rip-off of "Dune Messiah..."
Posted by Alshrim Dax (Member # 258) on :
In several spots along the way - either by "Merv" or the Architect - both of them had said, that they had faced The One -sorry- 5 other times and survived him.
Merv: "I have survived your other predesessors - I will survive you as well!" (or something like that)
The architect makes note that this was -- sorry --- the sixth time he has faced the one - and each time he has his choice was to save Zi'on - well if this is the sixth time he's faced Neo - then Neo must have failed ... cuz had he succeeded - there would be no need to repeat the excersise...
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Uh, if we take the Architect's rants at face value, then success of The One would be *defined* as the destruction of Zion yet the survival of the Matrix, from which 23 new people would be plucked to found a new Zion.
Losing the few thousands of people in Zion during each reset would be no great loss for a multi-billion humankind, and would in no way endanger its survival. If The One failed to destroy Zion and reset the Matrix, though, then the people in the Matrix would apparently die, and THAT would mean end of mankind.
Now, we don't have to believe the Architect. Even Neo is dubious about the concept that the Machines would build the Matrix so that all humans might die, since that would harm the Machines, too.
We can also choose to disbelieve Morpheus who says the Machines depend on humans, though. The story about humans being necessary as sources of energy is rather hokey - couldn't the Machines just build a really tall tower that goes through the clouds, and tap into solar energy? They could also use radioactives, which won't run out any time soon if the total power consumption is as low as the total electric output of human bodies.
If Morpheus is wrong (he was in about every other respect!), then Neo's antics when meeting the Architect might not be crucial to mankind's survival at all. The Architect could just be playing silly games.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Bond, James Bond (Member # 1127) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon:
With regards to Bond's point about rogue programs being the only ones with "supernatural powers"....that's really doesnt fit. Anyone with enough underdatnding of the matrix and the fallacy of it's existance can have powers. Or did you think didging bullets and running up walls was natural?
In a real way, Neo IS one of those "rogue programs" you're talking about....he just has a human shell. If he was grown in a pod, it's possible his program ws downloaded into the physical human body just as Smith did to Bane.
I never said only rogue programs had supernatural powers, I said the supernatural powers were the result of programming. Neo, Trinity, Morpheus, Niobe, etc. are all just avatars in the Matrix, they're all just programs controlled by their own minds. They can take advantage of this and bend the rules of gravity, but that is simply a result of being able to alter their programmed parameters, nothing more.
Posted by Bond, James Bond (Member # 1127) on :
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Timo:
[QB] Regarding the supernatural, Neo didn't exactly have the power to turn water to root beer or make the dead dance. He didn't even have the super-karateka skills in the real world. He only displayed one type of "supernatural" power, that over the Machines' minions. Which isn't all that supernatural in the end. __________________________________________________
Which is another point. Even though he doesn't have the same muscular strength outside the Matrix, why did he seem to forget his karate skills like Daniel Son in the Karate Kid did between each movie? He still has the memories of how to do Kung Fu so what's the problem? __________________________________________________
All it really tells us is that a man/machine connection can exist even when there isn't a big cable shoved into the man's midbrain. Neo is still stocked with more plumbing and wiring than your average Borg - his "miracle" is just the fact that he can go wireless, presumably thanks to the built-in hardware and some Neo-specific software. And that across that wireless connection, he can send the Machine minions the polite request to "drop dead" or "blow up in a fireball". __________________________________________________
I considered this as well but that would have to mean that the Machines gave him the ability to destroy them which makes no sense. And it should also mean that anyone could potentially do this, they all have the same plugs. If that was what it was it would have been nice to at least get some explanation from that damn enigmatic Oracle beyond "The powers of the One extend into the real world". Well, thanks a pantload Chet for more vague revelations. __________________________________________________
All in all, not much of a movie. Could have worked better if they'd left out the plot and the characters. What I found amusing was the lack of product placement. What happened? We didn't even get mobile phones. __________________________________________________
The nipple rings and S&M costumes were brought to you by "Azrael's House of Gothika". Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Regarding Neo's lack of kung fu mojo in the real world, he knows how to kick butt in the world of the matrix, where he can bend the rules of gravity and physics. His real body has never been trained for that kind of activity. He's never actually done a spin kick and in the real world, he can't defy gravity. It might have been cool to see him try to use martial arts and then hurt himself in the process... but there's no way he could actually pull it off.
Also, as far as his connection to the Source in the real world goes... remember, no other One has ever returned to the Matrix or the real world after speaking with the Architecht. They may not have known that he would get juiced. The Oracle seemed to understand it... but she seems to know more than most of the programs.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
As far as Neo's real-world powers go, it's possible that he was MADE to be the One. The machines chose him, and he has some specific implant to facilitate that. As far as Neo doing his Kung Fu in reality, his brain should still have the knowledge necessary, whether his physical body had done it or not. His mind can't tell the difference. He could also fight in the sparring program before he knew he could bend the rules. His muscles might not be well-trained, but he should still have SOME skill. Maybe it just didn't occur to him?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
" His muscles might not be well-trained, but he should still have SOME skill. Maybe it just didn't occur to him?"
Not directed directly at you Omega - but GEEZE!! The amount of plot holes that people are willing to let slide in the 2nd and 3rd matrix movies is astounding... these sort of things would have been ripped to shreads if it was a Trek movie.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
quote: Cypher was going to be put back in as someone else
As Ronald Reagan, in fact. (Or such is the implication.)
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Well, either that or his name was Reagan already...
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
From memory: "I want to be somebody important. Like a politician, or an actor."
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
And remember nothing, yes. But since Smith only called him Mr. Reagan once, with no particular emphasis on it, it could have been a joke on Smith's part, or it could have been Cypher's real name, making it a joke on the Wachowski's part. Can't tell from information given.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Smith: whatta joker that guy is!
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I don't remember him making reference to wanting to be a politician. He just said he didn't want to remember "nothing.... And I want to be someone important... like an actor."
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
Poot. Looks like his name is just Mr. Reagan, as in Neo is Mr. Anderson, just a coincidence.
quote: The restaurant is located on the top floor of a Chicago skyscraper where the view is breathtaking and the menu has no prices. Sitting across from Cypher is Agent Smith. AGENT SMITH Do we have a deal, Mr. Reagan? Cypher chews the steak loudly, smacking it between his teeth. CYPHER Mmm, so, so fucking good. Smith watches him shovel another hunk of meat into his mouth. CYPHER You know, I know that this steak doesn't exist. I know when I put it in my mouth, the Matrix is telling my brain that it is juicy and delicious. After nine years, do you know what I've realized? Pausing, he examines the meat skewered on his fork. He pops it in, eyes rolling up, savoring the tender beef melting in his mouth. CYPHER Ignorance is bliss. AGENT SMITH Then we have a deal? CYPHER I don't want to remember nothing. Nothing! You understand? And I want to be rich. Someone important. Like an actor. You can do that, right? AGENT SMITH Whatever you want, Mr. Reagan. Cypher takes a deep drink of wine. CYPHER All right. You get my body back in a power plant, reinsert me into the Matrix and I'll get you what you want. AGENT SMITH Access codes to Zion. CYPHER I told you, I don't know them. But I can give you the man who does.
This brings up another interesting question... If Cypher is jacked in at this point, he's likely being monitored from the ship. How can he be sitting across the table from an Agent without everyone going nuts? They can see the Agents in the code on their monitors. Even if he thought he had created some kind of diversion on the ship so as not to be monitored for a time, why would he sit there and have a meal with the guy?
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Maybe Cypher frequents the restaraunt, so people weren't paying too much attention to that part. And my guess about the agents would be that they're only visible when they're breaking the rules, maybe unless you're specifically looking for 'em. Remember how whacky everything got on the screens when all those Smiths showed up, or while Neo was flying around?
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
I'm of the opinion that he jacked HIMSELF in on the night shift, after Neo talked with him. They were basically waiting for the Oracle to call, so they were at broadcast depth and sitting tight for some time while online. It was probably a little awkward to do, but while everyone was asleep Cypher stuck the spike into his own head, and took a little trip to see Smith. He was probably in the middle of setting up the meeting when Neo surprised him.
Mark
PS - We watched the first two LOTR movies in a marathon session yesterday, and are now more convinced than ever that Middle Earth is just another incarnation of the Matrix.
Misssster Aragorn... We've missed you.
Posted by leuckinc (Member # 729) on :
lol, never thought of that. Who are the agents? The elves?
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Er, the fact that he was called "Mr Reagen" before they got to the "actor/politician" bit doesn't make it a coincidence. It means that the writers were doing one of those "things you only notice if you are paying attention or watching the movie a second time and are a bit obsessive".
Anyway, I know I'm late with this, but...saw it. Thought it was okay as an action film. Compared to the first, it was a bit...meh. But far, far better than Reloaded. By the time they got to the fight with the bloke who wasn't Jet Lee in that film, I was sick to death of the fighting. This one was better. Smith does seem to be doing a caricature of himself by the end of the film though. And how slow is Neo?
"I've been waiting for this moment, Mr Anderson."
"Who are you?"
"Human bodies digust me. Therefore implying that I'm not human."
"Who are you?"
"There are many of me, and I've fought you before."
"Who are you?"
"Mr Anderson, I will kill you, like you tried to kill me at the end of the first movie but didn't and then there were lots of me in the second one and you attacked me with a stick."
"Nope, sorry, who are you?"
I was terrified when the Architect appeared at the end though. I was going to scream if he started talking like that again.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
No kidding. You'd think that Bane calling him Mr. Anderson would be a big clue since Smith is the only one to call him that.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
If Cypher jacked himself in, and noone was around to monitor him, how did he get out?
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Auto-timed exit call?
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
I'm thinking he set the outside computer to automatically dial in at an exit point, or to do so when he signaled it through his cell. His reviving in the Real isn't necessarily contingent on the spike leaving his head.
Mark
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Hmmmmm... Good point. Ok, I can live with that explanation.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: I'm thinking he set the outside computer to automatically dial in at an exit point, or to do so when he signaled it through his cell. His reviving in the Real isn't necessarily contingent on the spike leaving his head.
Mark
What would happen if a Matrix resident (another human hooked up) picked up a ringing phone that was intended for Neo, Trinity, Morpheus etc? Would Neo be then walking around with some little old lady's mind in his body?
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
I'd guess they'd just hear a modem signal. Smith only got out by possessing the digital self of a guy who could have gotten out anyway.
Posted by Proteus (Member # 212) on :
^^ am i the only one that found that extremly not funny? Its like he's trying to be maddox, but failing. Horribly.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Oh, I dont know: Neo sure fought like an old lady in the Logos against Smith/Bane.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Omega: Dune Messiah, yeah. Also, how about the whole Kwizatz Haderach project?
About the whole "Kung-Fu in the matrix but not outside", the software is probably installed into latent, subconscious memory. Would work inside the matrix. Real world martial arts can only be learned through muscle/nerve memory, though. Big dif.
Another question, (less relevant but more fun), is how would they actually �grow� humans? They can�t just take a random sperm from a guy and insert it in a random egg of a woman, without the natural selection of a good sperm-race any number of birth defects would appear in this fashion of growing humans.
And going from chance to deliberation, trying to calculate the possible number of variations in an offspring feels hard to me. Take the DNA setup of a single sperm (10 billion entries?), multiply it with the number of sperms available in one beanbag every day, then multiply that with the number of mature beanbags in the pods (18-50 years), then multiply that figure with the number of eggs available each day. How many zeros have we reached now?
Or let�s say a person falls in love with another in the matrix. They make love and the woman gets pregnant. Has some sentinel now flown between the lovers, separated in the real world by possibly ridiculous distances, and inseminated pod-ma�am with pod-sir�s semen?
Secondly, how can they make billions of pod-people believe the year is 1999, for hundreds of years? Not just 1999�s status of the world but the actual figure?? I mean, for crying out loud, they aren�t stupid. The thesis that matrix-people believe the year is 1999 must be supported by some sort of miracle-delusion project done at the very least every 31st December since The Great Podding for the thesis to hold.
Thirdly, returning to advanced metaphysics, doesn�t the waves of sentinels in the Zion hanger look like sperm floods? The architect is jizzing all over Zion, both metaphorically and increasingly. If that isn�t proof that old manjuice still cuts it, I obviously don�t know what is.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
About the whole "Kung-Fu in the matrix but not outside", the software is probably installed into latent, subconscious memory. Would work inside the matrix. Real world martial arts can only be learned through muscle/nerve memory, though. Big dif.
Muscle/nerve memory? If I believed in such a thing, it would make sense, but he should still KNOW how to move. It might not be as effective, but he should still have tried it.
Also, did they actually say that everyone in the Matrix always thinks it's 1999? That just happened to be the year that Neo thought it was in the first movie. But then, I havent' seen the third one.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Omega's right here about Neo still knowing how to move. If a martial artist was in the hospital for a stretch and his muscles atrophied a bit, he's still at least attempt to block a punch or try to fight back with his skills. While "reflex memory" is a very real thing as part of your kinesthetic sense,(definitely spelled wrong) but in Neo's case, he's be attempting Kung Fu moves but his reaction time would be waaay off.
ON the plus side, I'm glad they didint cop out and make Smith unable to take a punch in the real world because of the pain/tolerance diffrences betwen reality and the Martix.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Omega's right here about Neo still knowing how to move. If a martial artist was in the hospital for a stretch and his muscles atrophied a bit, he's still at least attempt to block a punch or try to fight back with his skills. While "reflex memory" is a very real thing as part of your kinesthetic sense,(definitely spelled wrong) but in Neo's case, he's be attempting Kung Fu moves but his reaction time would be waaay off.
ON the plus side, I'm glad they didint cop out and make Smith unable to take a punch in the real world because of the pain/tolerance diffrences betwen reality and the Martix.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
The software storage banks installed in every pod-person's cranium is what made it possible for Tank to download fighting-techniques into Neo.
The software is only accessible inside the Matrix, or Neo and Trinity could've put up more of a fight against Bane. Therefore, the techniques aren't written into the brain's coordination center like real training would be, but are written into the software department of the matrix-hardware. It isn't meant for Neo's real arms and legs, it is codes and algorithms for use inside the matrix.
Morpheus said it himself, "Do you think my strength or speed has anything to do with my muscles in this place?"
If Morpheus tells the truth, the opposite must be true also. A man proficient in martial arts outside the Matrix would be an impotent weakling if he were to be inserted into the matrix without Tank's precious discs.
Hypothetically, a person can kick a black belt's ass in a "Beat'em up"-computer game, but in the dojo it would be the opposite. The one's (no pun intended) reflexes are fine-tuned into controlling a few buttons, the other's are tuned into his entire body.
Omega: Your response surprises me. Muscle memory isn't something you believe in, the concept is a proven fact. That's what makes it possible for me to pick up a phone, while thinking of a person, and dial the person's number without even remembering I dialed it, I just did. Same with the button console next to the outer door of my building, my hand gets ready to enter the code when I approach the door, sometimes I surprise myself when finding myself inside the hallway with no memory of clicking the door-console. Muscle memory overrides conscious thought if properly conditioned, that's the goal with martial arts, to be able to act without having to plan first.
[ December 01, 2003, 11:20 AM: Message edited by: Nim ]
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
Yes, to let your subconscious mind take over, and to (sorry) unlearn what you have learned, but it's still that grey blob up there exercizing control - just on a lower level.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
If Morpheus tells the truth, the opposite must be true also. A man proficient in martial arts outside the Matrix would be an impotent weakling if he were to be inserted into the matrix without Tank's precious discs.
While your hardware-access explanation at least makes some rational sense, even if I don't buy it, this doesn't. Neo didn't forget how to walk when inserted into the Matrix, so why would a martial arts expert forget what he knew?
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
If Morpheus tells the truth, the opposite must be true also. A man proficient in martial arts outside the Matrix would be an impotent weakling if he were to be inserted into the matrix without Tank's precious discs.
While your hardware-access explanation at least makes some rational sense, even if I don't buy it, this doesn't. Neo didn't forget how to walk when inserted into the Matrix, so why would a martial arts expert forget what he knew?
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nim: Omega: Your response surprises me. Muscle memory isn't something you believe in, the concept is a proven fact.
It'd be far too easy to put a Friends reference in here.
Posted by Proteus (Member # 212) on :
Neo knows Kung Fu inside and outside of the Matrix. He is aware of his knowledge outside the Matrix. "I know Kung Fu..."
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Yes and no, Proteus, he felt that a part of his mind had been filled with new data. The only way he could show it to Morpheus was in their training-Matrix.
Omega: "While your hardware-access explanation at least makes some rational sense, even if I don't buy it, this doesn't. Neo didn't forget how to walk when inserted into the Matrix, so why would a martial arts expert forget what he knew?
Okay, one more time. The martial artist doesn't know how to fight with his cyber-parts any more than Thomas Anderson knew how to jump between two buildings. Outside the matrix the martial artist can fight excellent, but if he A: didn't train martial arts before getting liberated (upgrading his software the hard way), and B: hasn't upgraded his cybersoftware with Tank's discs, his cyber persona isn't equipped.
I didn't say Neo forgot how to walk when inserted into the Nebuchadnezzar-Matrix, he still had a Thomas Anderson cyber-persona to stand on. On the Nebuchadnezzar though, during his physical therapy, he had to learn to use his eyeglobes, walk and eat.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Just look at the way he punches Bane when he gets the chance, it's a lowly bar brawl technique. He isn't attempting any arm-locks, nerve pinches or kicks, just simple streetfighting. Same with Trinity.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Okay, our main point of disagreement here is that to your mind, the Matrix is indistinguishable from reality. You don't train your cyber-self and your real self each for the same tasks, because you don't have to. You know how to breathe in the Matrix, you can breathe in reality. You know how to remove a big metal tube from your throat in the matrix, you can do the same in reality, no relearning required.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Neither Neo, Trinity nor Morpheus needed to breathe in the Matrix, otherwise they would've been panting hard after the insanely long and demanding fights they endured. There is no atmosphere in the Matrix, it's a construct.
The thing is, Neo couldn't fly or stop bullets in reality. The place in his cyborg-brain that harbors those abilities also harbors his matrix-kung fu. He can imitate it in real life, but the only way to really have the same set of moves rehearsed in his real-life coordination center is to train kung fu in real life. Hence their sluggishness against Bane, who didn't fight any good himself, regardless of Mr Smith's original fighting-prowess.
Now, if we assume the two coordination-centers really were one and the same, Neo's limbs would be flinching faintly when sitting in the uplink-chair, like a sleeping dog/cat dreaming of running. He only flinches when being hit, though.
If I think real hard about a karate-match I once fought in, my arms and thighs can twitch in remembrance, subconsciously, as I imagine a sequence of kicks and punches.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Cool. Kind of like you're possesed with the spirit of Karate.
That would be sweet. I'd go on a rampage.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Neither Neo, Trinity nor Morpheus needed to breathe in the Matrix, otherwise they would've been panting hard after the insanely long and demanding fights they endured.
That's just a bending of the rules. They know they shouldn't get tired, so they don't. If they don't know that, though, there's no difference.
The thing is, Neo couldn't fly or stop bullets in reality. The place in his cyborg-brain that harbors those abilities also harbors his matrix-kung fu.
No, there is no cyborg brain involved (unless you subscribe to the theory that that's why Neo has powers in reality, and everyone else doesn't, but that wouldn't affect this). We've never seen any evidence of brain implants, only of artificial sensory feeds interrupting the real ones. He can stop bullets because he believes he can stop bullets, no more, no less. He can do kung fu because he KNOWS kung fu, no more, no less. His brain CAN NOT tell the difference between reality and the Matrix, except in the fact that he can change the simulation, thus tipping him off to its falsity. Your muscles are controlled by your brain, where his fu is stored. I see no reason why he wouldn't know the moves in reality.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
He can also detect the code in the Matrix and sense things in it. When you open your eyes and everything is glowy green characters, that'd be a pretty big clue that you're in the Matrix, too.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
...which may well be a result of his knowing he's in the Matrix. He couldn't see it for a good long time, after all, nor can anyone else.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Right. He could only see the code and manipulate it after his mind had been sufficiently freed and he had achieved his full potential as the One. Morph and Trin know they're in the Matrix as well, but they don't have the same skillz as Neo.
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