Well . . . I'd say we've found where things went FUBAR. It was off-camera whenever the "farms" were started up.
I'm quite impressed by this episode. Upon discovering that Starbuck, who ostensibly loves Lee, was once again whoring about the countryside (this time literally), I felt virtually no emotional impact upon seeing her fall. However, by the end of the episode, I was actually concerned about her plight once again, and seeing her pouty and teary-eyed at the end actually held some impact.
Meanwhile, Adama is back in command, and somewhat inexplicably seems to be maintaining things in keeping with what his drunken XO "really fracked up" while he was down. I'm sure a certain amount of decision-continuity is desired so that Galactica's command structure doesn't appear to be in disarray with each different guy in the center seat for a shift, but maintaining and even building upon the extreme-hardline approach seems a little absurd under the circumstances. The coup was one thing . . . it was for certain specific reasons. But now, it's becoming a larger conflict, ideologically.
That said, it's made clear that as far as Adama can tell, Roslin is out of her flippin' mind with the religious claptrap. I did find it quite amusing, though, that he felt no one would follow her. To be sure, he did not see the Quorum bowing to her in the jail cell, but to the eyes of a non-religious person in the early 21st Century, I'd say it should've been quite obvious that a significant number of people would. Hell, a significant number of people will follow most anyone . . . Koresh, bin Laden, whatever.
We've had several indications that the society of Caprica and the other colonies has included a non-religious group and a religious group, so I might've expected Adama to have that somewhat cynical approach that comes with being a member of the former regarding the possibility of irrationality in the latter. I can only assume that he felt that was the old way of things, before the End of the Worlds.
In any event, the events on Caprica in this episode seem to call into question the idea that Boomer is knocked up. The Cylons had a peculiar notion that love could be used for hybrid-creation in place of various disconcerting technologies. If Caprica-Boomer is actually pregnant, then this notion is accurate . . . but if so, then we've sort of ventured into the surreal. And, of course, there's the issue of the possible offspring of Gaius and Six, "the face of the shape of things to come". Six does seem to have feelings for Gaius, but during their sexcapades Gaius was too much of a player for me to believe there was love there.
Nonetheless, I still think the notion of love vs. farms is a bit odd, and I hope they revisit this and make it fit better later. Despite the religious leanings of the series, things have been interpretable rationally thus far . . . and while I certainly have a soft spot for the idea that love conquers all, the notion of knocking up a toaster being possible because of love stretches my suspension of disbelief.
Last thing: is this the real Caprica-Boomer that we see at the end of the ep? Last time we saw Cap-B she'd stolen Starbuck's ride. Now she's back, walking out of the forest, claiming to have tracked Helo. What did she do with the raider? And what was she doing between the time she left and the time she popped into view in the woods?
I hope someone asks this soon, because although the presence of the shoulder wound seemed like proof enough when I first saw her, it really isn't . . . any number of Sharons could've been wounded to get the right effect.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
The opening sequence preview is back!!! *does the happy dance*
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I got the impression that the problem wasn't that the Cylon's couldn't breed with humans without love, but that they couldn't breed with each other (in their minds because they didn't love themselves). That might be exchanging mystical nonsense for psychobabble, but it may just be the Cylon's method of making human model has rendered them oddly incompatible with themselves, from a breeding standpoint and have interpreted this as a sign-from -god[sup]tm[/sup] that they must learn to love in order to be fruitful. Still an odd situation, but at least the real cause of the apparent infertility could have a real medical cause and the mumbo-jumbo is all in the interpretation of not being able to find a medical solution.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
I'm trying to decide whether these "farms" are creepier and more disgusting than the Axlotl tanks in the later "Dune" novels. Visually, they weren't quite as bad as I'd imagined the things from "Dune", but then, Sci-Fi is television, so they don't want to go quite so far...
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I pictured the Axlotl tanks as being much worse than that. If memory serves, they're described as being bulbous, limbless and misshapen, more of a fleshy chemical factory than a recognisable and indeed still conscious person. Weren't they supposed to be able to hold an adult sized Ghola? That's some seriously drastic genetic engineering.
I get the impression that these farms are more experimental, mengele type operations than actual production lines for baby Cylons.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Upon discovering that Starbuck, who ostensibly loves Lee, was once again whoring about the countryside (this time literally)..."
Well, to be fair, that space-basketball guy did bear a little bit of resemblance to Apollo. I guess.
And is it just me, or did the resistance people (or, at the very least, their leader) seem strangely open to having Sharon the Cylon in their midst? Helo's word that "she's with us" was enough?
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
Sanders looks like Greg Grunberg (Eric Weiss from Alias), at least to me. And we now know a fifth Cylon model.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
"Whoring"?
I really liked this episode. I would expect that at least some of Roslin's supporters went with her for secular reasons.
47,857 survivors this time, so Boomer didn't count.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Somehow I doubt anyone would question Starbuck's behaviour in the light of her feelings for Lee if the genders of all concerned were reversed. Strange how people seam to expect women to be more faithful than men, or is it that unfaithfulness is more acceptable with men?
For the record I don't think there's anything wrong with Starbuck falling in love with the Pyramid bloke, it's not like she's in a relationship with anyone and she is in a highly stressful situation, with plenty of hormones flying around.
Posted by Mighty Blogger Snay (Member # 411) on :
TSN,
I don't think the group of Resistence Folks realized Sharon was a Cylon -- the Cylons probably kept the Sharon-Cylon's identity a secret so that if she and Helo fell in with them on their "quest to find love" Sharon's identity as a member of the military wouldn't be questioned. I think only their leader knew, and only after Starbuck and Helo filled him in on it and kept him quiet.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
If that were the case then wouldn't they have been a bit more careful before about having another Sharon model walk around the landing field for Helo to see.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Does it matter if Helo sees another Sharon? He's known for longer than anyone that she's a Cylon.
Snay: I realize that we only know for certain that the leader knows she's a Cylon. But, that's what I'm saying: Doesn't he seem a bit calm about it? An episode ago, he was gung-ho about gunning down anyone he saw driving down the road, on the off-chance they might be Cylons. Now he's got a self-admitted Cylon walking around freely in his resistance cell, and he doesn't express the least bit of apprehension?
Posted by machf (Member # 1233) on :
quote:Originally posted by Omega: The opening sequence preview is back!!! *does the happy dance*
Yeah... my folks around here thought something had happened to me when I shouted "Hey, it's back!"
Posted by machf (Member # 1233) on :
quote:Originally posted by Guardian 2000: Last thing: is this the real Caprica-Boomer that we see at the end of the ep? Last time we saw Cap-B she'd stolen Starbuck's ride. Now she's back, walking out of the forest, claiming to have tracked Helo. What did she do with the raider? And what was she doing between the time she left and the time she popped into view in the woods?
Well, I'd say people just assume Boomer 2 took the raider because of Starbuck's comment ("Damn b*tch stole my ride!", IIRC), but actually, we didn't see her do it. I've suspected maybe the raider was somehow re-activated after reaching Caprica (with the other Cylons' presence nearby and all that, you know), while Boomer 2 just hid away from Starbuck...
BTW, my friend commented something a few days ago... didn't the raider contain the navigational information necessary to return to Galactica's position?
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
That raises an interesting point. If Caprica-Boomer did actually swipe the raider, then she must've either ditched it or somehow made it impossible for the other Cylons to track down Galactica. Which would mean that the Boomer model is flawed indeed.
Posted by Mighty Blogger Snay (Member # 411) on :
quote:Does it matter if Helo sees another Sharon? He's known for longer than anyone that she's a Cylon.
No. He meant that Helo recognized Sharon for being a Cylon when he saw another Sharon-Cylon walking around the airfield last season.
Of course, by that point, Helo's Sharon had broken contact with her Cylon controller, so it isn't like they were able to do a lot of coordinating, y'know?
quote: I realize that we only know for certain that the leader knows she's a Cylon. But, that's what I'm saying: Doesn't he seem a bit calm about it? An episode ago, he was gung-ho about gunning down anyone he saw driving down the road, on the off-chance they might be Cylons. Now he's got a self-admitted Cylon walking around freely in his resistance cell, and he doesn't express the least bit of apprehension?
Well, remember that the leader hadn't gotten laid in a long while, plus, he trusts Starbuck & Helo, and if they tell him Sharon's "defective" he may not believe it ... but he's willing, at least, to trust their judgement (probably 'cuz he wants Starbuck lovin' if she delivers on her promise to send a rescue mission).
Posted by Mighty Blogger Snay (Member # 411) on :
quote:didn't the raider contain the navigational information necessary to return to Galactica's position?
That doesn't matter though ... does it? Galactica has jumped several times since Starbuck's raider was stolen. What is needed is not the Galactica's old position, but rather the coordinates for Kobol.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"No. He meant that Helo recognized Sharon for being a Cylon when he saw another Sharon-Cylon walking around the airfield last season."
Well, in that case... What does that have to do with anything?
Posted by machf (Member # 1233) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mighty Blogger Snay:
quote:didn't the raider contain the navigational information necessary to return to Galactica's position?
That doesn't matter though ... does it? Galactica has jumped several times since Starbuck's raider was stolen. What is needed is not the Galactica's old position, but rather the coordinates for Kobol.
Right... anyway, he left me wondering (a) how Starbuck would be able to return and (b) if the Cylons will be going there too.
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
Well, I don't think Rosalyn was planning on going anywhere until Starbuck got back. But the fleet was forced to jump before that happened. Nice coincidence that Ros and her supporters are jumping back to Kobol just as Starbuck gets a new ride.
But I was suprised that Starbuck wasn't trying to rip Boomer's head off, even if she did just save her life.
B.J.
Posted by Mighty Blogger Snay (Member # 411) on :
"Well, in that case... What does that have to do with anything?"
Um. I don't know -- why'd you bring it up?
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: Somehow I doubt anyone would question Starbuck's behaviour in the light of her feelings for Lee if the genders of all concerned were reversed.
Actually no, I'm equal-opportunity in that regard. Of course, I can think of no similar example which satisfies the requirement of the situations being reversed, so perhaps TV writers don't approach things so equally.
Now, what'll be fun is when you end up with Helo, the Chief, and a pregnant maybe-Caprica-Sharon in the same room on Galactica.
(I sense that the Chief, much like DS9's Chief, is going to end up as the guy who gets run through the ringer constantly.)
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
What's happened to Olmos' face? It's changed somehow. Maybe it's just the hair, or maybe he's had a facelift. He looks younger, less jowly.
I suspect we now know who Six's surrogate mother could turn out to be. They seemed to be treating Starbuck differently than the other 'hosts.'
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
Please forgive me for stating the obvious, but, Lee, are you intimating that they cut Baltar's baby out of Starbuck's womb? Because that'd actually be really interesting. I had imagined they'd put disquieting-psychoanalysis-fake-doctor-Cylon swimmers up there or maybe harvested some eggs or something, but... Zwounds.
quote:Originally posted by B.J.: Well, I don't think Rosalyn was planning on going anywhere until Starbuck got back. But the fleet was forced to jump before that happened. Nice coincidence that Ros and her supporters are jumping back to Kobol just as Starbuck gets a new ride.
So, er, I got confused in all the jumping and calculating of jumps, etc. Did Roslyn and Co. jump straight to Kobol or back to the point where Starbuck stole the raider? Because the former obviously had a Cylon problem (building missile batteries planteside, etc.) and the latter was swarming with Cylons from when Galactica jumped back to calculate the fleet's un-drift-compensated position.
(Also, did anyone notice how restrained I was not whinging about the "networks", "firewalls" and "gateways" in the previous ep? It wasn't easy.)
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
(And don't even get me started on the "mainframe".)
BTW, did anyone get get any good caps of the new Cylon minivan?
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
Do you perhaps mean this?
More can be found here.
Posted by Mighty Blogger Snay (Member # 411) on :
That's not new - we saw it when the Cylons boarded Galactica.
Or did you mean "new to this season"?
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Well, it isn't new to this season either.
Posted by Mighty Blogger Snay (Member # 411) on :
When did we see it in the first season?
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
"Colonial Day". One is either taking off from or landing at (I do not remember which.) the base Helo and Boomer finally arrive at.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Actually, I was implying that maybe they've implanted something. I can't recall the overheard dialogue between Simon and Hospital Six (I've also seen a publicity still that shows two Sixes conferring in the hospital, and don't remember that from the show, so it must be a deleted scene) but it gave some clue as to what they were doing, and it seemed rather an elaborate process given how many other women they've been plugging into those incubators. And they took much better care of her than that other Resistance woman. So. . . I dunno. A Six may be intended as the mother of Baltar's shild, but so far there's been no real possibility for one to be pregnant from him. Original (pre-apocalypse) Six got a nuclear blast wave full in the face. They could have his sperm from somewhere but this ep indicates that normal implantation doesn't work, it has to be an ickle wickle child of lurve (but implantation is potentially what's been done here, I know). . . If Baltar's Inner Six is in contact with all the other Sixes then they know of his relationship with Starbuck, it'd tickle their mean little senses of irony to use her somehow.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
quote:Simon:...pending lab test results on [sample for] ovaries, complete removal will proceed tomorrow. They've lab tested positive and subject will be removed to processing facility for final disposition.
Number Six: Is that regret I hear in your voice, Simon?
Simon: If it is, it certainly is none of your concern.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
How come all the other Cylon models have a regular name and Six is a number?
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Because nobody would believe her name was "Harvey". Of course, it's also possible that Six is a name in the colonies, or that the others' names aren't really their names, just their assumed identities, and Six doesn't have one. Sharon to them is just Eleven, say, but she pretends to be Sharon when necessary.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
It is a bit strange: in the show (and by people watching the show) Cylon models are referred to by the names the first versions seen of each was using: Sharon/Boomer, Doral, Leoben and now Simon. Yet Tricia Helfer's only character name ever mentioned anywhere is Six (apart from her appearance as Shelley Godfrey) - I don't remember her being called anything by Baltar, whether a name or number. I suppose this is because we were meant to know right from the start she's a Cylon; but if so, why since then haven't they made any attempt to number any of the other known models? Not that it detracts from the show that they haven't, and besides if they did it'd probably end up getting cut for time like the merciful excising of Boxey!
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
A Battlestar Wikipedia? My life is complete. *puts gun to head and pulls trigger*
That's the dialogue I meant. Why are they removing her ovaries if she's meant to become a cylon incubator? They must be necessary because they're being tested prior to removal. Or would they just be used to re-stock an existing co-opted colonial woman already serving as an incubator?
And the dialogue implies moving her to another location. Why if they obviously have a full setup there?
But it also explains away the extra scar, that they were doing tests; yet I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere down the line it emerges that more had been done to her. . .
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I got the impression that they were going to remove her reproductive organs and implant them in a Cylon. It was stated that they're comming at the sterility problem from several different angles.
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
Because nobody would believe her name was "Harvey". HA!
Not much to add this time, but I just wanted to point out that last episode, we finally got to see the redesigned Colonial shuttle created for the series. It looks very much like the original, but it's much smoother.
B.J.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Did we?
re Six: I've asked this before, but I don't recall the answer, if there was one: has anyone ever used that name in the show? Surely she had some believable cover name during the time she knew Baltar prior to the attack.
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
Perhaps Starbuck is the mother of all cylons after she rescues Adama and his Battlestar from the edge of an Event Horizon..... oh wait....
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Perhaps Baltar, given his treatment of women, simply didn't remember 6's cover name. Or after a long history of cheating on the women he's with he's aquired the habit of not refering to them by name, a neat trick if you want to avoid accidently saying the wrong name in a moment of passion.
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
Thanks for the caps, Toph. For some reason I remembered it being more saucer-like. Guess our galactipals have one of those now.
Am I completely imagining the episode where Starbuck and Baltar (she is imagining Lee) get it on?
Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
No. She screamed out Lee's name while they were doing it.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
I have this effect on people.
Posted by Mighty Blogger Snay (Member # 411) on :
I was wondering why I kept screaming your name when playing with myself ...
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Hey, when YOU have the same first name as a swachbuckling hero in a space opera, then you will be worthy to address me.
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
Address or UNdress?
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
I'm flexible.
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
