Well, I'd say they made up for the last few episodes with this one. No flashbacks, tight drama, and real body count. I was so proud of Billy for growing a pair, and then he gets capped trying to be a hero. Idiot. Good ploy with Boomer's corpse. I was hoping the producers would remember they had it. Nice to see Ellen Tigh is still a stupid wench. Nice to see the sort of chaos that can unfold in a real firefight. No space battles or Cylon stuff -- this was pure human-weakness-driven drama.
Can't wait to see where they go from here (I don't watch the teaser for the next ep, not since "Yesterday's Enterprise"). I like writing (and acting) that shows the consequences to these bigger events.
--Jonah
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Billy!
That's a good question, about what the other Cylon replicants look like and how many are in the fleet. So good I wonder why Adama hadn't asked it before.
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
Adama understands her position. He's not asking her to murder innocent people. Most Cylons don't know they are.. though it WOULD be worthwhile intel.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
I agree, this episode completely makes up for the last two! (Not that I exactly had a huge problem with the last two... it always makes sense for people to stop and take a look around and see what's happening. 'Course, there were the big plot holes too, but I can excuse the best show on of making a few small missteps every once in a while...)
So, I'm not exactly shocked that they killed Billy. I wasn't expecting it, mainly because I've stopped trying to anticipate what the writers do with this awesome show. In retrospect, they kinda foreshadowed it with Billy finally growing a pair of stones in front of the Commander Admiral, then proposing to and getting rejected by Dee. (Kinda the same way I was expecting them to kill off Pendergast in SG-1 last week after they told us his first name...) Regardless, it's definitely a shame Billy's gone, because he provided a wonderfully sweet and gentle counterbalance to just about everyone else on the cast � someone who's not in the military, isn't in a position requiring cold-hearted decisions every day, and not a raving bitch who belongs on the cast of Desperate Housewives.
Still, it's not Battlestar Galactica if they're not making controversial and series-changing decisions that affect a great many members of the cast. So now they've reduced the Love Trapezoid (Billy/Dee, Dee/Apollo, Apollo/Starbuck) back to the classic Love Triangle instead. Did anyone notice that Starbuck was hanging around Lee's sickbay bed, in a too-similar fashion to how Dee was hanging around outside the pilots' barracks after Lee's unscheduled spacewalk in "Resurrection Ship"?
Moving on, I did anticipate Adama using the old corpse of Sharon Mk. I as a ploy against the terrorists, from the second he suddenly decided to cave. Knowing his character and his interactions with Sharon Mk. II so far, it made little sense for him to so suddenly, without any outward (to the camera) indication of conflicting feelings or angst, decide to kill Sharon (and her baby) just to satisfy a bunch of whack-job terrorists. Because I have the feeling that Adama's character has absolutely zero respect for anyone who resorts to terrorism to get what they want. And of course, there's the subtle message buried in there that the terrorists are really just striking out in some way because they're angry and pissed off at The Establishment for whatever reason. Because after all, a dead husband is really a pretty lousy excuse for taking hostages and trying to gun down Colonial marines...
Going back to Sharon, it really kills me some times how harshly they keep treating her, even though it makes perfect and nearly indisputable sense for them to be so fearful. After all, Sharon has rather clearly stated that she means no harm to the fleet, and demonstrated on numerous occasions that she wants to help protect them as well. I don't think that all of her actions can truly be justified by self-preservation alone, even though that's what Adama seems to desperately want to believe, in order to keep Sharon listed under the "Enemies" category.
Based on his great speech in the miniseries, it's obvious that Adama had already arrived at a very similar conclusion to the one that the Cylons apparently came to, the cause for them wiping out all the Colonies. Heck, I've had some similar thoughts about the problems of society myself. The key difference is: is it right to thoughtlessly wipe out millions or billions of people just for the opportunity to start over? What kind of a new beginning is that if it's achieved by genocide, anyway?
Getting back to the point, I think that Adama seems to be gradually realizing that Sharon is not the enemy... and maybe, also, that the Cylons as a whole might only be the enemy because they're still hunting the fleet. We'll have to see where exactly this leads as time goes on. It'll probably all come to a head when it's time for Sharon to give birth to her (and *snicker* Baltar's) daughter. I'm guessing that might be around this season's finale, depending on how much time it takes...
It's great to be back on the road, after the last two potholes. I also look forward to next week, when we see more of the Pegasus!
Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
The staff's title of this episode must've been "Billy Don't Be A Hero". Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
Dang. Why do they always kill off the characters I really like/identify with? I personally thought his character was the embodiment of Hope in the show.
Who was the actress playing the head of the terrorist group? I know I know her, it's just not coming to me. I hate getting old....
B.J.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
No kidding. I agree completely with your take on Billy's presence. I guess they thought there was only room for one Bill in the RTF. *heh* It's going to be interesting seeing how this "death of hope" (literally) affects the mood of the show/survivors.
--Jonah
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Additional: Who the frack is commanding the Pegasus these days? I would presume on Galactica Gaeta would be next in line, but I don't remember ever meeting Pegasus' First Lieutenant...
--Jonah
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Who was the actress playing the head of the terrorist group?"
Dana Delany.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
While I liked the episode in general, there were weaknesses:
First, you suspected Billy could die as soon as he grew a pair, and this suspicion was reinforced with every scene. It could be rose-colored glasses, but I seem to recall the first season as always being full of surprises.
Second, the relationships have just sort of popped up. Billy and Dee and William's son, I mean (and yes, that does make Billy-Dee-William's). Sure, Billy and Dee were flirting back in the day, but we haven't seen that in ages . . . she had some sudden hots for Lee while he was sleeping with a hooker and then started back with Billy AFAIK. As such, the marriage proposal was out of the blue, and then the drinks with Lee and the "what to make of us" business was just completely out of left field for me. I could fill in the blanks, but I still felt like I'd missed a half-season or so.
Third, I realized that my enjoyment of BSG might be doomed as of this episode. That proposal scene was just such a soap opera cliche. I've had a love-hate relationship with television (and fiction in general, to some extent), but I've been known to watch certain small exceptions that are interesting because of their ideas. If BSG is going to become "The Young and the Restless" + Space + Shooting, then I'm afraid I'll be putting it down soon.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Why, when Adama asks "Who do we have aboard Cloud 9?", does Gaeta mention Apollo, Starbuck, and the marines, but not Dualla?
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
<>
Gaeta? Lee outranks Gaeta. The not-often seen Captain Kelly outranks Gaeta.
<>
Fisk's executive officer.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
I don't remember who Captain Kelly is, but Apollo and Starbuck are both part of the air wing, and thus not trained to command a Battlestar, probably. I'll keep it mind as a maybe, though...
--Jonah
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Oh bullshit Jonah. Just because Gaeta's on the CIC he's gonna get dumped into command? Hell no. He's a junior officer with no command experience. Thrace and Adama might not have experience commanding Battlestars, but they do have experience as commanders of Galactica's air-wing, which makes them more qualified. Besides, if the Colonial military works the way the US navy does, only former-Air Wing members can command Battlestars (Adama and Tigh both are ex-Viper pilots). That qualification alone, Gaeta flunks -- he's not a pilot.
I don't know the Chain of Command on Galactica, but Thrace and Lee are both Line Officers, like Gaeta. They both outrank Gaeta, as does Captain Kelly. Just because of where Gaeta works doesn't indicate his position in the CoC.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Good point. Had forgotten that little tidbit of Navy-ism. And you didn't need to call on the cow-poo. That's what the Flameboard is for.
--Jonah
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
But ...cowpoo is teh fun.
Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
I must say... I was dissapointed with this episode. Maybe because roughly from the middle it started being an artificial situation. Well at least to me.
It's like that: first the show us Starbuck going all John Woo on the terrorists, then blam! They instantly punish her for doing such stupid thing. My point is, if they knew that wielding two guns at the same time is not a smart thing... why doesn't Starbuck know that?
I mean, I have to assume that she's at least semi-compenent in that stuff - otherwise she wouldn't be in command of that situation. And, if Gun-fu doesn't exist in BSG universe, then Starbuck should've been aware of that.
And, yeah, Billy's dead was sensless, especially considering that Dee had the chance to do exactly what he tried to do earlier, only facing better circumstances (just after Lee is wounded)
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
It was all wrong. The Billy-Dee-William's son (nice one Scott) story would, traditionally, have played out like this:-
1. Billy proposes, Dee accepts. 2. She meets with Apollo to let him down gently. 3. Billy sees them and gets wrong end of stick. 4. Situation gets worse when Apollo is shot and Dee is even more upset. 5. However, Billy standing up to the crooks reminds Dee of why she prefers Billy to Apollo. 6. Billy killed, Dee heartbroken.
Clich�? Maybe. But I didn't see Billy's death coming, didn't register any foreshadowing at all. And I'm usually really good at it. "This is my last mission, then my tour is over." Dead! "Here's a picture of my fianc�e, we're going to get married after the war." Dead! (all hail Steve Punt & Hugh Dennis)
They've known about the possibility of the Billy-actor's leaving for a while now, they could have just continued developing the relationship between him and Dee until his sad death. Instead they've hurriedly shoehorned this bizarre attraction between her and Apollo into the mix, to the frankly strange point where one week Apollo's telling her she's not interested and she's promptly back canoodling with Billy, to the next where she's brutally turning down his inept proposal and is off swanning around on Cloud 9 with Apollo! It makes less sense than the Chewbacca Defense!
Then you have the further Starbuckian weirdness. Told to do a recce, she immediately hides not one but TWO guns in about the most obvious place possible and tries to do a John Woo.
Overall I'm with Kazey, no way did this ep represent any return to form.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
quote: 2. She meets with Apollo to let him down gently. 3. Billy sees them and gets wrong end of stick.
I have to say, that is perhaps my least favorite engine for drama, and I am very glad it wasn't used here.
Posted by bX (Member # 419) on :
No, but it seemed like they were going to a maybe different place with Lee apologizing and homing in on Ellen. But then, out of the blue, plot.
I didn't particularly like this episode. Dana Delany was great, but the whole terrorist/counter-terrorist action didn't seem very well thought out. Like why wouldn't Dana Delany go after a politician of some sort, or a specific character rather than just random hostages even if it is a high-profile bar. Plus I want to believe the 'death of my mate' vengeance/deperation-kick is too hackneyed for this series. But then the line "I have nothing left to live for" was actually spoken in a previous ep.
Lee coming out and wanting to talk was just silly as well. Why would he forfeit the advantage and not just wait in there and let her send another, or at the very least threaten to kill a hostage if he didn't come out. Was it to support his (cool) McGyver dry ice trick?
Starbuck going in with both guns blazing wasn't at all justified in my opinion, and given that she did, I had a hard time believing that her and the Marine would pull out at the point they did. And so once there, surely the guy with the Skorpion would be a priority target even while in retreat. As in he'd need to be neutralized before they tried to get back out. At first, I was kind of excited, because I thought maybe they were wrapping up the whole hostage subplot early. Like, yeah, Starbuck did something stupid and reckless, but she did stop the bad guys and now we can get on with something more interesting. My mind reeled at the possibilities: Billy and Ellen Tigh? Apollo confounding Starbuck some more? Gina(6)'s ironic involvement in the forfeit the Cylon plot? It was not to be.
And as has been previously said, I thought these capricious emotional attachments/detatchments don't seem to be coming from anything within the characters. Adama and Boomer was good, but Roslin before and mourning Billy was the only bond that I really bought lock & stock this ep, and then I was doubly sad because I really liked Billy's character and thought he and Dee had genuine potential.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
At least we know one thing now. Dee's the Cylon. Although I was half-expecting your usual "Cylon-Billy appears consulting with Six and some other Cylons on Caprica" coda, before I remembered that the lack of a Resurrection Ship to upload to kinda nixes that.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Shouldn't that be "Caprican" emotional attachments...?
And, Lee. Wha...? I just watched it again tonight, and I didn't see anything more to hint Dee was a Cylon than was out there before... Human females can be manipulative wenches without being Cylon sleeper agents, you know (apologies to the Lady Flarites -- I've been burned a few times in the past).
--Jonah
Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
I'm wondering the same as Peregrinus. How do we know Dee's a Cylon?
I was not expecting Apollo to come out and talk. Once he got inside the workings and messed with the o2 sensor, I was expecting a "Die Hard" type episode where Apollo harasses the terrorists and eliminates them one by one.
Plenty of terrorists hit soft targets that have nothing to do with the military such as night clubs, Trade Centers, etc... Perhaps, depending on the size of their terror group, the arms they had and the access to targets, they chose the best target they could.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Well, there's been lots of speculation that one of the minor characters is a Cylon. Key among those were Gaeta (barely seen of late), Billy (now dead) and Dualla. Who seems inordinately obsessed with making sure that someone is in love with her.
Unless the Cylon turns out to be Lt. "I'll just let my copilot go for a walk on a Cylon Basestar, come back without her helmet, and not mention it to anyone" Racetrack, of course.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I just realized something. Cloud 9 has a big-ass maintenance tunnel that's accessible only through the restroom of the ship's bar? After all, if the tunnel let out somewhere else, you'd think Lee would get out, find help (Starbuck and the marines), and bring them back in secretly through the tunnel.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
That's the waste extraction jeffries tube.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
quote:Unless the Cylon turns out to be Lt. "I'll just let my copilot go for a walk on a Cylon Basestar, come back without her helmet, and not mention it to anyone" Racetrack, of course.
Sure. Except she did. (And of course, for all Racetrack knew, the atmosphere was Earth-norm. Unless they mentioned it wasn't. Did they?)
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
quote:Originally posted by Peregrinus: Good point. Had forgotten that little tidbit of Navy-ism. And you didn't need to call on the cow-poo. That's what the Flameboard is for.
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