Saw it last night. Wowed, I was. Half of me was sated with the nostalgia trip alone and the music and the Marlon Brando, but aside from all that it was a really it was a good movie. The climax was somewhat overshadowed by an earlier scene, which I may go into in a subsequent post. But suffice it to say that as of this writing, it was awesome.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
Yeah, I saw it on the 28th. I thought it was great too. At first I thought it would suck hard, but then saw the previews and decided to see and be glad to be proved wrong.
The only thing I'm unsure of is the whole Superman love child thing. Hasn't that been a long time what-if scenario in the comics?
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
I'm not one for the superhero films. I loathed Spider-Man (though I thought the sequel was a bit of an improvement), have never read Daredevil or Hellboy so didn't go to see them (although I did eventually see the former on a plane journey); but I did make sure I went to see the X-Men ones (barring the third - no time) and The Punisher. I never even got round to seeing the new Batman or V For Vendetta. . . OK, so maybe I am one for the superhero films! But I'm really looking forward to this, especially from the trailers. Not sure why it's not on here until the 14th, maybe they thought the target audience wouldn't be interested until after the World Cup. . .
(also, I saw The Hulk on TV and loved it. I gather this means there's no hope for me.)
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lee: I loathed Spider-Man.... I saw The Hulk on TV and loved it. I gather this means there's no hope for me.
Yes. Yes it does.
Posted by Captain Boh (Member # 1282) on :
Superman Returns is a good movie. I plan on seeing it again.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
So do I. And buying the DVD.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
I liked this one. MInd you, I really liked the 1978 movie, which was my introduction to the Superman franchise. To me, this is a worthy addition to that continuity, and I'll gladly see it again. I further think there ought to be at least one sequel (or more - who here HASN'T wanted to see the Doomsday arc be played out on the big screen?), to if anything play out the offspring plot. Dunno where he was going with that, as this movie didn't take it too far.
Routh as Superman didn't do much besides emulate Reeve, as much as Kevin Spacey emulated Hackman's Luthor. However, these are as much archetypes of the characters in this continuity, and if this movie is to be an opener to further ones, I'd rather establish the actors in those roles before letting them expand them. In that sense, I think the actors all did their jobs well, except maybe for Lois, who didn't have the same spunk most of her counterparts have had. Mind you, this is the first time we've seen a MATERNAL Lois.
Mark
PS - So is THAT how it works? You get disintegrated in the Marvel universe, and you end up in the DC universe with a slightly meatier, yet still rather wooden role?
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lee: I never even got round to seeing the new Batman or V For Vendetta. . . (also, I saw The Hulk on TV and loved it. I gather this means there's no hope for me.)
Mate, you really need to see Batman Begins. It's worth watching just to see that car in action, if nothing else. It rocks.
As for Hulk. I can't remmember if that was any good because I fell asleep mid way through, somewhere around the mutant poodle bit I think. When I woke up the credits were rolling. Did I miss anything good?
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
Nope, you caught the best part of that movie. When it finally ends.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Ja, ja. Wunderbar! Suddenly zis is all makink sense. Ze Spider-Man film iss beink ze holy grail of ze superhero film for zo lonk, ze nerds are beink unwillink to admit to zemselves zat it sucks ze big one. Zen, ven ze Hulk film iss comink out, zis double-vammy iss beink sufficient to enrage zem zuch zat zey are prepared to admit zat a bad superhero film can be existink. But - and zis iss vere ze pathology is arisink - zey vill not admit zat Spider-man blew. Hackneyed zough ze script iss beink, and ze performances beink zub-par and hammy zroughout, zey ztill clink to zis delusion, lest zeir entire vorld-view iss zhatterink like ze. . . zing zat zhatters. A course of treatment I am recommendink. Pliss to be tellink me about your mother.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
The Spider-Man films are certainly good (my 5 year old niece says so) but I certainly wouldn't rate them the best comic book movies ever. I think Sin City gets that title for me, but that's a matter of personnal taste and not reflective of objective quality. Mind you that applies to just about everything, so I may as well admitt that I actually liked the Daredevil & Punisher movies. Hellboy was fun too, but that's mostly down to Ron P's performance, the plot didn't grab me, if indeed it had one...I couldn't tell.
The one I'm waiting for is Watchmen. It's either going to be really good or just...wrong.
Oh yeah keeping the thread vaguely on topic I better mention that I haven't seen Superman Returns yet, but I intend to soon (I'm not sure if it's out over here yet) but given Singer's track record (Usual Suspects is one of my all time favs) it can't go too far wrong.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Yeah, but as more time goes on TUS is starting to look more and more like an aberration. He's never done anything that has had quite the same impact. While he's a talented director, he seems to be getting more and more typecast as, well, a fanboy - the X-Men films, Superman, attempts to bring back Battlestar Galactica and Star Trek.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
$$Spoilers just so you know$$
The movie was good. The most impressive thing I found was Spacey's Luthor, who I found to be superb since he really embodied that SOB persona. The only thing that kind of killed it a bit for me was the Lois Lane baby's momma drama and Luthor's lame "I gonna make my own island" scheme.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Once I got comfortable with this being a sequel to the Reeves movies, I enjoyed it alot more. I was looking for more of a reboot ala Batman Begins. I wanted a fresh, maybe slightly darker Superman continuity where Luthor was a little more e-vil and less snobby, toupee wearing jag-off. I wanted an Alex Ross style Superman. Older, tired, but still galantly fighting the good fight.
A leather cape... on Superman? Did. Not. Work. I also couldn't stand the small "S" on his chest. It really needed to be bigger. And the neck line on his uniform looked really dumb. They did it better in "Lois and Clark".
Some little plot holes: 1) "Thousands of years" passed during Kal-El's original trip to Earth, presumably due to relativistic effects of near-lightspeed travel, yet Supes manages to make a round trip this time in 5 years. I thought him being all weak and barely able to stand after he landed from going so long without exposure to the Earh's yellow sun was cool though.
2) Didn't Luthor use the Addis Ababba meteorite in the first movie? I suppose more than one chunk could've been a part of that meteor strike.
3) Would a dying woman's barely legible signature on a recently updated will really hold up in court? And surely the family would've tied up the inheritance in court for years.
But hey... the special effects rocked hard, especially the shuttle rescue sequence. I was super-stunned.
Posted by bX (Member # 419) on :
Anyone else catch Richard Branson among the shuttle crew? That was a nice touch.
When I first saw the film, I admit, I was riding the nostalgia train. The performances, the style of dress, and principly the music took me back to a simpler time. A bumbling Clark, The Daily Planet, a real honest and upright good guy, and a deceitful and clever villian took me right back to popping that ragged VHS into my parents' monstrosity of a player.
A subsequent viewing helped me to enjoy it in its own right. I don't think it's a great film, but there is an awful lot to enjoy. I liked the cape and the smaller, protruding S. The effects were for the most part terrific and little touches like the dogs and the sequence with Lex's train set were just brilliant. I found Superman's first public reappearance with the shuttle to be very stirring (not quite the riders of Rohan charging, but stirring).
So my big problem was that while the climax certainly had some exciting action, and drama, it just didn't quite ignite the way earlier sequences had. I think part of it was a basic problem with Lex Luthor. By telegraphing his intent with the giant continent of Kryptonite it defused the brilliance of his plan. We weren't really all that surprised when he sucessfully decks the man in the cape. By letting the audience in on the plan ahead of time, it lessens the impact of that moment and instead of duping Superman, it makes our hero sort of a dope. I guess I 'm a fan of the idea that although Lex Luthor isn't faster than a speeding bullet, etc, he is really, REALLY intelligent, and that's why and how he is a threat to the man with the S on his chest. I like that Superman caught Lex's foot at one point, and I felt like maybe he ought to have been able to put up a little more of a fight before getting stomped and Krypto-shivved.
Add to that the Lois Lane housefamily turning about to rescue their rescuer, great for Superboy and triangle-tension, but it made our protagonist's triumph seem a lot less triumphant. I really enjoyed the sequence with him getting sunned up and then diving into magma and lifting the nacent Krypto-continent into space, and the coma and the denouement was nice.
So it certainly had some problems, but I still thought it was a fine film and really there was so much to enjoy that I was willing to overlook some story and continuity/physics problems. (I never even thought about the relativity issues with his 5 year round trip to the remnants of Krypton. I must have left my Star Trek in my other pants)
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I would have had no problems with the relativity issues either, had the Jor-el footage they played not specifically reminded us that thousands of years had passed since he left Krypton.
I think the saving the plane sequence was just stunning. I'm going to go see it again just for that. The plane breaking up as Supes tries to juggle it instead of miraculously remining in one piece was nice. Though, noone dying from getting thrown around and from the g-forces stretched credibility a bit.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
I thought one woman was killed when she was slamed against the back of the plane but she may have survived. If your going to see the movie again just keep that in mind and hopefully you'll find out what happened to her.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Dude, that was Lois. She got out of her seat to help Dipshit the Presenter-Woman and then everything went south and she became the tennis show in the dryer.
So... Yeah, she lived.
--Jonah
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Just saw it last night. It was certainly good...though I got very fidgety towards the end. Now some of that is to do with my local cinima having cramped seats, but that aside I though the plot was stretched a little bit thin. Maybe it's because Lex's evil plot kicked off fairly early and blueboy wasn't even aware that anything was up until the final act. Everything else is just him flying about, being invulnerable and looking cool. When you compare it to it's stablemate - Batman Begins, actual character development was almost non-existant and motivations were one dimensional. Don't get me wrong, it was a good effort, all the pieces were there, they just didn't seam, to fit together comfortably. I'm sure the next one will be much better, Singer has already proven he can learn from previous experiance.
Posted by Josh (Member # 1884) on :
I loved it. All the references to both the comic and prior films made it much more enjoyable for the hardcore fans.
I thought the end dragged a little, and I didn't care for the idea of Supes being in a hospital.
Oh, and was it just me or was the lady on the plane Nikita?
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Finally saw it. *buuurp*
I love how you saw footage of Superman sitting in a bar, knocking back a few cold ones, intercut with shots of Lois being slammed into every wall and surface six ways 'til sunday on the shuttle-liner. And Superman's like, "Yeah, yeah, in a minute!"
X-treme nitpick: The bullet fired at Superman's cornea made the sound of an empty shell when hitting the ground, instead of a solid slug. To quote Luthor; "WROONG!!"
I remember Parker Posey when she pulled dance moves in indie-movies and was semi-hot. This was not hot, it's too bad she didn't get to really live in this movie. But then again, who does? Spacey was good, and I do think his real-estate scheme was concurring with the original; Gene Hackman wanted all of Australia for himself, the most undeveloped landscape of the planet (plus Otisville).
Good that Frank Langella finally got some space to act a bit, even if he wasn't as acerbic as J.K Simmons' J. Jonah Jameson in "Spiderboy". I feel he's gotten the wind somewhat blown out of him since breaking up with Whoopi. Also, this must be the first time he's acted in the same movie as Kevin Spacey since "Doomsday Gun"(1994). It's so funny how that movie in VHS- and DVD-releases nowadays has a big picture of Spacey on the cover as a drawing card, although it the movie's all about Langella, and Spacey is just some forgettable CIA agent that once was a friend of Langella's character.
I didn't like Kate Bosworth at all. Stiff and bald. I'd've preferred the other Kate B. I shudder to think that the times have moved along so much that the other Kate B. is not eligible to be Superman's girlfriend, would've been considered old compared to the kid who played Superman. It's wrong I tell you.
The short nod to the times past, when Lois and Cal-El were talking, mentioned a time when he went back to see what was left of Krypton, just "to see it for himself". Is this covered in any of the comics or something? I'm surprised they added it to the script, even if it was just filler for the time-discrepancy when Superman was "Away".
P.S. I now have a nice Humperdinck-collection. Not just "Release Me" (thanks to "The Fast Show") but "Quando Quando Quando" (Superman elevator scene). Tha's it. *buuurp*
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I think the return the the ruins of Krypton was filmed but cut from the final film.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lee: Ja, ja. Wunderbar! Suddenly zis is all makink sense. Ze Spider-Man film iss beink ze holy grail of ze superhero film for zo lonk, ze nerds are beink unwillink to admit to zemselves zat it sucks ze big one. Zen, ven ze Hulk film iss comink out, zis double-vammy iss beink sufficient to enrage zem zuch zat zey are prepared to admit zat a bad superhero film can be existink. But - and zis iss vere ze pathology is arisink - zey vill not admit zat Spider-man blew. Hackneyed zough ze script iss beink, and ze performances beink zub-par and hammy zroughout, zey ztill clink to zis delusion, lest zeir entire vorld-view iss zhatterink like ze. . . zing zat zhatters. A course of treatment I am recommendink. Pliss to be tellink me about your mother.
From now on all your post need to be written like this
While this 1st movie had its faults, I think a sequel has the potential to be one of the best Superman movies to date. Provided of course that the villain in the next movie has better scheme that doesn't involve real estate.
Posted by Da_bang80 (Member # 528) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mars Needs Women: From now on all your post need to be written like this [/QB]
Why? So that we always have to take an extra couple minutes just to understand what the hell he's saying?
I saw a commercial for the Superman Returns Video game. Looks pretty neat, but how does the health system work if he's pretty much invulnerable? Do all the bullets/enemy attacks have kryptonite in them?
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
I always hated that, making a game with nigh-invulnerable heroes, like RoboCop or the Terminator, and forcing them to be wimps. Even the Predator in AvP 1&2 was much more wimpy than in the movies. In the second movie alone, he took about 50-60 pistol and rifle rounds to his armor, then 7 shotgun blasts to his bare abdomen. Then he went toe-to-toe with Glover, just warming up like.
I could maybe see a modern rendition of Zod & Co in a sequel. They could make use of their new powers much more creatively than the first time around, which was still pretty good.
If not that, then something else coming from Krypton and getting supercharged. Something nasty. But not a third movie, with Dave Chapelle that learns how to use computers, gets a job with a rich guy that is planning to build a supercomputer to finish off Superman. And Dave's sitting at the computer shooting up Cal-El, going all "GaGaGaGa! In yo face, whiteboy! Oh it's so good!"
Posted by Da_bang80 (Member # 528) on :
Well, It's kind of hard to make a game fun if there's no challenge to it.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Therein lies the problem with Superman as a character: he's boring. If he cant be hurt, looks great, is wildly popular and can do anything, the character gets annoying real fast- might as well read a comic about the adventures of Jesus (assuming Jesus could fly and had a really dumb reporter girlfriend that he never slept with).
The Justice League cartoon did right by Superman by both making him not-quite so invulnerable and giving him frustration over the restraint he must always use when fighting baddies.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
That's why I don't care much for DC anymore. 1: Everyone is more or less goody-two-shoes and 2: most of the heroes only define themselves through, and stand out because of, their costume, which receives only minute alterations over the years.
Marvel and X-Men is somewhere inbetween, I think. The big labels can be PG-13 lame from time to time, but the flux and hero body count of the "Exiles"-series for example (granted, made possible through the "near-infinite timelines"-plot device) makes everything very uncertain. Like in the first half of LOST season 2, almost anyone can go at any time.
That's why I think the MAX-series of later years, especially Punisher, is a nice change. Everyone gets hurt and ethics are out the window. Castle reminds me of Roland Deschain sometimes. Anyone know how long until the "Dark Tower"-comic hits the shelves?
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
Hey, I *finally* saw this movie last night! (Okay, so it took a while. That happens when you have kids.) I was actually suprised that I enjoyed it so much. So many nods to the first Superman movie in it, even down to the style of the opening credits. Rescuing the airplane in a packed baseball stadium was a hell of an entrance to make.
Even so, I did have an issue with the ages of the various actors. Superman and Lois look way too young, and this 5 year old boy looks like he's a least nine. (I have a 7 year old son myself.) Reeve and Kidder were 26 and 30 for the original, and Routh and Bosworth are 27 and 23. They should have gotten actors who at least looked like they were in their mid-30s.
Possible deleted scene? When Lois' purse breaks and the contents spill out, Clark's glasses also fall off. They seemed to make a point of showing him picking up her phone with his glasses off. Maybe it was a camera phone that took his picture (sans glasses) when it dropped? Might have been interesting to see what might have resulted from that.
My wife and I both thought it was absolutely hilarious that it takes the boy about 2 seconds to realize who Clark really is. He never said anything, but it was obvious from the look on his face. We both love the quote from that one future badguy in the TV series Lois & Clark: "How stupid is she?!?"
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Tempus: Hello?! DUH!!
I'm guessing they went with such youthful actors because they wanted to renew the franchise - and if a new generation audience was to get with Clark and Lois, then they'd have to be rejeuvenated to grow old along with them.
Mark
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Haven't seen it yet - missed it at the movies and well, just haven't gotten around to watching it. Same with the new Batman.
Posted by The Ginger Beacon (Member # 1585) on :
The Batman film is worth the effort if you didn't like the Tim Burton films. As for Superman Returns, if you saw the first one with Christopher Reeves, you've seen Superman Returns pretty much. There are one or two palaces where the script is virtualy lifted from the first one.
Still, it's enjoyable, and GOD it was good to hear that theme at the cinema. Although, unlike The Phantom Menace, the nerds didn't clap and cheer when the music began.
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: I'm guessing they went with such youthful actors because they wanted to renew the franchise - and if a new generation audience was to get with Clark and Lois, then they'd have to be rejeuvenated to grow old along with them.
I hate this kind of crap that's happening in Hollywood now. The younger kids wouldn't identify with Lois anyway since she had a son of her own. There is absolutely no reason not to use older actors for anything. I'm glad Galactica wasn't forced into younger actors for many of the parts.
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