Right... big fan of DW here.... way before Star Trek.
Bit of a rewind though......
Right throughout the second season of the new Doctor Who we were bombarded with and subsequently annoyed by the constant droll Torchwood references. For me, after all the hype, after all the build up, we finally get Torchwood.....
What an anticlimax....
I have given the series a fair chance, and waited for things to pick up, get better. In fact, all that has happened is that they have continued in a fairly dross way with a plot led series with two dimensional, flat, and quite frankly dull characters who seem to have nothing better to do other than whinge about how much they dislike working for Torchwood.
In fact if there was not a connection between DW and TW, the series would probably be canned at the end of its first run. Or possibly it would never have got made in the first place.
So, let me first start with the series....
1/ Why does every plot seem to be driven by sex of some description or have some weird sexual reference, sub plots or inuendo in it? I will say that fair enough, it is an adult series, but unless you are trying to appeal to the teen audience, why both with it to this level?
2/ Are they trying to be desparately unprofessional? There are scene in virtually every episode where you nearly burst out laughing as they do something that in the real world would just seem comical. For example, the Gwen learns how to shoot a gun bit.... Funny...
3/ Why does nearly every episode feature an overindulgance of Ketchup? I mean, seriously, have they bought shares in Heinz? But seriously, why is it that in every gorey scene, it just looks like someone when mad with several super soaker 500's full of blood. Its just squirted everywhere, randomly.
4/ And finally why is it that they can employ CGI specialists and still get the green screen stuff so wrong....? Take last week for example. Tosh watches as girlfriend turn in to alien. Taller and floating, she looks up. Girl turn back to human... where is Tosh looking..... the ceiling.... I half way expected the alien to say.... "eerrrr., I'm down ere luv...."
So, lets take a look at the props....
The Torchwood facility has been well designed, but at the end of the day, its a Sewer... Nothing more or less. It is dank, dull, and so badly laid out it is unreal. But in a way, I suppose it is in fitting with the series. And their fantatic "SUV" - Oh I really love that. Now as a lover of cars, this is a major gripe for me. Its a Landrover DISCOVERY with "bits" stuck on it. I just love it... Torchwood, the most well guarded secret in the UK.... driving round in a Pimp my Ride Landrover..... I mean you are sticking out like a sore thumb... there are two kinds of people who drive Disco's.... Farmers and people with little to no taste. And now it seems, Torchwood.
Okay, let look at the characters...
Captain Jack.. the most interesting one in the who series. But what happened to him? Gone is the defender of the Universe and it has been replaced by this mass murderer who is ever so happy to blow someones head off if they don't fit with his philosophy. All said and done, he is the only one in the whole series who is 3D....
Gwen... Welsh, ex-cop, unfaithful to her boyfriend.
Tosh.. Lesbian computer geek.
Owen.. Obnoxious medical guy who likes shagging.
Yanto.. Suicidal coffe guy who may in fact be gay?
Postage stamp character profiles there folks. And yet that is just about ALL we know of these characters from the way they have been portrayed in the series. They are dull, flat and two dimensional. The only common bond they share is that they work for Torchwood, and it seems none of them like working for Torchwood. Can you imagine their Christmas Party???
Finally, there is just one saving grace for the whole series. The writing. I have come to expect good things from the team that recreated the 21st Century Doctor Who and they have not disappointed. The plots are good. Twisted, devious and slightly warped, not to mention tackling many social taboos, they have done well. But there are some glaring problems. Humour is one vital element that made DW such a success, and Torchwood leaves you feeling flat and even depressed after watching it. Almost every episode ends on a sour and distasteful note which usually involves loss or death.
So.... my thoughts so far. Will it get better? We hope so.
Chris
Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
Well, you pretty much covered everything, and I can only agree. But some other annoying/nonsensical things:
What's with all the standing on rooftops? We thought we'd seen the last of it, but no, last week we find Jack standing on a roof again for no apparent reason. It's not clever.
Owen seems on the verge of raping Gwen and then what does she do? Gets in bed with him! Brilliant idea! I'm sure that's EXACTLY what would happen in real life!
Ianto, the most pointless character in the history of scifi? For a while I was holding out hope that he might have a secret ability, or maybe he was an alien.. anything would do.. but no, wrong again, he really is just the tea lady.
Oh and the sex is just stupid, it's like they think having some people fuck makes it a mature drama, but it just comes off looking crass and tacky.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Torchwood is trying too hard, IMO. If they'd kept the Doctor Who style storytelling with more mature characters and a LOGICAL sprinkling of sex and violence, then it would have been an outstanding show. I didn't watch Buffy or Angel, but I've enjoyed Doctor Who thoroughly. Torchwood less so; I'll finish off the series, but if it isn't asked for a second, I won't weep too much about it.
As it stands, Captain Jack was an interesting character who here isn't given enough to work with. Everyone else may have had potential, but they just haven't been too likeable (not the fault of the actors, for the most part). Everyone likes flawed characters, but this is a bit off the deep end IMO.
Mark
Posted by StationMaster (Member # 63) on :
I think the worst thing about it is this.
On Doctor Who, as in the original, was cheap, low budget (translates as utterly naff). As in "we need an alien this week....." and then "I know, I will put a cardboard box on my head with a few milk bottle tops and presto, this weeks alien". When the new DW came through, with a more sizable budget, good special effect, etc, it was amazing. However, virtually all DW fans agree that there are moments.... utterly naff, low budget, cringe worth moments in the new DW. And yet, we, as fans, let them get away with it, because it IS Doctor Who. In fact, if it was a flashy, high budget, CGI filled romp, then in truth, it would not be DW anymore (much like the mini movie thing).
However the big wigs thought that they could do a "its not a spin off, but a stand alone series" spin off, and they could get away with it. Wrong.
And while the first series of DW left you teetering on your seat with the "what is Bad Wolf?", the second was Torchwood..... and by the end of it, you were ready to shoot the next person that said Torchwood. There was no mystery, no "oooh what is Torchwood?" Nope, this was a promotional gimmic.
So, what is Torchwood's "ohh" thing? Captain Jack cannot die.....
Sorry, but to be blunt, surely that makes him, oh, lets just say (spoiler)...
A Time Lord?
Have the Time Lords been reborn through the Human race? Is the Doctor no longer alone in the Universe.... Well, at least he could stop whinging about it....
And does that also apply to the others on Sat 5 who were brought back?
Sorry, but if that is the way they are going, which judging by the hap hazard way they are scripting the shows, then sorry folks, but no point in leaving us in suspense... we guessed it already.
Yawn.....
BTW - the series was fecking me off that much I had to write the original post.....
Chris
Posted by StationMaster (Member # 63) on :
Oh.. sorry, forgot one......
The theme music.
Di Di... Di Di ... Didi
WHAT? Oh, come on. Its the kind of music you would find in an advert, not a television show. I have farted better, and dare I say longer tunes....
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Jack's no Time Lord. I don't remember the last time the Doctor shrugged off being shot like that. Also, there have been other immortal beings in the history of Doctor Who - Jack is simply now one of them.
Mark
Posted by Zipacna (Member # 1881) on :
Um, if Jack was a Time Lord they'd have had to change the actor three or four times already. He'd have regenerated several times by now. He was resurrected by the time vortex, and presumably that must keep on happening (probably because Rose didn't really know what the hell she was doing with it).
Oh, and since when has Jack been defender of the Universe in any of his appearances anyway? First time we saw him he was a glorified thief and con artist!
Posted by StationMaster (Member # 63) on :
The whole point of the Jack character was to show someone who was essentially a good one (if weird) who ended up getting involved in the dark side, and enjoyed it (the whole lost memory thing with the Time Agency). Since being with the Doctor, he changed to the point of self sacrifice in order for a cause (DW end of season 1), only for the Doctor to cut and run, therefore upsetting him.
Perhaps this was something the Doctor knew when he did it... did he know what had happened, and done his usual runner?
The whole point of Jack was to turn the character around to being a good guy..... And for what? To make a not so good guy out of him?
Anyhow.... progress report on yesterdays Torchwood......
(Spoilers if you dont want to read....)
Well, what a surprise and turnaround. No Ketchup.... (okay, there was a little) No plot revolving around sex...
It was a breath of fresh air.... They even chose a plot which was actually a fair premise.
And then promptly cocked it up big style.
Postage stamp plot profile.... Guy dies - become ghost - follows torchwood around - learns how pathetic his life was - goes in to light.
That is it. This could have been a fantastic story, except they based it around some hyped up looser whos life was absolutely rubbish.. dare I even say pathetic. By the end of the episode I had the following thoughts.... Why did I just waste 45 minutes of my life watching that.... Oh... I'm depressed again... Wonder if the actress that plays Gwen is going to get her teeth fixed? Why is it Jack does not pop a cap in Owens head... spiteful, horrible little s*it he is...... Will this series ever be good...?
Sadly, I have to say... another missed opportunity for Torchwood there...
Roll of Next week....
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Heh, I thought you'd hate it, seeing as it was a virtual re-tread of "Love & Monsters" and we all know how much you hated THAT one. . . 8)
Posted by StationMaster (Member # 63) on :
Quriky British Sci Fi is one thing... but when you are handed a good premise and then you fubar it to that degree....
seriously.... my mind started to zone out halfway through the ep... I looked at my wife along the lines of "when is something going to happen..."
and yes... Love & Monsters was naff also....
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
My major MAJOR gripe with TW is the complete unprofessionality of this supposedly highly classified agency. If this group of dysfunctional people is all that stands between us and alien invasion, then please let the Doctor come back!
And what the hell kind of secret organization drives around in a car WITH THEIR NAME ON IT. And what the hell are those tacky blue lights for?
I agree. Torchwoods needs to stop. Jack will be back on DW for the next season if I understand correctly, and that should be enough to finish his storyline.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
According to the latest scuttlebutt, Torchwood WILL be brought back for a second series, and the various BBC channels are fighting for the rights to air it. It currently airs on BBC3, which is apparently known as the "low end programming" channel of the lot (the flagship channel is BBC1, which shows Doctor Who). Now that Torchwood is a relative ratings hit (it beat a new episode of "Lost" this week, apparently), the BBC1 and 2 are angling to get the show promoted to where it can do better for them. BBC3, where it started, wants to keep their best show.
I agree with most of what was said here... Torchwood isn't coming off as well as it could, or ought to. A second series will hopefully better the thing, but as it stands, it's not hitting the ground running like its parent show.
And Torchwood ISN'T a super-secret organization, per se. Not if the police knows of their existence, and random people can find out oodles about them by searching on the internet. They're not SECRET, they just don't advertise themselves or where they hang out. They may have been super-secret in days past, but in the early 21st, they've been outed.
Still makes no sense to have "TORCHWOOD" on their car, though. And the blue lights? Ask any import car mod geek. They make the car go FASTER, silly!
Mark
Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
It's actually shown on BBC3 on Sunday and then repeated on BBC2(which has waaaay more viewers, I'd imagine) on the Wednesday. So it's more a question of which channel gets to show it first. I didn't know there was a fight over it, but usually when shows are successful they get put on BBC1. Scifi dramas are traditionally an exception, though.
Doesn't really make a difference on either side of the pond, of course.
I really liked the episode the other day; "They keep killing Suzie", I think it was called. The scene where Gwen and Suzie discussed death as Gwen was slowly dying was kind of chilling. That's probably the first time Torchwood's really lived up to its potential, in my eyes. Shame that last bit with the stopwatch and the wanking contest spoilt it all. Why do they always have to ruin it with crass sexual references?
Posted by Zipacna (Member # 1881) on :
quote:Originally posted by StationMaster: the whole lost memory thing with the Time Agency
I think it would have been better if they'd written it so that the memory loss business was due to Torchwood, not something that's happened in his past. As things stand, it just makes them look like they've forgotten about it.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
The writers have said that Jack's memory loss will NOT be resolved in Torchwood, but will instead be addressed at least in part during Jack's forthcoming time on Doctor Who late in the third series. It makes sense, since the memory hole was established on that show in the first place, and not referenced there either after the first time.
After THAT, though, it looks like Jack will be back fightin' crime under the fountain, though probably with a character makeover once he meets the Doctor. Why? Because Torchwood has been confirmed for a second series!
It will also be moved to BBC2, and will doubtless be repeated on BBC3 afterwards. This likely means a bump in the ratings for next year, although the folks at BBC3 are probably mad at losing their star show...
Mark
Posted by Zipacna (Member # 1881) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: It will also be moved to BBC2
Thank God for that...it's a pain in the whatsname trying to get BBC3 to be watchable every week. The amount of times the satellite signal is affected by a slight gust of wind is just not funny (it's a major problem in parts of South Wales, and an irony that those of us just 20-miles from where it's being filmed have trouble watching it on the first airing).
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
"Indeed," says the guy who can drive by the Stargate franchise soundstages in Vancouver, but has to wait till months after the Americans watch his favorite show to discuss it with his friends who don't download it.
Mark
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Heh. When we moved into our house (just over the bridge from Cardiff) we had a digital-capable TV aerial installed, our Freeview box gets 100% perfect reception. Just didn't see the point in paying �40-odd a month for Sky.
Posted by StationMaster (Member # 63) on :
Dr Who - Christmas Special.....
(WARNING - this is a little too sexual so if you don't want to be offended, don't read it... sorry Charles)
Can you just imagine if Torchwood 4 were doing the operation?
"Jack! Its the Priminister on the phone...," Tosh shouts across the room
"Tell her to feck off, I'm having a wank..." Jack replies from his office.
"Jack! It's something about an alien ship over london.."
Owen laughs. Tosh glares at him. "What?" Owen laughs, "We are Welsh.... who cares if London gets wiped off the map. At least we might get the weather people to give proper regional reports...." "So do you want to take this call?" Tosh snaps glaring at him... "No darlin," Owen replies, "Suzies under the desk giving me a blow job.... do you want to join in?"
Yanto mooches across the room... Tosh looks at him. "Yanto, why do you have such a crap name?" Tosh asks. Yanto stops shocked... "Oh bugger... did I say that out loud....." Tosh mutters.... Vague gurgling sound comes from under Owens desk. "errr.... Tosh," Owen says gasping, "Arn't you forgetting something..." Tosh looks around questioningly "Oh bugger, my coffee... bet its cold now..." "No you silly bint... the Priminster!" "Oh crud," Tosh blurts out. "JACK YOU ARSE!" Tosh calls out, "Stop wanking and come take this phone call!"
A second later Jack appears from his office looking his usual handsom self, hair all neat and pretty... Jack gives Yanto a very sexual smile. Owen gives Jack a puzzled look as he zips his trousers up and suzie appears from under the desk. "Jack, what brand of hair gel do you use... I really must get some..." Jack gives Owen a cocked smile. "Who said I use hair gel??"
Jack looks at Tosh. "Now, what is so important that I had to stop my tantric wanking...." "Err.... ooohhhh.... sorry, its the priminister there is a .... ahhhh .... alien ship over ... mmmm... London." "Why in the name of god does that bother me... I'm American! As long as it is not over my head, who cares..." He pauses for moment... "Are you okay?" "ooohhhh its nothing Jack... Suzies is under my desk annnndd... ahhh... has just pulled my knickers down...."
"Cool! Can I watch?" Owen shouts out from across the room trying to sneek a peek.
Across the room Yanto is sneaking a cofin it to the building... nobody notices.
"Right, what the feck can I do for you," Jack says. Jack listens intently, occasionally uttering the odd mmmm and yes. "Okay.. yes, I understand. You know, and I don't mean you any diesrespect here, but you should call that sexy woman at Torchwood One. I think the switchboard put you through to the wrong number. No... this is Torchwood Four. We investigate sexual inuendos and cases involving lots of Ketchup. Yes, I understand and if London is wiped off the map, please accept our deepest condolences." Jack looks up from the phone to the sounds of Tosh squeeling like a pig and banging her keyboard violently. Owen, hands down trousers is egarly watching the whole thing. "You know," Jack says to nobody, as nobody is really listening to him, "Does anyone know what that receptionist of ours does?"
The end...
Posted by StationMaster (Member # 63) on :
And do you know what frightens me....
That could actually be an episode.
Posted by Zipacna (Member # 1881) on :
That's lucky...we can't get Freeview at all in the vallies. It's pay each month to make Rupert Murdock just that little bit richer, or go without.
Coincidentally, they were filming something for Doctor Who in our local cinema this past week. God knows what that was about, but if there's an episode coming up about a giant monster that doesn't like coal mining then that will explain it all. Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
You've got a quarry or mine close to where you live? Lucky! Back in the day, Doctor Who fans near quarries KNEW it was just a matter of time before the show shot there.
Mark
Posted by StationMaster (Member # 63) on :
zzzzzzz.....
Oh sorry... snorning there.
So... last nights Torchwood was.... zzzzzzzzz
Bugger, did it again.
Sorry.
Now, I actually genuinely looked forward to this weeks ep after seeing the trailer for it...
So, off to a good start, a whole world of possibilities. And then.....
Sex.
AGAIN.... Wow. They are really trying to break all records for the volume of sex put in a series. In fact I think they have surpassed anything ever seen before. They should perhaps re-release Torchwood for Season two through the porn industry.
So, Spoilers time.
Three people leave on a plane in 1953 and end up landing in 200? where Torchwood are waiting for them. Apparently they managed to get caught up in the Rift.
There are three separate stories going on through this ep.
1/ Young Girl who gets attached to Bugs Bunny (also known as Gwen) 2/ Sexy Pilot who spends most of the ep screwing Owen. 3/ Grumpy old man who spend his time with Jack.
After a flying start the ep after the first 5 minutes slows down to a snails pace and at times virtually stops. Ironically our three time travellers are deep and rich characters and this creates a major problem. It makes the supposid stars of the show look even more flat, two dimensional and dull.
These three characters outshine the regular actors in their portrayals, however at this point enters those pesky writers again. And rather than do something exciting with them, they plod them through the episode in a very predictable manner until the end. Which is a crying shame.
The result is this.... 1/ Young girl adapts to life in the 21st century and gets a job working in London. Woo hoo! 2/ Sexy Pilot after playing hanky panky with Owen (weasil) make him fall in love with her and then leaves in her plane heading back to the Rift... nice touch in the end, but could have been better written. 3/ Old man cannot adapt, is all alone. He in the end decides to top himself. Jack, like a good citizen, tries to stop him, but the truth is, he wants to die too. So they try to top themselves together.. except Jack cannot die. Looks like he has been wanting to die for ages.
Good old fashion message to people there. If life sucks, kill yourself. YAY TORCHWOOD!
So, and I am getting tired of saying this, Torchwood is given a good premise and then they FUBAR it once again.
The only thing I sincerely wish for here is a Toilet to fall out of the rift and flatten Gwen (and Owen if you could please) and get the Sexy Pilot back and make her a regular....
But we know that could not happen.... this is Torchwood.
Chris
Posted by StationMaster (Member # 63) on :
Oh... a few more thoughts....
My wife, avid Torchwood fan by her own admission (not sure what she sees in it), actually turned to me about 25 miunutes in and said "This is boring... when is something going to happen."
And in the end, thanks to the death of the old bloke I once again felt flat, saddened and depressed.
Seriously, this pap is written by the same people who did the Girl in the Fireplace?
I really am beginning to wonder.
Posted by Zipacna (Member # 1881) on :
Was there even a plot last night? And is there anyone Owen won't sleep with? A plane falls through the rift, and his first thought is "ooo, I'll shag the pilot!". Posted by The Ginger Beacon (Member # 1585) on :
Oh, I dunno. It was better than the shite on the other side. Just.
I did like story 1 (young girl), story 3 (old man) was good, and didn't have a happy ending (although that's not so surprising for Torchwood), which I liked - sick old me.
Story 2 however was just Torchwood style porn. And not very good porn either. The ep was slow, thats not always a bad thing, but the chronicly bad writing is realy starting to piss me off now. If the writers are reading any reviews online then the I hope they will realise they need to up the bar for season 2. Or eaven lift it off the ground.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
The whole point of the episode was that there WAS no evil alien conflict or somesuch. Jack says as much halfway through the episode. The whole thing was about how three different people from 1953 would adapt to life fifty years later. We get three different answers. That was the point. That the Torchwood crew were even there was secondary. As that was the whole idea, I think it was done very well.
And yes, I'm really bored with the "sex ONLY 'cuz WE CAN!!!" attitude of some of these episodes. Though it was interesting to hear the term "fuck buddy" used in an SF television show.
At least Torchwood will have a lot to build upon for next year...
Mark
Posted by StationMaster (Member # 63) on :
Well.... time to take a look at the last three and to end my savage beating of this limp series....
Wevils...... Finally I thought to myself, here is a good ep. Strange gang kidnapping wevils, appearing to send them out on Murder missions.... ohhhh.
And finally the team do some investigating, Tosh amazing does some computer work, Owen (git) does some work too and the plot thickens. Wow... seriously, this is watchable TV.
But it had to happen... just as things get good, it goes down hill rapidly. Wevil fight club.... seriously.... We go from Murder, Suspense, intreigue to boring, boring and pap.... At the end I was on the edge of my seat when Owen went in to the cage....
Shouting... Kill him, kill him. But my hopes were dashed when Jack saved him...
So.... first 20 minutes 10/10. Good Last 20 minutes 0/10 - what a way to blow a story Last 3 minutes -100/10 - we did not get rid of the nob.
____________________
1941 No idea what the ep was called.. Now, writing wise this was a good story. It revealed alot about Jack, and who he had become. And finally meeting the real Jack Harkness (?) was a rather interesting thing. The caretaker guy (forgot his name) was brilliant, well acted and seriously spooky. Overall I really enjoyed the episode and I would give it an 8 out of 10. ........... except....
The kiss between the Jacks at the end. Don't get me wrong, I am not a gay basher. In fact I believe that people are free to choose what ever lifestyle they want. So I will sum it up with this. I was chatting with a friend the other day who is gay about the ep and he actually summed up my thoughts on the matter very well. As Jack walks in to the light (rift), he looks back and that should have been it. But they took what was a touching moment and turned in to a drool fest. Much more than many people are willing to watch.... Once more, the Torchwood writers take a perfectly good episode and ruin it completely with sexual material. And I cannot help but think that this WAS 1941... All those red blooded airforce guys would probably have taken their leader out back and kicked the crap out of him.... people back then were not as open minded as they are today, as Torchwood itself proved with the Time travellers ep.
But.... the story had better writing in it than the rest of the entire series..... so I will overlook it and give this an 8/10. Good.
________________________
Abba-don (Just a joke) Well, it was the series finale so they had to pull the stops out. Really it was take everything we hate about Torchwood and the characters, and then turn them against each other. It was all genuinely well written and the acting was above par for the crew. Except for Bugs Bunny, who has one facial mode - mouth shut and not smiling. If she smiles, you cannot take her seriously, and if she tries to be upset... well, I have never seen anything like that before. The nearest I can get is a 2 year old throwing a wobbly. At times I was laughing through the Reece Death scene....
Our baddie, the caretaker, was fantastic in his second show. With more acting talent in his little finger than everyone (except John Barrowman) he injected dark terror in to the episode. It was stunning.
Overall, the whole story as with most of Torchwood was cobbled together and held in place with sticky tape. But for once it worked and made for an entertaining episode. Although Ketchup made an appearance with the super Soaker blood fest all over again, it could be overlooked as it was the end of the world after all.
Perhaps the highlight of the episode however was the ending as the Tardis arrived and took Jack away from his group of dysfunctional morons.
I think I will give the episode a 7/10.
_____________________________
Looking back at the whole series, I think that it is best summed up like this.
I currently own Seasons 1 and 2 of Doctor Who (new series) on DVD and we bought them when they first hit the shelf. Will I be adding Torchwood to this... no. I will not be buying then individually, and I will not be buying the box set. To be truthful, apart from the last two, I don't want to watch the series again. And with that, in my books it has been a failure.
Torchwood Season 1 - 2/10 Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
OK I've just read Stationmaster's and about 4 of the top posts in this thread. Yes I'm behind - but I've just started watching Torchwood.
I've seen episodes 1 and 2 so far - and everything mentioned in the first post pretty much hasn't happened in the first two episodes. And anything that HAS is fine. I.e. a lot of bitching about little things. This series is good. Who cares if a friggin' 4WD is one type or another. It's just a black 4WD. Sheesh!
Standing on rooftops... I think it's cool. Shows Jack is now a distant lonely character and at the end of the first ep - it shows him taking Gwen with him. An indicator that he will let her 'in'??
Basically it's Angel, and I don't mind in the slightest! BRING ON MORE TORCHWOOD!
Andrew
P.S. No, I'm not reading any more of this thread until I've watched more or all of season 1.
Andrew
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Basically it's Angel..."
I do not have words to describe how wrong this statement is.
Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
Basically it's ripped off of Angel and that one episode of Voyager and Fight Club and various pornos.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
OK 5 episodes down... I've enjoyed ALL 5.
Please don't spoil for me - but I'm now guessing that Jack wasn't brought back to life by Rose... that he was killed and that what ever keeps him alive brought him back. Alive in 1909 in Lahore??
Also - he recontacted Isabelle(?? the old woman) "a few years ago" - is this the point he got back from the future?
Has he even MET the 9th Doctor and Rose yet!?!
How about that no sex in episode 5. Just one sexual predator.
So those Faries seem to be unstoppable?? I wonder if they reappear?? Does Ianto come buy afterwards and give counselling sessions to people like the Mother of the girl who has lost her partner of 5 years AND her daughter on the one day?
Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
They might've given her a heavy dose of amnesia pills. That sure was a depressing end to the episode. Even the little old lady died.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Yes! She was sweet. I kept thinking about Dr. Who watching the episode in "The Doctor Dances" about how rare it is that is ISN'T involved with the death of somebody.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
"Everybody lives... Just this once. EVERYBODY LIVES!!!"
I was getting misty with that line. The Doctor's everyday life deals with so much death and destruction, that it's tough sometimes to believe he simply shrugs it off and moves on to the next catastrophe. In "The Doctor Dances", Eccleston communicates that scene with such genuine emotion that you really believe how a little reprise from the status quo can tremendously affect a guy like him.
Mark
Posted by StationMaster (Member # 63) on :
Andrew.... going to go through your points.
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: Basically it's Angel, and I don't mind in the slightest!
Sorry - but Angel was written and developed by one of the finest writing minds out there. Torchwood also has some of the best writers out there, but the simple plain fact is, they have squandered every single opportunity to do watchable stories. In a five minute block of one single ep, you got more depth, more enjoyment and awesome writing (at least in the first two seasons) than Torchwood has had all series.
I will admit, I am being over critical, but the truth is, I expected so much more from the people who brought us the new Doctor Who. This has also been exemplefied by the fact they would not stop the constant hyping up of Torchwood during Season Two of the New Doctor Who. Perhaps if this build up had not happened, then the massive anticlimax that was the series would not have happened either and maybe the series could have stood alone and found its feet.
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: Who cares if a friggin' 4WD is one type or another. It's just a black 4WD. Sheesh!
Okay.... as I said, I am a bit of a car nut. But, going back to your comment about Angel..... What did he drive? A cool, classic American open top (with added irony as he was a vamp....) That car said alot about Angel and who he was.
So what does the Landrover Discovery with added Pimp my Ride say about Jack and the rest of Torchwood..... Is it low key.... no. It sticks out like a sore thumb. Super Secret Organisation, above the police, beyond the Government. Incognito. And they drive the Pimp my Ride Disco? With added Super secrecy as it has "Torchwood" plastered on it? And where do they park it? Anyone who follows it, will find their super secret base in no time. It is not exactly hard to miss. And with their base being smack in the middle of Cardiff city centre, with busy streets, etc, nobody is going to miss it.
My whole point is that the "SUV" is a product of bad writing and development. It does not fit with the series, it has no place within the series. It does not suit the characters, it does not suit the organisation, and it completely goes against everything Torchwood is meant to stand for. In fact, thinking about it, it reminds me of the Bat Mobile. Except Torchwood does not exactly have a bat cave to hide it in.
Torchwood, unlike Doctor Who was developed by piecing together bits. There was no genesis idea. Russell T Davis said way before the series came out that he wanted Torchwood to be "X-Files and thats life (a British comedy thing from the 80's)"
Watching Torchwood I can see the mix they have used. Take Doctor Who, separate the Tardis from the mixture then beat vigerously with a cup of the X-Files. In a separate bowl, take a cup of Angel and mix with a pinch of Star Gate and Star Trek, followed by a cup full of reused plot line from various sources. Gently mix the two bowls together (otherwise curdling will occur) and slowly introduce a little bit of CSI and Bones in to the mix, then bake for 20 minutes at Gas mark 5.
Once finished, liberally sprinkle The Chronicles or Riddick, I know what you did last Summer, and various soft Porn titles as a topping.
And there you have it.... Torchwood. The proverbial Frankenstein's Monster of Sci Fi.
Chris
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
You have good points StationMaster, but I just feel you are saying it's unwatchable. I have been thouroughly enjoying it. Up to episode 8.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Then you're probably with the majority of fans who do like it! According to various news tidbits, Torchwood has been winning high approval ratings on the Appreciation Index (that is, the index of people tested to see if they LIKE the shows they are watching). The show rated an 84 over the final episodes, where most BBC dramas average 77. The BBC considers <60 as poor, and >85 as excellent. For comparison, Doctor Who averages in the upper 80s. The Sarah Jane Adventures premiere was 77. Desperate Housewives was 85.
Mark
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
So, one could perhaps surmise that "Torchwood" is being enjoyed by the same bunch of people who like "Desperate Housewives"?
Posted by Chris (Member # 71) on :
I enjoyed Torchwood. But I have never seen Desperate Housewives.
Posted by FawnDoo (Member # 1421) on :
quote:Originally posted by StationMaster: Torchwood, unlike Doctor Who was developed by piecing together bits. There was no genesis idea. Russell T Davis said way before the series came out that he wanted Torchwood to be "X-Files and thats life (a British comedy thing from the 80's)"
First off I have to say thank you for the great laugh I just had, wondering what the bastard child of "The X Files" and "That's Life!" would be like. That's Life! was a crappy BBC magazine program from the 80s that had as its highlight a story on a dog that could say the word "sausages". Seriously, that was the high point. Oh and the dog that could jump up and catch water fired out of a soda bottle. While I think these isolated exampled might be over-emphasising the dog aspects, I think they give you the general idea.
What Russell Davies said was that Torchwood would be "...the X Files meets This Life." This Life was a 90s drama about young lawyers having lots of sex, drugs, moderate amounts of rock and roll and other such shenanigans - much more like the antics of Torchwood.
The distinction will probably be lost on all non-Brits here but believe me, for the mental images alone I thought it was worth pointing out.
BTW for anyone wanting a look at the level of insightful journalism employed by the staff at That's Life! check out this video on YouTube. Responding to a viewer complaining about uneven paving stones (oh yes) the intrepid team of reporters got to work and...sent a washed up actress down the street in a low-cut dress with two jellies in her hands to check the "wobble" factor. Did I mention she was in a wheelbarrow at the time? Pulitzer's in the post, Rantzen.
Getting back to the show itself though I have to say I've enjoyed Torchwood well enough, but to me it's never really moved out of the shadow of it's parent show. Another show that I really like, Deep Space Nine, managed to do just that - in my opinion, it ended up as a superior product to TNG. Alas when it comes to Torchwood, while I think it is good and watchable enough, I can't see it ever managing to do the same. It's very much rooted in being a spinoff - right down to the fact that you always knew Jack's immortality would never be addressed on it, but would always be held back to Doctor Who. It's still decent enough TV though.
Posted by Zipacna (Member # 1881) on :
quote:Originally posted by FawnDoo: What Russell Davies said was that Torchwood would be "...the X Files meets This Life."
Ah, that makes much more sense. Thanks for that. I was beginning to wonder for a moment what Esther Rantzen had to do with it...unless Jack's party piece is doing something that pulls your gums back over your teeth. Posted by FawnDoo (Member # 1421) on :
Thinking about Rantzen's enourmous gnashers, is it possible she was the inspiration for Torchwood's Weevils? Posted by The Ginger Beacon (Member # 1585) on :
...or casting Eve Myles?
Posted by FawnDoo (Member # 1421) on :
Nah, Eve Myles has that gap in her teeth. Rantzen's are an unbroken wall of chompers in neat rows, just like the weevils and, frankly, about as terrifying. A vertiable enamelled fortress - of course Eve Myles might just have the portcullis up in hers...
Posted by StationMaster (Member # 63) on :
quote:Originally posted by FawnDoo: What Russell Davies said was that Torchwood would be "...the X Files meets This Life."
Okay - swallow my words on that..... Somehow my brain must have interpreted This Life as That's Life.... Oddly in my view, that is how some of the series ended up.
Please, don't get me wrong. Some eps were watchable, and when it comes to the last two eps.... fair play to them, pretty much as I said in my reviews. But the series smacks of unprofessionalism. The props, the acting, the stories, the cgi. For a quirky British Sci Fi show, it is acceptable. But pit it against the many sci fi shows out there.... I watched it with baited breath, all the way through, and lord forbid, I will probably end up watching season two. But it is not must own TV... it is filling a void TV.
But these are just my humble opinions..... Maybe someone will taken these on board for season 2....
Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
quote:Originally posted by FawnDoo: BTW for anyone wanting a look at the level of insightful journalism employed by the staff at That's Life! check out this video on YouTube. Responding to a viewer complaining about uneven paving stones (oh yes) the intrepid team of reporters got to work and...sent a washed up actress down the street in a low-cut dress with two jellies in her hands to check the "wobble" factor. Did I mention she was in a wheelbarrow at the time? Pulitzer's in the post, Rantzen.
Ooh, it's Cleo! Somehow she actually manages to look quite dignified while sitting in a wheelbarrow holding jellies.
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