(hey, my first ever top-level topic! Notes are gonna be out of order here.)
Oooh, I was *not* expecting Sylar to have been pretending to be Nathan. Explains why Nathan was even more of a dick than usual, though. But how did Matt not catch on to that?
Baby Parkman is named Matthew, aww.
My hallmates say: "Kill the Haitian, save the nation!" Better than The Message.
I like how this episode followed Hiro's travels rather than being purely an alternate reality episode that had no relation to the modern characters.
Aw, isn't that sweet? All Hiro needs is confidence...
Oh yes. And did anyone else catch "the Linderman laws"?
Also. No way is that monument able to hold 4 million names.
Well. That answered some questions. Didn't even add many new ones until the preview. Roll on next week.
(And I still heart Bennet.)
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Hiro is the best character of the lot. I want to have a Hiro costume, both present-day and Future Hiro.
And tonight's episode really shows how bleak a future can be if the Heroes are outed and the world surrenders even further to fear and paranoia (sensible, given the intentional thematic parallels to today's American policies). But we can see here that this future is not necessarily the future that Lindeman wants - his agenda may still come true. I'm constantly amazed at the level of storytelling going on in this show!
Mark
PS - Didn't Peter pull a Neo tonight?
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
In this alternate future, how did Peter explode yet still survive?
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
The same way that Sylar got stabbed and regenerated, while Claire was NOT killed, apparently.
Mark
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
OK, some issues.
1. Since Petey regens, why the Scarface routine?'
2. Why can't Parkman hear Sylar's thoughts?
3. Petey can mimic Hiro. So why didn't he just "freeze-frame" Sylar and off him?
4. Why hasn't "Future Hiro" gone back in time to stop the Gooey Kablooey?
5. Petey has been near Sylar so why can't he demolecularize stuff?
6. Petey has been near Parkman so why can't he read minds?
7. Issak painted Sylar getting gutted by Hiro, but that obviously didn't happen in that timeline, so was the all-seeing "I" wrong?
6. Where was Nuclear Man?
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Nice job pointing out the plot holes. Maybe Fonzie will be able to jump those sharks after all.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
quote:6. Where was Nuclear Man?
Interesting question. Before Peter was told by Christopher Eccleston that he would go kabloom, I would've thought it much more logical that the nuclear explosion was caused by... the emotionally unstable *nuclear* guy.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:1. Since Petey regens, why the Scarface routine?'
Perhaps he was injured in the presence of the Haitian at some point, since he's Mr Power Blocker. Either that or he encountered someone with the power to make unhealable scars.
quote:2. Why can't Parkman hear Sylar's thoughts?
Well Syler has obviously picked up a few new tricks in 5 years.
quote:3. Petey can mimic Hiro. So why didn't he just "freeze-frame" Sylar and off him?
See above. Plus he was pissed off.
quote:4. Why hasn't "Future Hiro" gone back in time to stop the Gooey Kablooey?
Causality. Plus he tried the direct approach before & it didn't work.
quote:5. Petey has been near Sylar so why can't he demolecularize stuff?
Maybe Peter needs to be there while the power is being used in order to absorb it.
quote:6. Petey has been near Parkman so why can't he read minds?
Good question. see above. otherwise, maybe he can but doesn't want to.
quote:7. Issak painted Sylar getting gutted by Hiro, but that obviously didn't happen in that timeline, so was the all-seeing "I" wrong?
Always in motion is the future,
quote:6. Where was Nuclear Man?
I imagine Homeland Security had him put down - especially after the bomb. Either that or he's hiding, ESPECIALLY after the bomb.
Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
How do we know Peter's been near Parkman before the events at the end of this episode? Supposing that was the first time they met, Peter could have got Matt's power, but it served no use in the fight against Sylar. Still doesn't explain why he didn't just stop time, like you said. Maybe he was still thinking "it's been ages since I had a good fight"? It's not like he had to worry about Sylar offing him. He could indulge himself and inflict a little pain on Sylar(as revenge for Sylar killing Nathan) before finally killing him.
Posted by HopefulNebula (Member # 1933) on :
Johnny: when he got arrested after "Homecoming," he and Parkman met. Created quite the feedback loop, too.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"In this alternate future, how did Peter explode yet still survive?"
"The same way that Sylar got stabbed and regenerated, while Claire was NOT killed, apparently."
I'm not sure Peter would have even needed the regenerative powers to survive. After all, Sprague doesn't get burned by his own energy blasts.
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
Exactly. He did a number on the Bennett residence but he was fine afterwards.
Posted by HopefulNebula (Member # 1933) on :
Not to mention he hasn't given himself cancer like he did his wife, either.
Hm. An interesting touch would be to make him immune to his own radiation but not other forms (be they natural, manmade or Exploding!Peter). But that's neither here nor there...
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Hang on - yes... Sylar survives because he got Claire's power? But Claire is alive?? Does that mean Sylar can take the power but the person remain alive - or did Claire just regenerate after Sylar 'understood' her power?
If Ando died during the explosion? Where was Hiro? Why weren't they together?
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: Hang on - yes... Sylar survives because he got Claire's power? But Claire is alive?? Does that mean Sylar can take the power but the person remain alive - or did Claire just regenerate after Sylar 'understood' her power?
Assuming your talking about the nuking of New York it was Peter who caused the explosion. Sylar for some reason let all the blame fall on him, probably to allow himself to become president as Nathan. If people taught that Sylar had died, then they would never suspect their own Prez of being him.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Maybe at the end of the episode, Peter wasn't trying to kill Sylar. Sylar, afterall, had already taken Claire's power, so even freeze-framed, he may not have been able to kill Sylar. He may have just been trying to stall him long enough for Hiro to help himself go back in time.
And yes... I did get a distinctly Neo-esque vibe from future Peter.
Still leaves me wondering why Claire could be brainscooped when Peter couldn't. His wound to the head healed as soon as Sylar made it, causing a bit of frustration. So why wasn't Claire healing up in the same way?
Posted by bX (Member # 419) on :
I think it was the real Nathan Patrelli who got himself elected, and only later with the power of Candyse, did Sylar assume his identity. This might have happened before the presidential election, but I think it would happen after this Congressional election. As Mars points out, although Sylar was blamed for the nuclear detonation, his supposed death would provide him with an excellent cover story.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Hang on - yes... Sylar survives because he got Claire's power? But Claire is alive?? Does that mean Sylar can take the power but the person remain alive - or did Claire just regenerate after Sylar 'understood' her power?"
"Assuming your talking about the nuking of New York it was Peter who caused the explosion. Sylar for some reason let all the blame fall on him, probably to allow himself to become president as Nathan. If people taught that Sylar had died, then they would never suspect their own Prez of being him."
Sylar wasn't the one who blew up, but Future Hiro did say that he killed him, but it didn't take.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Yah, ok, that seems to be a contrdiction... Hiro says he couldn't kill Sylar because he had Claire's healing ability, which would seem to imply that she was killed at the school in the past. But then Clair's still alive during this episode(as a brunette) for Sylar to kill disguised as Nathan... me no understand.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Oh I see what you mean. Good point. Perhaps there was another "hero" who had an ability similar to Claire's.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Perhaps when we see Future Hiro when Present Hiro walks in he's literally only just got back from delivering his message to Peter on the subway and isn't automatically aware of the changes in the timeline. So he wouldn't know Claire is alive.
There is a sort of president for this as logically, that waitress with the identic memory should have recognised Hiro right from the start as moments after he leaves there's a picture of them together on the board. So the show is working from the standpoint that time is fluid so there's no rigid pre-destination paradoxes but the timeline is "stubborn" none the less and larger events have a momentum that't difficult to divert. This explains Hiro's obsession with the life lines and the need to find the critical point.
Of course none of this explains how Peter healed before Syler could pop his lid and Claire couldn't. Maybe part of Peter's gift is to amplify the powers he copies, he was after all able to use Mr Issac's power without the aid a heroine...um...trying ot think of other examples...ok, maybe not, but it's all I can think of.
As for how Syler is alive despite not having Claire's regenerative gift; perhaps in this altered timeline (on which Future Hiro may not be 100% up to date on) Hiro never managed to stab him, or not seriously enough to be fatal.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
I'm working out the Claire thing. It's just hurting my head and I need a piece of paper. But in the meantime, Nick healing as Sylar pumpkins the top of his head off whilst we don't see Claire doing that is easy - drama. I bet Claire starts to heal after the cliffhanger.
Posted by HopefulNebula (Member # 1933) on :
Nick? Who wha?
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
What if after Future Hiro killed Sylar,Linderman brought him back to life? After all isn't bringing things back to life Linderman's power?
Posted by HopefulNebula (Member # 1933) on :
No, it's healing. The comic books on the website establish pretty well that once something's dead, Linderman can't heal it. I think it's more likely Sylar learned something from the cockroach in his cell (that's probably how he faked dead then too) and laid low for a while.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Oh well, I don't read da comics(but I guess I should!).
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
quote:Originally posted by HopefulNebula: Nick? Who wha?
Heh. Oops. Peter.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
As for how Sylar could cut the top off someone's head who has healing power... All he'd have to do is go faster. Remember that he was cutting into Peter's skull fairly slowly. If he'd made one quick cut and popped the top of the skull off before the healing could happen, he'd have no trouble.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Still, hang on.
The alternate future had the bomb because Sylar wasn't killed by Hiro with the sword - as he had previously 'understood' claire's powers back in Texas - presumably. One would assume she died in that encounter.
Hiro managed to stop Sylar from hurting Claire at the Homecoming.
She either dies or doesn't die for Sylar to get her power - or sylar gets it but she regenerates.
Anyhoo - back then Sylar doesn't get that ability - so he's now vulnerable - unless between now and stabbing time - he manages to get ahold of claire again.
"I hate temporal mechanics".
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:She either dies or doesn't die for Sylar to get her power - or sylar gets it but she regenerates.
I'm pretty sure Sylar removes the brain after he pops the skull (I'm also pretty sure he eats it afterwards) and we know that Claire's weakness is brain injury, or rather foreign objects in the brain, so no, she wouldn't have regenerated from that.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
This is true. It's also true that Sylar wasn't too put off by Peter's regeneration - he seemed pretty sure he could figure out how to defeat it.
Mark
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Just an interesting point from the previews for tonight's episode(or or at least an upcoming episode this season), Hiro apparently catches up with Sylar and freeze-frames him... Sylar's just standing there... But then Sylar seems to be able to counter Hiro's ability. My point is, in Future Hiro's timeline, he actually stabbed Sylar but couldn't kill him. In this timeline, I think Hiro won't be able to even get to Sylar. Thus, Sylar's survival and eventual participation in Peter's detonation seems to be inevitable one way or another. However, now that he's able to be killed, they will have a chance to off him at some point.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
We're also assuming there's only one of everyone. We haven't seen anything yet to indicate that each person's power is unique...and Sylar's and Peter's are certainly similar (in effect). I think it's perfectly possible there's another regenerator out there that Sylar got, and maybe even another Hiro- or Haitian-similar power he got his hands on to counter Peter's being able to freeze-frame him.
Also, some Heroes have more than one power that are seemingly unrelated. The Haitian can remove memory and also block other powers (although I spose you could argue he can, from a distance, cause them to temporarily 'forget' how to use them). Peter is a copycat but he also had dreams of Flyboy's power, so maybe a psychic link there. So, maybe Sylar not only understands how things work, but has another power to help him resist other's powers. Or, and this just occurred to me, maybe he understands how these powers in general work well enough that he can counter some of them.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
We also do not know the limits of some people's powers. Fallout Boy only recently discovered he was able to create an EMP in addition to raw alpha radiation... Bennett has run into many of these people, so it follows he may have run into someone with similar radioactive powers, thus clueing him in on how to escape.
Mark
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Maybe a way to get Sylar is to trick him into getting a really CRAP power? Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Heh like the power to ONLY breathe underwater, or something?
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Also, some Heroes have more than one power that are seemingly unrelated. The Haitian can remove memory and also block other powers (although I spose you could argue he can, from a distance, cause them to temporarily 'forget' how to use them). Peter is a copycat but he also had dreams of Flyboy's power, so maybe a psychic link there. So, maybe Sylar not only understands how things work, but has another power to help him resist other's powers. Or, and this just occurred to me, maybe he understands how these powers in general work well enough that he can counter some of them.
I think all the Haitian's abilities fall under "mind mamipulation". We know from Sylar that key to the powers are in the brain (don't ask me how that works with radioactive man or Claire) so I imagine he can block the part that controls them. It's not clear where Peter's dream came from, but I suspect it has something to do with wots-her-face's father who he was looking after before he died. Perhaps he had the power of projecting dreams.
As for Sylar countering Hiro, do we know that Hiro can actually STOP time? We know he can reverse it, speed it up, so perhaps when he "freezes" time he just REALLY slows it down - therefore all Sylar has to do it learn to think and move faster. I'm trying to remember; back in one of the early episodes Hiro "stops" time to save the little girl from being run over. Does anyone remember if everythign was frozen, or were certain things moveing very slowly? If so, that might give a clue.
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
Everything was frozen. He even shoved a thing or two out of the way.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Yeah, giddily poking things around in the air that stopped moving when he stopped touching them. I'm gonna make another comment about this at the thread for the next ep in case people haven't seen that yet.
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