Thoughts!?! I can't believe no one has posted anything about it yet.
It was AS GOOD if not BETTER than last week's episode which I think was a new series high!
Gallifrey looked beautiful.
I was WAITING for that Rogue Traders song to start somewhere in the episode!! Funny thing is - it has been lurking in the back of my head everytime I thought about the 'upcoming episode: "the sound of drums".
I LOVE having Jack there makes it more of a TEAM.
What has the TARDIS been turned into? Is this something we've come across before in Dr. Who??
I'm expecting somehow that we have a change in the timelines occuring to bring things back to normal... SURELY? They could go out on EXTREME cred for this season if they didn't, though!
Do we normally give ratings??
5 out of 5!
Andrew
Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
I thought it was a fairly typical RTD script... unnecessarily childish humour in places and daft references(that music! argh!). Not nearly as good as Human Nature or Blink, which proved that Doctor Who can be mature and intelligent and still grip the attention of children.
Still, it was nice and actiony and kept you wondering what would happen next, so it wasn't bad.
The shots of Gallifrey were fantastic and unexpected. I always thought their vivid descriptions sufficed, but it was great to see it for real.
Didn't like the Valiant.. was that supposed to be a reference to Captain Jack/Scarlet? It seems like more of a blatant rip-off than a homage.
Nice to see some backstory on the Master of course! And his manic antics seemed quite fitting. The opening and closing of the door with the screaming woman was a bit lame, though.
The last episode is bound to end with some sort of reset. The Doc has to be young again without regenerating and millions of humans have to be brought back to life. Don't they? Oh and presumably we'll hear more about that Utopia ship and the reavers?
Posted by Not Invented Here (Member # 1606) on :
quote:Originally posted by Johnny: I thought it was a fairly typical RTD script... unnecessarily childish humour in places and daft references(that music! argh!). ... Oh and presumably we'll hear more about that Utopia ship and the reavers?
Couldn't agree more with you, except that I quite liked the Valiant (I'm a bit young to remember Captain Scarlet), and something tells me that the reavers and Utopia ship will be forgotten. I was expecting at least a half episode of the Doctor and co trapped in the future whilst they figured out how to go back. Instead, that aspect of the story was over in 30 seconds flat. See my comments on the previous episode for how I feel about the pacing of these episodes. The music was a truly terrible choice, but I dislike pop music as a rule. Interestingly, the rythm of the drums reminds me of Lateralus by Tool, which might give you an idea of my usual musical leanings.
Overall, as per usual, not a bad episode per se, but enough annoying bits to drag down my opinion. I thought last week's was much better. 3/5.
Posted by Zipacna (Member # 1881) on :
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: What has the TARDIS been turned into?
If find it interesting that the Doctor's reaction is that the Master has built a paradox machine. Just what a paradox machine does is anyone's best guess, but what came to my mind was the story from the first series (revival first series that is) where Rose creates a paradox by saving her father resulting in sterilization of the wound. Note was also made how the Timelords would have stopped the substerilization from happening... ...it did make me wonder if that's what we're seeing here, and the Master is attempting to restore things he shouldn't. Just what I don't know, but a clever writer could use this to restore the timeline to one where the Timelords aren't dead... Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Not Invented Here: I was expecting at least a half episode of the Doctor and co trapped in the future whilst they figured out how to go back. Instead, that aspect of the story was over in 30 seconds flat. See my comments on the previous episode for how I feel about the pacing of these episodes. The music was a truly terrible choice, but I dislike pop music as a rule. Interestingly, the rythm of the drums reminds me of Lateralus by Tool, which might give you an idea of my usual musical leanings.
Mmm, I was expecting the gang to be stuck in the future for longer, but we all knew the time bracelet thing would be their way out, so it's probably for the best that they got through that quickly. I just hope the world isn't saved by a retuning of the sonic screwdriver and a couple of seconds of buzzing. Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I agree that the music was annoying, but I would have to go further and say that the most annoying thing about it was the fact that it was diegetic. It wasn't part of the score. The Master was actually playing a recording of the song in the room. That's just dumb.
Also, I realize the Time Lords were always a bit daft, but are we really supposed to believe that they regularly take their children and force them to stare into something that's known to cause criminal insanity? (I do like the fact that they used the established Time Lord outfits, rather than writing them off as too silly for modern television. Which they are, a bit.)
Did anyone else think something was off about the "100 years" that the Doctor aged? In only 100 years, a Time Lord shouldn't age nearly that much. I'm not sure he should have looked much older at all.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I thought the time-lord outfits were PERFECT... and they were the grand leather-type collars - not those wimpy looking ones we saw some of the Timelords wear in the Trial of a Timelord series.
The responses so far have been less than positive - I'm disappointed people - this was a REALLY good episode. ESPECIALLY for a second episode and even more-so that it is the middle of a three-parter... they usually fall flat in most shows. Look at "The Circle" in DS9's Homecoming/The Circle/The Seige.
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
I found that things were a bit too rushed in this episode. Especially everything aboard the Valiant at the end... Way too quick. I think that maybe Doctor Who could benefit from a change in organization and have at least 20 episodes per season so that arcs like this could be spread out over more episodes.
That being said, I really like everything else in this episode. Martha's mom being such a bitch the entire season and then realizing that the man she hated so much and tried to get rid of may be the only one who can save them all... Nice touch. It'll be interesting seeing how Martha will pull off saving Jack and the Doctor on her own.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
i really liked it. Unlike some other three-parters that come to mind (like PotC2), this wasn't just filler, and we got some great insights into the background of the Master, Jack and especially Martha and her family. I was truly moved when Martha's dad defiantly revealed the Master's plan and tried to escape, and her mum's subsequent realization that in trying to help her daughter she was in fact helping the bad guys all along. Martha's "I'll do what I like!" line was also well delivered and I think the first time a companion has really lipped off to the Doctor quite like that.
Loved the Gallifrey stuff - there's a million touches in those few moments that will take the fandom ages to work out. Note for example that the classic high-collared Galligreyan robes are back, but so too are their predecessors - the kid Master in the flashback is wearing a version of the robes worn by the Time Lords in "The War Games".
And thank goodness for this episode effectively de-canonizing the looming thing... We basically establish that Gallifreyans are in fact born into families and at some point are genuinely young. This is probably before whatever process is done to them that makes them Time Lords, if that is in fact how it's done - some say that All Time Lords are Gallifreyans, but not all Gallifreyans are Time Lords, implying that upon becoming a Time Lord you are granted your twelve regenerations (or more in the Master's case). In any case, the Master confirms taht he was "resurrected" from whatever his last fate was (be it getting sucked into the Eye of Harmony, or after whatever evil schemes he had going in the novels) to fight in the Time War. Oddly, the Time Lords didn't tell the Doctor this, and they fought on the same side through most of the War until the Dalek Emperor took control of the cruciform (whatever that was, but it sounds WAY COOL). So this is at least the second incarnation of the "new" Master's body.
Hey, did anyone notice that immediately after they arrived back on Earth, the Doctor and Jack were moving identially? They both cricked their necks, they both walked down the street the same way, and right after that they both were sitting in pretty much the same way too.
Mark
Posted by Charles Capps (Member # 9) on :
So I caught up on all of season three this weekend... and yeah, I have to agree with what was said above. It's typical RTD, and thusly really needs to work on the pacing. I expect part three to be hackneyed and a giant deus ex, as usual... and still be very entertaining and still worth watching.
I can't wait.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Come to think of it, I fear the finale to be a retread of sorts of the Torchwood finale, where everything is bleak, people are dying by the bucketfull, and the the heroes pull a quick solution out of their butts to save the day - the process resetting the world so that the Toclafane aren't killing over 600 million people.
And just who ARE the Toclafane? Well, the TARDIS might be translating for us, and they might just be little mnufactured bodies the Master conjured up, but the Toclafane POV showed standard numbers on their red reticle screens. One popular theory is that the Toclaface are the humans who went to Utopia, and the Master's pardox machine will allow them to kill their own ancestors and get away with it. Who knows?
Mark
Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
I also wondered if they might be the Utopia rocketship passengers. There certainly were enough of them and when the Doc asked what they really were, the Master replied that if he knew, it'd break his hearts. After all, if it weren't for the Doc, the rocket never would have launched and the inevitable bloodbath that follows him around wouldn't have happened.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
When the Doctor's around, all hell ALWAYS breaks loose... To the point where, in "The Doctor Dances", the man was ecstatic that for once absolutely no one died as a result of his being there.
You know, the more I think about the Toclafane, the more I'm convinced that this had to do with the whole Utopia setup. A mysterious signal from beyond remaining space, summoning the downtrodden, hope-free human masses to potential salvation... There to be converted into li'l floaty balls of death. If someone wanted an army, that's one way to do it. It's been done before, but by Davies already, so repeating it would be par for the course for him...
Mark
Posted by Zipacna (Member # 1881) on :
It would work well with where one of the Toclafane speaks of "the darkness coming" or something along those lines to the Master if they were the Utopia humans. No doubt people threatened by the very end of time itself would go to desperate measures to survive, especially if manipulated by the Master...who while being a war-obsessed lunatic, has always been shown as incredibly persuasive.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
What of the 'funny teeth guys' in the future? Their teeth were reminiscent of the Racnoss.
Posted by FawnDoo (Member # 1421) on :
It's possible the Toclafane could be something to do with the future humans...when the Master had been restored in "Utopia" he retrieved a disk of some kind from one of the computers - wonder what he wanted with that?
The voices of the Toclafane seemed very childlike though...if it was the humans from the end of the universe, wouldn't they sound a bit more adult?
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
The disk the Master retrieved obviously had his MP3 of "Here Come the Drums" on it. Ever resourceful, this guy, and yet frugal enough to not want to buy the CD when he got to 2007.
As for the Tocalfane's childlike voice and mannerisms, if it IS the Utopia humans it's possible they lost more than their bodies. It must be only human essence that's in those little balls, so one can assume they were brainwashed in some way.
Mark
Posted by FawnDoo (Member # 1421) on :
I don't know what's more depressing, to be honest. The thought that an alien with a laser screwdriver could take over the world? That little floating spheres could wipe out one in ten of the world's population? Or the possibility that Rogue Traders' "Voodoo Child" is one of the musical works that survives to the year 100 trillion and the end of the universe? Never before has the prospect of heat death sounded quite so appealing! ;-)
As for the Toclafane, they could be Time Lords: some sort of escape pods launched out of the universe in case they didn't survive the war. I always thought it odd that the Daleks spread their bets and sent the Cult of Skaro out of harm's way to ensure their survival, but the Time Lords didn't (at least, so far as we know). Okay, they would fight the war to win it, but surely they would spare a thought or two to contingency plans in case they lost. If the Toclafane spheres are Time Lord technology then there could be anything inside...
Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
Maybe the Timelords did ensure their survival, is it a coincidence that they look and apparently age exactly like humans?
Posted by FawnDoo (Member # 1421) on :
Well, they look human, I'll grant that (second heart and various other biological quirks aside for a moment) but they don't age like humans. The Doctor himself pointed that out in "School Reunion", telling Rose that he won't get old and die like she does. Barring accident or injury, I think Time Lords are pretty much immortal.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
According to the fandom, it's generally accepted that they DO age, but very slowly - there's no discounting how much older Tom Baker looked after his seven years on the show, for example, or how much older Sly McCoy was after three years plus the seven between the end of the TV show and the movie. Even Hartnell, who left because of his age, stated before his regeneration that his body was "wearing a bit thin".
Time Lords on Gallifrey apparently regenerate on a semi-regular basis, as evidenced in "The Invasion of Time" when one Time Lord asks another if he's due for his. They probably regenerate by choice every couple centuries before they get TRULY old and are thus unable to maintain their positions in the Citadel, etc. President Borusa went though FOUR incarnations during the Baker and Davison years, proving either that a long time had passed between the Doctor's visits, or that Borusa was very accident-prone.
What I interpret the Doctor's words to Rose as meaning, is that he won't be able to grow old WITH Rose, which is something she probably would have wanted. To her he would never age, and on some level he leaves some of his companions because he doesn't want them to grow old while he remained the same age. He could deal with it, but he knows they wouldn't.
Mark
Posted by FawnDoo (Member # 1421) on :
Of course the actors will look older, but I tend to think that we're supposed to turn a blind eye to that in much the same way we were with Data for god knows how many years of TNG! :-) I agree that Time Lords will age, but not like humans - the process is far slower and doesn't seem to affect them as much as it does us, so I can't see humans as being the Time Lord "war survival" plan (I could be wrong though, we'll all know by tomorrow I suppose!).
In terms of their regenerations, I always thought that the Time Lords could go for a lot longer than a few centuries between regenerations. After all, they tend to live fairly quiet lives in the citadel: their reputation as "dusty senators" has to have come from somewhere! :-) Borusa (not being the best example, what with him being a bit mental) could have regenerated out of a sense of vanity. The Doctor (again not the best example of a typical Time Lord) goes through the regenerations quickly because of his dangerous lifestyle.
I agree on the meaning of the Doctor's words to Rose: I didn't take it as saying that he wouldn't age at all, but that he would be able to see out ten of Rose's lifetimes and still be going strong.
Posted by Zipacna (Member # 1881) on :
With the Doctor's words, I never took it to mean he wouldn't grow old with her...indeed her very well might grow old. But he can't spend the rest of his life with her...once she's gone she's gone, but once the Doctor "dies" he regenerates and his life continues. I took it mean that the curse of the Doctor is not to never be able to grow old with someone, but to never be able to live out his life and die with someone. He's condemned to time and time again see the people he loves die while he has to be reborn...and no matter what happens, with the Timelords gone he's condemned to never be able to spend the rest of his life with someone (except maybe Captain Jack).
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: Time Lords on Gallifrey apparently regenerate on a semi-regular basis, as evidenced in "The Invasion of Time" when one Time Lord asks another if he's due for his. Mark
If I remember the scene you are talking about (and I haven't seen a whole heap of older Dr. Who) I always took that to be a bit of sarcasm... like "you ugly fuck, isn't it time for a new regeneration?".
Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
The Time Lords must age, or else the Master's aging ray wouldn't have aged the Doctor.
Has anyone read the Colossus: The Forbin Project trilogy? Not seen the movie, but read the books. The third book deals with these two alien spheres (they were from Mars) that come to Earth and corrupt Forbin and Colossus. Their ultimate goal is to wipe out life on Earth and turn the planet into another Mars.
I thought these Toclafane were very reminiscent of the spheres in Colossus and the Crab.
Better than Blink or Human Nature? No. Definitely an entertaining episode though. I'd give it 3 out of 5.
Six billion spheres and only killing 600 million people. Most of those spheres won't do much, LOL.
I've started tapping my fingers like that. Whenever we walk by a statue now I say "don't blink." Freaks my step-son out.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I find myself every now and then subconsciously tapping that rhythym... then I realise!
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
It was a good episode, though I didn't appreciate the trance music at the end when the spheres started dropping from the sky. I mean of all the music thay could have chosen, it had to be trance.
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
There's nothing wrong with trance. If anything, its way underused in soundtracks.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Funny thing is - it has been lurking in the back of my head everytime I thought about the 'upcoming episode: "the sound of drums".![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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