This is topic $$ Babylon 5: The Lost Tales is out! [Spoilers] in forum General Sci-Fi at Flare Sci-Fi Forums.


To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://flare.solareclipse.net/ultimatebb.php/topic/8/1142.html

---

Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
 
Oh yeah, it's finally out. Thoughts?

The verdict? Yay, I guess. It was par for the non-arc B5 episodes, but it was THE ARC that made B5 famous in the first place. Without a huge storyline going, B5 was never that engaging IMO. While I watched it, I was feeling like someone was screaming in my face "REMEMBER THIS? HOW BABYLON 5 USED TO BE AWESOME? DON'T YOU THINK I CAN STILL WRITE GOOD STUFF?!" half the time. Then there's the stilted dialogue, the endless monologuing to silent extras, the bland sets... All the usual B5 standout negative stuff was there too.

[The filmmaking points take an early hit as well, with the first exchange between Lochley and the priest guy being very poorly done - no character establishing shot, poor editing of the exchange, and no blocking to speak of (the two characters may as well be sock puppets for all the movement they did). I'm at best a novice in the film and theatre industry, but when even a guy like me can pick out such basic errors in production...]

Ah well. It's a visit to the B5 universe, and overall it's more or less watchable. But I'm afraid this DVD only serves to remind me of a great show I watched in the 90s, and how the franchise hasn't impressed me since.

Mark
 

---

Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
 
It's a mixed bag for sure, but if there are more DVDs to come then Lost Tales has gotten off to a good start. Granted there's no huge arc in the making (or is there? you can never be sure in the beginning what's significant) though we do get a small piece of the Centauri/Drakh plot with Prince Icandotheaccenttoo-tini becoming a part of the Sheridan house hold, possibly foreshadowing that bit of business from War Without End and In the Beginning.

I was a bit confused by the first part of the story, not so much it's lack of a message (JMS tends to avoid those) but for it's lack of a question. The second part had a clear moral dilemma (what if you could kill Hitler as a child?) but the first part...I can't figure it out.

The scene Mark mentioned stood out to me too. Mostly it felt like a video game cut scene complete with a not totally convincing CG backdrop.
I think it's partly down to the actors not being used to green screen acting and there's a definite - Liam Neeson in Phantom Menace - "what the hell are we doing" look in their eyes.

Of course the space scenes were excellent, Babylon 5 looking better than ever and it was great seeing a Starfury get the BSG Viper treatment for realism. Not entierly sure what the point of Quantum Space was, I mean the Vorlons always seamed to use old fasioned Hyperspace, even when they were creeping around blowing up planets and it's not like JMS to just throw in new tech for the fun of it.

Speaking of Vorlons, does anyone else think the inclusion of Kosh (and incidentally the first ever orbital shot of the Vorlon Homeworld) in the titles a sign that JMS has a Vorlon story in mind?
I hope so.

I think had they been able to do the third Garibaldi/Mars story that was originally planned the set as a whole would have felt more full and complete since I gather that was supposed to be the action packed one. As it stands though, the quality of storytelling is defiantly on par with B5 at it's peak, even with it's limited cast and slightly dodgy looking backdrops.

With a little luck, good sales will get them a larger budget for the next one.


P.S. What is Galen doing with "Agents" on Babylon 5? If my memory serves and this is November/December 2271 then it's right at the end of, or just after what was to be the fifth season of Crusade, which begs the question, will a future DVD tell part of that story?
 

---

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
 
I need to see it, but from what I've read, I have a bad feeling some of it doesn't quite jibe with "The Long Night of Centauri Prime". That'd be a real shame, given the high quality of that book trilogy.
 

---

Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
 
I just realised that the security guard on B5 (who I think is about the only non-principal in the show to have dialogue) is none other than Craig Veroni, also known as the long-lost Dr. Peter Grodin from the first season of Atlantis. Now we know where he went after he got blown up on that weapons platform...

Would I like to see more? I suppose. But I'd rather see something befitting the scale and scope of the B5 universe, and not just these comparatively tiny character vignettes of people we already know. In a sense, this is what you'd get if the producers of Trek or Doctor Who did what the fans wanted and brought back wads of popular characters from previous series, which for me amounts to generally unfulfilling, glorious cameos that don't affect any sort of big picture.

I'm not saying that Lost Tales needs huge space battles or gigantic conspiracies - I'd just like it to actually FEEL like it belongs to a franchise that does.

Mark
 

---

Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
 
I'm pretty sure that JMS decided that they'd start small for the Lost Tales... after all, he was offered a movie contract and turned it down in favor of the DVD option instead. But there's plenty of opportunity to follow up on various plot elements. For example, I would absolutely love to see some more about what happened with Garibaldi and Bester and Lyta over the years! (Yes, I've read the Telepath Trilogy novels. They were somewhat satisfying, but not as fulfilling as actually seeing the characters on-screen.)

Myself, I think the show was about what I expected: a narrowly-focused pair of character vignettes. Interesting stories, decently plotted, with some almost-profound philosophical dilemmas. A worthy return to the saga of Babylon 5, given the circumstances. I eagerly await more!

(Shameless self-promotion: A much longer treatise of part one is on my recently-resurrected website.)
 

---

Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
 

quote:

---

(Shameless self-promotion: A much longer treatise of part one is on my recently-resurrected website.)

---

Just a small point on that, the creature doing the possessing never claimed to be the Devil himself, just a humble servant, he even gave the name Asmodeus.
As to this validating Earth religions over alien ones just put your SG-1 cap on and think for a second. If a demon is one of the "fallen" angels, then who in the B5 universe could possible be mistaken, or falsely present themselves as Angels, are able to telepathically project images, effect the environment around them and inhabit the mind of lesser beings?
Here's a hint, it begins with a 'V'.

I'm sure a creature as devious as this is more than able to manipulate the beliefs that have grown up around him and those like him, so I wouldn't take the biblical interpretation as a literal truth of this creature's origins. But then the truth is a three edged sword.
 

---

Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
 
I really enjoyed it. JMS was maybe being a bit too arty in his camerawork but hey, it made a nice change from the staticness of series-production B5.

B5 itself looked gorgeous. Very good CGI.

Tracy Scoggins got old! Peter Woodward learned to act!! Dr. Fraser has cleavage!!!

Oh, and Ventari? They ever do a reboot of TNG, you got your Data right there - he's the spit of a young Brent Spiner.
 

---

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 

"Just a small point on that, the creature doing the possessing never claimed to be the Devil himself, just a humble servant, he even gave the name Asmodeus.
As to this validating Earth religions over alien ones just put your SG-1 cap on and think for a second. If a demon is one of the 'fallen' angels, then who in the B5 universe could possible be mistaken, or falsely present themselves as Angels, are able to telepathically project images, effect the environment around them and inhabit the mind of lesser beings?
Here's a hint, it begins with a 'V'."

Of course, that doesn't explain why he could only leave the guy's body by being exorcised by a priest.
 

---

Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
 
True, but then do you expect a Vorlon's behaviour and motivations to make more sense when they're cast down, stripped of their corporeal form and imprisoned on a planet amongst a lesser species, or less?

I'd make up an answer, but I think perhaps there is an intentional element of mystery.

Indeed the idea that an exorcism actually working (if you believe in that sort of thing) is a tad implausible when you think about it. I mean if you can scare off a demon by shouting at it, in what way are they a credible threat...but I suppose that's religion for you.
 

---

Posted by Arichamus (Member # 1986) on :
 
Strictly speaking, demons were never seen as threats, per se.
They are supposed to be somewhat fond of avoiding direct confontation, preferring to manipulate and decieve Humans.

Also, they respect and fear Jesus' name, so commanding a demon to leave a Human's body in the name of Christ is an order likely to be obeyed.

Just some things I've picked up.
 

---

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
Of course, the fact that that wasn't his name doesn't seem to matter...
 

---

Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
 
...not to mention the concept of demons pre-date Christianity by several millennia.
 

---

Posted by Arichamus (Member # 1986) on :
 
Correction, the name is Greek, the concept is Jewish/Christian.
 

---

Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
 
Yes I know, from the word daimon, the original meaning of which, from what I understand was originally closer to what we think of as a ghost or spirit, than one of the fallen.

However I didn't say the word pre-dated Christianity, just the concept. You can find references to malevolent beings that are less than gods, at least as far back as ancient Egypt.

If you want to go WAY back, look up the Sumerian "gidim" for the earliest known stories of demonic possession and exorcism, circa 3rd millennium BC.

[ August 07, 2007, 10:03 AM: Message edited by: Reverend ]
 

---

Posted by Arichamus (Member # 1986) on :
 
I bow to your greater knowledge, sir.

On a diffrent note, why did Mr. Strakzinscy call it Babylon5? why not, say, Gaia5?
 

---

Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
 
Gaia is really just another way of saying "Earth", and a place of interstellar commerce and policy shouldn't be named after someone's planet.

Besides, Gaia 1, 2 and 3 were sobtaged and destroyed. Gaia 4 become an online gaming phenomenon, and many people who play it haven't been heard from since.

Mark
 

---

Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Arichamus:
I bow to your greater knowledge, sir.

On a diffrent note, why did Mr. Strakzinscy call it Babylon5? why not, say, Gaia5?

---

quote:

---

What, you thought I pulled the name Babylon out of a hat? Let's just say
that there are going to be some interesting historical parallels....

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sol System:
Man he thought of everything!

Wait, what?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Arichamus:
What about Koom Valley5?
Koom Valley has a reputation for chaos.

---