So, Adama's scream of rage... was that because he found out that his best friend ever is a Cylon, or because he found out that the frakking Sci-Fi Channel is holding back the remaining episodes for another year?
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Who cares, THEY FOUND EARTH! YIPPIE!
Oh, wait, everything is in ruins. Doh!
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Once again, fantastic music and some very nice FX shots. Especially that close-up of the Basestar arming its nukes.
I love the almost theatrical setting of that last scene, with what looked like all the major characters posing in some way. The brief touch between Six and Tigh was especially nicely done.
Oh, and the lovely Dee was back. What happened to her anyway, it seemed like we haven't really seen her since she broke up with Apollo.
For a brief moment, I thought that was the Golden Gate bridge in the last scene at the extreme right of the screen. It probably wasn't, but I was sort of expecting some recognizable structure, although that would've been a bit Planet of the Apes-y.
Posted by shikaru808 (Member # 2080) on :
I thought it was New York. Great episode though.
Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
I think it was supposed to be the place that Lee looked at a picture of earlier in the episode, with some sort of temple structure.
Another annoyingly great season finale, it's just a shame it's come so early and we have to wait so long for more.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
So after a long trip following clues to find Earth, they discover that it's an uninhabited radioactive wasteland.
The twelfth Cylon is SO Daneel.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
quote:Originally posted by shikaru808: I thought it was New York. Great episode though.
Me too. There was clearly a city in the background and the structure we see at the end looks like a piece of the Brooklyn Bridge. Of course that would put the temple in the middle of the Hudson River. Posted by Mikey T (Member # 144) on :
After seeing the episode I thought... what the frak?!?!?!
And then I saw that I would wait a year for the conclusion and thought... FUCK YOU SCI FI CHANNEL. I want it all in sequence!
So Earth got nuked... and so it begins again, again, again... just like the First Hybrid said.
Me thinks that the repetition of the destruction of humanity is not what it seems. Did anyone notice that the shots of Earth didn't really show off land masses we know of?
Posted by shikaru808 (Member # 2080) on :
Right. I don't think I remember seeing any continents or whatever. But throughout the entire episode I kept thinking about that damn final cylon... any guesses?
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
The whole thing has got to be some sort of red herring, or somebody's dream, or a hologram (like in the temple), or they're on the wrong planet, or *something*! And it's not just because I don't like seeing Earth nuke itself into oblivion again, it's because of Starbuck and that brand-spankin'-new Viper. I mean, she had to go somewhere that she thought was Earth, and come back with this new-but-slightly-different Viper. Somebody helped her out - who was it, and where are they?
I'm honestly surprised that Starbuck didn't immediately deck Anders when he said he was a Cylon. She was just in so much shock that she couldn't even think.
FX shots were cool - I loved seeing that Gemenon Traveller-type ship dropping down through the atmosphere along side the Raptors.
Posted by Mikey T (Member # 144) on :
Most likely Kara leading them to destruction has to do with another revelation... that the Cylons and Colonials are closer than what they think.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Wait, we saw North America in the previous finale, remember?
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Ah, but the Hybrid never said Kara would lead them to their destruction... just that she would lead them to their end. He did say also that she is the harbinger of death... but whose death? Why, the Cylons' (eventual) death... their resurrection hub was just destroyed. But then, there's the possibility of procreation, too.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Didn't the Three say the Final One wasn't in the fleet? Or at least one of the Colonials interpreted her that way.. maybe the Final Cylon is already on Earth.
Leoben's speech that Thrace recalled about "children replacing their parents" reeks of this grand Ozymandias/Linderman-type plan again, where the Cylons destroyed the humans to 'purify' them, or something. How that works out with a nuked Earth.. no idea.
Although at this point, whoever is responsible for the Sci-Fi Channel schedule is probably the best candidate for the Final Cylon. Either cancel a series and show the season in full, or commission a proper fifth season, you cheap bastards.
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
It would be quite fitting if this planet is in fact Terra rather than Earth.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
If Three was telling the truth, then Twelve wasn't in the fleet. And presumably if Twelve wasn't in the fleet because he/she was on the basestar at the time, she would have talked to them then. So what's that mean? That she doesn't recognize the face she saw? That doesn't leave many possibilities. A) It's someone dead. B) It's someone we've never met. C) It's the Harveys.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Assuming this really is Earth (which I'm sure of since RDM plays fair) we still don't know if this is our subjective past or future. That structure was clearly meant to be the one from the book of Pythia (temple of Aurora?) so one assumes it's in our very distant past (12,000+ years ago) which would mean we are the descendants of the 12 tribes and the Cylons, not the 13th tribe that has apparantly wiped itself out.
So, with 10 episodes left, what loose ends yet remain?
1 - Who or what are the Harveys? 2 - Who or what took Kara to Earth & gave ehr a new Viper? (suspect answer same as above) 3 - What is the fate of the human/cylon hybrid children and how did a Six manage to conceive with another skinjob? 4 - What happened to Roslyn croaking before they got to Earth? 5 - Will the rest of the Cylons catch up with them? 6 - What's going to happen with the Centurions? 7 - What is the Origin of the Final Five? and of course - Who is the final Cylon?
Oh and I liked how Kat is still being remembered.
Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: 1 - Who or what are the Harveys?
Why is this a loose end? Why does it need an explanation?
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
"It would be quite fitting if this planet is in fact Terra rather than Earth."
I thought that too! I mean even though we saw Earth clearly at the end of Season 3, here a lot of the planet's surface was hidden by shadows and glare. I mean it could be Earth, it probably is, but why the vagueness? Also, I don't know much about nuclear attacks, but wouldn't there be some sort of visible evidence of a nuclear holocaust from space; at least couldn't they have detected the radiation before landing?
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
It depends how long ago the fallout has settled. As for recognising Earth from orbit, normally it's very hard to figure out where you are from orbital photos, like say those taken from the shuttle because of clouds and the landmasses are see from funny angles or are upside-down. It's just in "Crossroads" they were very deliberate in being very specific and definite that it really was Earth. This time there's no need. We know the constellations match and the structure they were standing in seamed to be the same one illustrated in the scrolls of Pythia. Now, I'm wondering if this 13th colony site, given it's apparent structure is supposed to be Atlantis, as described by Plato? It looks to have the circular layout and have certainly, if only partly been overcome by the sea. Just a thought.
quote:Originally posted by HerbShrump:
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: 1 - Who or what are the Harveys?
Why is this a loose end? Why does it need an explanation?
They don't have to, but it would be nice. There's clearly an outside influence at work here (as is said in this episode) and it'd be nice to have SOME clue as to what that's about.
Oh. It just occurred to me they'll have to change the title sequence now they've found Earth. I wonder if this is a good time to break out the hover bikes and the child genius, 80's style?
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Galactica: 2009
Edit: Actually it would be 2009 now, wouldn't it? Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
That's a cross.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Huh. That's either an accident (unlikely, given how it's positioned), or another clue about the time period. Very cool.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Yeah I spotted that too...As Dan said it could be one of a few things though having this all take place in the very distant future would help explain things like Cain's flintlocks pistols and other decidedly Earth-like artefacts from Colonial history.
If that's the road there taking then it didn't begin on Kobol, but on Earth (us) then in our future we migrate out to Kobol (having ignored Al Gore) start a colony (read whatever you like to the whole gods and humans bit) where everyone lives in human sacrificial bliss for a time. Some eventually move back to Earth where they think they can make it habitable again then there's a war ok Kobol and that gets blasted all the hell and the descendents move out to the "Colonies". Meanwhile on Earth civilisation get rebuilt but the usual crap happens and that bunch of humans wipe each other out.
It would certainly lend weight to the cycle of time theory. Still, part of me still thinks they're standing on ancient Earth, not the Planet of The Apes.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
. . . Of course, looking at it again, it could be an ankh symbol with most of the top circle removed, leaving just the bottom-left-hand quadrant behind. . .
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
...or it's just a random lump of support structure or decorative stonework. The whole scene seamed to be intentionally ambiguous so I don't think any clues we can glean will give us any useful answer.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
I would love a look at the city in the background.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Excuse me, but... Harveys? What's that?
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
"Harvey" is a reference to an imaginary six-foot-tall white rabbit from the movie/play of the same name, that the main character sees (or pretends to see), and no one else can. Just like the Harvey-Six that Baltar sees and the Harvey-Baltar that Six sees.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Of course, Harvey is a movie that few sci-fi fans would ever have heard of except for Farscape. Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Incidentally, over at the BSG Wiki, the analysis section of episode states that the ruins are indeed those of New York City.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: Of course, Harvey is a movie that few sci-fi fans would ever have heard of except for Farscape.
Well they should have, Jimmy Steward rocks!
quote:Originally posted by Mars Needs Women: Incidentally, over at the BSG Wiki, the analysis section of episode states that the ruins are indeed those of New York City.
Well that's wiki for you. I've taken another look at it and there are no recognisable landmarks that I can see. Just that they're on an island with a city on a nearby, somewhat larger island or peninsula. Of course it that is Manhattan off in the distance then they'd be standing on Liberty Island, no? Of course they might not be islands at all, it could be that the sea level rose since the city was built, there was allot of debris in the water, which depending on how long ago the place was nuked should have all been washed away, unless there's some sub surface structures that are still breaking up.
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
Wikipedia-wear Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Well I never stated wikis were accurate or the be-all and end-all of knowledge. I was just looking at what was posted in the analysis and noted how they too believed it was NYC.
And Wiz, Bite Me Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Was that water? I thought it was snow...
This is some of the best television I've ever seen. The past several episodes have had my heart pounding in my throat for the end scenes and a big "whooooosh" after it's over.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Well it was moving and there was that remnant of a bridge next to that still mostly intact round structure. Admittedly the water was very white but that was just a reflection of the overcast sky.
Dis anyone else notice Tori go to touch Anders only to have him move away and that Kara was stood over with Leoben? There was allot more going on that scene that appears at first glance.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
THE FINAL CYLON IS THE RED RANGER!!!
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
And, also, Caprica-Six ignoring Baltar in favour of Tigh.
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
Didn't she say that she had moved on from Baltar? Besides, he's got the harem now.
Does anyone know where there's a screencap of that map Lee was looking at? It was on the screen way too briefly, so I didn't get a good look.
(And thanks to Wiz , I saw this shirt, which I thought was hilarious. I wonder if Sean will even get it?)
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
EXCELLENT!
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Your stepmom's cute. Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Ah, so the early 90's nostalgia has arrived. I wondered how long it would take.
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
quote:Originally posted by Omega:
The twelfth Cylon is SO Daneel.
Or one reactivated and SEVERELY P.O.'d Giskard.
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
No no, its quite clearly Duncan Idaho.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
It's interesting too look at all the character's reactions in this scene. I just noticed that Tyrol looks almost amused by the situation while D'Anna is positivity distraught. I'm now wondering of the prophecy of the dying leader that doesn't live to see the promise land actually means that the land they found wasn't what was promised, not that she'd die before she got there. Prophecies can be so misleading like that.
Posted by FawnDoo (Member # 1421) on :
I noticed the same thing about Tyrol's reaction. He also seemed amused when the marines came to take him and Anders away. Perhaps relief that his secret is out?
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
Here's my take on what I think will happen.
The planet with the ruins is in fact Earth, and the destruction happened in real time or not too far into our future (the necessity for a bridge for cars to cross probably means it's sometime in the 21st century). The Final Cylon is somewhere on Earth, waiting for the human/Cylon alliance to find him/her. The final Cylon will explain that Earth actually isn't the "promised land," and that he/she is the beacon to where the promised land really is (and hopefully explaining just what happened to the Earth). I think that the same scenario with the 12 colonies mirrors that of Earth:that Earth was attacked or destroyed itself, and the survivors left to find another place to live, just like the Fleet did, and once this promised land is found, all the 13 tribes will be reunited.
That's my theory, anyway. Probably dead wrong.
Oh, and I think Ellen Tigh is the Final Cylon. See disclaimer above.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I think it's more meaningful if the 13th tribe wiped themselves out. Still, if the final cylon is on Earth then it's obviously going to be Keith Richards. Who else could survive that?
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
I agree it's probably near future on Earth but I don't agree that a bridge necessitates 21st century. First of all those ruins could have been there a hundred years, and secondly, I don't believe we'll have flying cars a la Fifth Element and Star Trek in a couple hundred years or so. Maybe never, unless antigravity turns out not to be a bunch of bullshit (which it might not in this universe what with artificial gravity and FTL and all).
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: I think it's more meaningful if the 13th tribe wiped themselves out. Still, if the final cylon is on Earth then it's obviously going to be Keith Richards. Who else could survive that?
Cher
Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
quote:Originally posted by FawnDoo: I noticed the same thing about Tyrol's reaction. He also seemed amused when the marines came to take him and Anders away. Perhaps relief that his secret is out?
I couldn't figure out what was up with Tyrol's reactions. What were they trying to say? He was smirking in almost every scene he was in, including the ones where he was about to be airlocked and when they walked in the ruins of Earth. I thought maybe everything had got on top of him and he'd just given up, so he was smiling because he didn't care about his wellbeing anymore, but then there was the shot with Nicky that contradicted that idea.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
quote:Still, if the final cylon is on Earth then it's obviously going to be Keith Richards. Who else could survive that?
Chuck Norris.
Posted by Jim NCC1701A (Member # 1021) on :
The final Cylon is...
The Hoff. Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
No no, it's gotta be Dirk Benedict!
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Johnny: I don't know. I was struck by the scene with Nicky wherein Tyrol seemed to have a "fuck I totally don't care if me or the kid lives or dies at this point" sort of look. Slumped, defeated, numb looking.
Posted by FawnDoo (Member # 1421) on :
quote:Originally posted by Johnny: I couldn't figure out what was up with Tyrol's reactions. What were they trying to say? He was smirking in almost every scene he was in, including the ones where he was about to be airlocked and when they walked in the ruins of Earth. I thought maybe everything had got on top of him and he'd just given up, so he was smiling because he didn't care about his wellbeing anymore, but then there was the shot with Nicky that contradicted that idea.
I think his reaction when he was apprehended and taken to the airlock was one of sheer relief: the secret that had weighed him down was out there, everyone knew about it, and he was about to be put out the airlock. The worst had happened and he couldn't possibly get to a lower ebb, so what else was there to do but smile?
As for the later shot with Nicky, I didn't think that was contradictory at all. By that point he had been offered an amnesty by President Adama. His secret was out, he had nothing more to hide and he had the option to leave with the Cylons, or stay on Galactica, it was up to him. He had his son, and they were on their way to Earth. After the sheer hell he had gone through I'm not surprised that situation made him look quite happy, or at the very least a bit relieved.
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
I agree with FawnDoo on this one. To me, Tyrol definitely seemed relieved to have the burden of his secret removed.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Oh, I agree. Though I still puzzle at his expression while on Earth. He's clearly amused by the whole situation.
Posted by shikaru808 (Member # 2080) on :
Irony maybe? Something like, "After all this shit we've gone through to get here..."
Posted by Jim NCC1701A (Member # 1021) on :
quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: No no, it's gotta be Dirk Benedict!
How about the guy who played Andonicus (sp?) from the Galactica 80 ep 'The Night the Cylons Landed'?
But it'd prolly go right over the heads of the current generation of fans. Not like us old timers Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by shikaru808: Irony maybe? Something like, "After all this shit we've gone through to get here..."
That did cross my mind.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jim NCC1701A: But it'd prolly go right over the heads of the current generation of fans. Not like us old timers
Except most of the people who watched Galactica 1980 needed to completely purge it from their memory afterwards... Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
re wild speculation: Some people think Jane Espenson is doling out some clues here. Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Nothing really stood out as a clue in that, apart from suggesting that the next ep follows directly on.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Wild, I say!
(Someone suggests that she is very particular in pointing out that the city was unfamiliar and that you never see the continents of the planet from space.)
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Hmm. Well, I suppose the qualifying "I did not recognise" on the end of her statement about the ruins of a strange city does seem odd, as does the mention that no continents are identifiable.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Help me out here - I was sure Anders was one of the pilots stuck on the Basestar. I know I'm not alone, someone else commented on the fact you didn't see him among the pilots during the brief on the Hub raid. But he obviously wasn't because he was able to be arrested on Galactica. So is that a blooper, or were we just totally wrong in thinking he went to the Basestar with Roslin and Baltar?
It's a shame he wasn't, because if he was on the Basestar then Three's statement that there are Four of the Final Five "with the Fleet" becomes a total red herring - the FC can still be with the fleet because one of the Five wasn't with the fleet at the time - Anders.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
No, he was defiantly left behind in the fleet as remember how he was freaking out of Gaeta's singing and was up with Tyrol as D'Anna's raptor arrived?
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Gaeta's singing happened several episodes before the basestar jumped with Roslin & Co. though.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Point is he went back to Galactica after the Demetrius and stayed there. That's why he's with Tyrol when D'Anna comes aboard. If he was aboard the baseship then they couldn't have put him in the tube with Tyrol and Tigh, no?
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
So is this a real form of starmap/chart or is it just a random scattering of dots the prop team/graphic artists made?
Also, Rev, I think that was Lee's point - he thought Anders was on the basestar, then suddenly he's with Tyrol and getting arrested and put in the tube with Tigh.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Read the first page of discussion here about "The Hub." I'm not the only one who thought Anders was on the Basestar when it did a runner. Thing is I now can't figure out why I thought that. We didn't just assume it.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Wow - ok - so i'm a little behind. But I just finished watching this episode. And actually the first half of season 4 in the last week.
This is the best series on television.
I just needed to digest some things before moving on so I seeked out this thread.
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