quote:

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- I swear to god, is there any freaking parallel universe that T'ealc ISN'T someone's First Prime?

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Well, he's not my First Prime in this reality, 'cause he'd be cleaning my bathroom.
He'd need a staff weapon to do it too.
 

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Posted by Josh (Member # 1884) on :
 
Jaffa - Klean!
 

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Posted by deadcujo (Member # 13) on :
 
Daniel says "shit" in it. It's a very dark film.
 

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Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
 
Twice, yeah. Funny, since he makes it ten years without swearing at ALL!

Mark
 

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Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
 
Producer: "Dude, say shit."
Shanks: "What? No. That's totally unnecessary and it's unlike my character."
Producer: "Dude, we're not on TV anymore with this. We can say shit! Do it! Say shit!"
Shanks: "...That's not a very good argument as to why it's artistically neces - "
Producer: "DO IT FAGGOT! "
 

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Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
 
I thought it was actually a quite touching moment. Daniel realizes he's probably going to die frozen and alone at the north pole and he's like "Oh, shit." Much better than Data's Oh shit moment.

I quite liked seeing all those system lords again. Cronos got a better costume. Also, the visuals on the Goa'uld "viewscreen" was rather nifty.
 

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Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
 
Yu came back, and Yu didn't say nuthin'! Camulus, Cronos, Nirrti, and that OTHER GUY WE NEVER SAW BEFORE had lines, but Yu just STOOD there? What's UP witch'YU, MAN?!

Mark
 

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Posted by OverRon (Member # 2036) on :
 
Spoilers below just in case.
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I was waiting to find out at the end, that the captain of the Achilles was actually Cam and that he was his own grandfather.

I loved the effects in this movie, with the Goa'uld fleet bombarding Earth, but the plot left me underwhelmed. It might have been ok as a 2-parter, but as a stand-alone movie? Not so much. It's the same with the Ark of Truth, it had the potential to be great, but fell short of the mark IMO. Perhaps I was expecting too much of the films, but I had been hoping for something along the lines of The Peacekeeper Wars, which was a great stand-alone movie.

Anyways a good hour and a half's viewing, but not as good as I was hoping for.

On a side note, I hadn't realised the next season of Atlantis starts soon. I was expecting to wait for months.
 

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Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
 
Spoilers below.
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quote:

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Originally posted by Mark Nguyen:
Yu came back, and Yu didn't say nuthin'! Camulus, Cronos, Nirrti, and that OTHER GUY WE NEVER SAW BEFORE had lines, but Yu just STOOD there? What's UP witch'YU, MAN?!

Mark

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quote:

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Originally posted by Josh:

Here's my issues with the film.

- Richard Dean is in it for about 5 minutes of total screen time.

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quote:

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- As I mentioned before, they hit the almighty reset button, ala "Year of Hell".

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quote:

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- At an hour and a half,it's about the same length as a two part episode of SG1, and the plot isn't even, for lack of a better word "epic" as the TV show two parters.

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quote:

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- The bad guy was decent, but he was dispatched in a pretty underwhelming way.

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quote:

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- I swear to god, is there any freaking parallel universe that T'ealc ISN'T someone's First Prime?

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Well since his old man was a first prime, is it so surprising? Is there any parallel universe where Sam wasn't a scientist of some kind?
 

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Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
 
maybe i'm missing something here... but this was aired how? made-for-Scifi movie or Direct-to-DVD event? I didn't even know this was coming out...

of course, it's not like ya'll be talking about in antisapation (accusing stares at all ya'all)...


 

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Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
 
It is released as a direct-to-DVD movie. That hasn't been released yet.
 

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Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
 
Teh Intarwebs got hold of it.

I haven't watched it yet but I want to mention that "epic battles" and "epic effects" doesn't equate to "epic plot."
 

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Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
 
Am I the only person who actually waited for the DVD to come out? Anyway, reactions...

quote:

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Originally posted by Josh:
- The bad guy was decent, but he was dispatched in a pretty underwhelming way.

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Are you kidding me? Baal's look of surprise as he stepped out of the Stargate and realized that Mitchell was waiting for him was absolutely classic. The perfect end to a villain, when he realizes that his master plan has failed. (Yet not ruined by a clichéd shout of "NOOOOOOOO!")

There's one rather big plot hole: if Teal'c and Vala disappeared immediately — presumably because they were among Baal's biggest priorities, and would've been "recruited" first in his alternate timeline — then why didn't Mitchell also disappear, since he had never been born in the first place? (Yeah yeah, it would ruin the story...)

Also, nobody mentioned Apophis getting killed once more for old time's sake!

Overall, definitely a worty installment. To me, Stargate has never been about the groundbreaking, cutting-edge stories the way Galactica or Farscape have been. Stargate is good for solid, interesting, and entertaining stories. I think the biggest weakness of the story is that the four team members were broken up through a chunk of it... especially because there was no Teal'c with SG-1 most of the time.

Of course, Teal'c makes up for it with his totally badass "JAFFA!" shout and blowing up Qetesh.

So, maybe it wasn't as spectacular as the studio hyped it up to be, but I think it was still overall satisfying. ...Kinda like Baal's execution, I guess; some part of you might feel like saying "that's it?" but it's very satisfying nonetheless.
 

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Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
 
I......die.......free. *Qetesh sees the grenade*

Yeah...that was a good redemption for Teal'c not being there most of the time.

This brings up something in my mind again - Teal'c has experienced 50 years of an alternate timeline, in "Unending." Shouldn't he have some kind of psychological effects from that?
 

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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
Probably. But, you may have noticed : dude's kinda stoic.

Now, leaving aside, for the moment, the fact that they can't seem to decide if they want single-timeline time travel or a many-worlds approach, I'm confused by the ending. Did alternaMitchell stay alive from the 1930s on? If so, did he somehow pass his story down through the family? If not, who does restored original Mitchell think is in that photograph? Does he think it's just another relative, and that his family has a habit of all looking identical?
 

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Posted by Josh (Member # 1884) on :
 
Having re watched it and caught up more on Boal's story arc from the end of the series (I hadn't seen the last two seasons when I initially commented) I can say I enjoyed more, but I'm still not crazy about the reset button. I would have liked to have seen Daniel's loss of his leg continue with his character.
 

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Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
 
Yeah, me too. It was interesting to see a really depressed Daniel; even when his motivations for continuing to be a part of SGC was finding Sha're, he wasn't really depressed as a character. It would've been neat to see how his character would handle getting over the limitations imposed on an SG team member with compromised movement and agility. (Although since the show's over I guess we really wouldn't see it much anyway - but I would *really* like to see Daniel on Atlantis, it seems the perfect place for an Ancient-loving, once-Ascended archaeologist! Maybe he could even be the civilian in charge instead of Woolsey...)
 

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Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
 
Daniel isn't the management / leader type - he's had trouble keeping even one assistant over the years.

But I would expect him to show up on Atlantis. In, oh, six episodes or so...

Mark
 

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Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
 
Finally watched it and thought it was pretty good. Lot's of cool drool-worthy stuff. Seeing all the old System Lords again (especially Nirrti), Teal'c back in the armor, O'Niell, Ba'al getting sliced in half, Apophis getting top-knotted... all very cool.

Here's my plot-hole question: Mitchell flare-gates off Praxia to go back to 1929... where did he come out? Two possibilities: 1) Earth - Big problem as Earth's gates were buried in Egypt and at the bottom of an Antarctic cravass. 2) Praxia - Another problem as he's now stranded on another planet with no way to get to Earth.

The most likely possibility is Praxia, as we've seen the wormhole loop back to the original gate in time travel eps before. He would've had 10 years to hook up with some Jaffa, Tokra or other space-capable race and get back to Earth in time to stow away on the Achilles. He would still have been able to use the Gate to find some future allies. And the guy is pretty resourceful. Just would've been nice if they didn't totally side-step it.
 

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Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
 
Good point - I can't believe I didn't even think of that...
 

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Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by deadcujo:
Daniel says "shit" in it. It's a very dark film.

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Watched it last night... and yes LOL! You know when Daniel swears that things aren't going too well.

I thought it was OK. Wasn't to shabby. Wasn't spectacular. It could have been something WAY different.

They had done it all before - with Lost City 1 and 2 - I was worried they were going to go down that path again.

I think the coolest effect was Ba'al's time machine chamber towards the end.

I haven't read this entire thread yet so I apologise in advance but - did I pick up a little slip up - or a technical impossibility... Carter said that she had to be careful otherwise they'd end up in the Cretacious period. That wouldn't have been possible - unless the Stargate was on Earth in that time period. I would guess time travel using the gate method is restricted to WHEN the gates first were made.

Unless the Ancients themselves didn't make the gates... Hmmm.
 

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Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Aban Rune:
Finally watched it and thought it was pretty good. Lot's of cool drool-worthy stuff. Seeing all the old System Lords again (especially Nirrti), Teal'c back in the armor, O'Niell, Ba'al getting sliced in half, Apophis getting top-knotted... all very cool.

Here's my plot-hole question: Mitchell flare-gates off Praxia to go back to 1929... where did he come out? Two possibilities: 1) Earth - Big problem as Earth's gates were buried in Egypt and at the bottom of an Antarctic cravass. 2) Praxia - Another problem as he's now stranded on another planet with no way to get to Earth.

The most likely possibility is Praxia, as we've seen the wormhole loop back to the original gate in time travel eps before. He would've had 10 years to hook up with some Jaffa, Tokra or other space-capable race and get back to Earth in time to stow away on the Achilles. He would still have been able to use the Gate to find some future allies. And the guy is pretty resourceful. Just would've been nice if they didn't totally side-step it.

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quote:

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Originally posted by AndrewR:
I haven't read this entire thread yet so I apologise in advance but - did I pick up a little slip up - or a technical impossibility... Carter said that she had to be careful otherwise they'd end up in the Cretacious period. That wouldn't have been possible - unless the Stargate was on Earth in that time period. I would guess time travel using the gate method is restricted to WHEN the gates first were made.

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quote:

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Unless the Ancients themselves didn't make the gates... Hmmm.

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But we saw that specifically in "The Ark of Truth" that it was an Ancient who came up with the idea for the Stargates.
 

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Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
 
But how long ago did the Ancients *make* the gates? They built Atlantis "several million years ago" but we don't know how long ago they started building the gates...could've been several hundred million years ago, all things considered. (Although I highly doubt they were on Earth by then).
 

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Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
 
No, in "The Ark of Truth," the first scene took place "millions of years ago." No idea exactly how much time may have passed.
 

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Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
 
Yes, that's what I mean - they never say exactly how many millions of years ago. 65 million is "millions" Although I suppose "millions" as opposed to "tens of millions" connotes something less than 10 or 15 million, but not necessarily.
 

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Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
 
Well, I suppose I could check out the bit of "Lost City" that shows the continents migrating and try to match that with known arrangements from the past.... and yes, I am that much of a geology geek.
 

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Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
 
Regarding gate time travel, I see two possibilities of what would happen if you travelled back to a point before gates existed (whenever that might be).
1: The wormhole itself shifts in the 4th dimension through subspace in transit so if it fails to make a connection with a gate in the destination time then you're basically stuck in subspace as energy for all eternity. Which is effectively death.
2: The time shifting effect only takes place when the matter stream hits the outgoing gate (makes sense since a connection is needed BEFORE the solar flare hits) and you get the same effect we saw in "1969" where the area surrounding the gate and everything in it is briefly in two times at once until the bubble collapses stranding the travellers wherever they come out.

The second option seams more likely, given the precedent. So going back before the gates would be REALLY bad as it would strand you without any way of correcting the mistake. Theoretically, you could safely miss the mark by millennia as you'll be sent back the the same room and can take another run at it and another and another. Time being relative and all that.

As for Cameron, showing how he ended up on the ship would be a movie in and of itself, so I can forgive them for sidestepping it. I imagine all he did was steal a cargo ship and fly it to Earth.
 

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Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
 
*All* he did? If you've never tried to pull that off, let me tell you, it's a bear.


 

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Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
 
SG-1 managed it. A lot.
 

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Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
 
And he'd have the advantage of Goa'uld hubris. Back then their security was even more lax than normal and they'd never encountered a modern Tauri at that point.
 

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Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
Wouldn't Baal also know about (and presumeably have) the Ancient weapon used against the Replicators?
That would have made him unquestioned top-dog without anything else...I'd think he'd have to be getting ready to confront Anubis' return as well....no killing that bozo, but if Baal had access to Anubis' secret ascension lab he might well have kept his word about freeing the Jaffa- only to replace them with Kull warriors.

I really enjoyed this movie- much better than Arc of Truth.

Something I was thinking on- the time-traveling Mitchell likely lived his alterna-life and died prior to the Stargate program's start.
He'd be too old to join WWII as a pilot, but maybe he helpedget people out of harm's way without screwing up the timeline and opened a club in Casablanca or something...
 

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Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
 
Arks and arcs are different things. *ruler slap*
 

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Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
Yeah, but...er...it was the Ark that wrapped up the story arc so, I'm right and you're wrong and I'm going back in time to erase you, so there!
 

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Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
 
I did like that Baal's master plan for galactic domination involved, among other things, being less of a big jerk. (Or at least less obvious about it.)
 

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Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
Yeah- that was refreshing: rather than just crushing everyone with future knowledge, he decides to give everyone what they want and get them to serve willingly.
 

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Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
 
"There is a god standing here with wet hands!"

I think it's safe to say he was still a big jerk.
 

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Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
Hey, I mopped the spill on my coffee table with my room-mate's cat: Baal is not so bad, in retrospect.
 

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Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
 
My roommate once mopped up a spill with one of my expensive sweaters.

That line, though, was really funny.
 

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Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
 
I don't think Baal was being less of a jerk because he was promising the Jaffa their freedom. He simply knew that the rebellion would inevitably come, and so used it to his advantage. He had no intention of fulfilling said promise of freedom, though, I'm sure.
 

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Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
Oh, I dont know- The Jaffa would never be truly free in any case- as they requite symbiotes- and Baal could have whipped up his own Kull warriors eventually to keep the system lords in line.
 

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Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
 
That's something I've always wondered about in general... in the main timeline, are the Jaffa presumably still relying on symbiotes? Is there some kind of new ritual where they slaughter the newly-matured symbiote when it emerges? For that matter, are there Goa'uld queens even still breeding more baby Goa'uld?
 

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Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
They all use the Tritonin, I think- no clue how they get it though.
Asgard replication tech on the ships can make it, but obviously not in crazy mass quantities.
 

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Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
 
Maybe they/the SGC/Asgard/some combination thereof managed to synthesize it, or create a group of Goa'uld queens with no consciousness to use as a 'cow' to make more (something the Asgard knowledge would help out with immensely). I like the idea of the ritual slaughter, but they'd need queens to make more symbiotes anyway, so why not just suck tretonin out of them?
 

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Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
That idea, that there is a fresh supply of tretonin sure saves the asses of the whole planet o' Tretonin takin healthy bastards.
No, I cant recall their names- I think of them as "Planet with nice military guy dressed like a Nazi".
Sounds more memorable than P2357

You'd think that some terminally ill people on earth could benifit from Tretonin- people with Cancer or AIDS, but nooooooo: we gotta keep the stargate a biiig secret.
One day, heads will roll for that.
 

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Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
 
I've thought the same ever since Jacob's life was saved by Selmak. Or any time someone gets a grievous injury or horrible disease and Dr. Carson or Dr. Keller just happily says "Let's get you under a scanner."
 

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Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
 
I finally got around to seeing this, and I just have one big question: Was the Ba'al that they extracted the Goa'Uld from a clone, and the original was shot by Mitchell in 1939? That's my take on it, and my wife seems to agree, but it's just a bit confusing. Time travel makes my head hurt.

But overall, I liked the movie, even more than "Ark of Truth". It was kinda cool seeing F-15s take on Death Gliders! I'd always wanted to see that in the series, but we got F-302s instead.
 

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Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
 
Crap. Got another question. So what did the time-traveling Ba'al do with the Ba'al from that time period? I assume he just killed... himself, and replaced, er, himself.
 

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Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
 
Well that'd cause one hell of a paradox...but then we've seen alternate timeline doppelgangers before. That 10,000 year old Weir jumps to mind, as dose Daniel in 'Mobius' so it's not against the logic established the show.
 

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Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
 
I don't think he could have killed himself in the past without erasing himself from the timeline. It's more likely that he locked himself up in a cell or put himself in suspended animation.

And yes, I believe the Ba'al who got symbiont-sucked was the last clone and the one who traveled back in time was the original.

One wonders though... the host has also been cloned. Does he retain the memories of centuries of enslavement?
 

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Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
 
Maybe. If it's a pure genetic clone, no, but if he used any kind of Asgard technology he could transfer the host's memories and consciousness. However, if I were him, I'd avoid that if I could. It'd be more comfortable, I'd surmise, inhabiting an empty shell than struggling against another mind all the time. Unless the Goa'uld don't have to struggle or if they derive more pleasure from the subjugation than pain from the struggle.

Anyway, yeah, I thought the time-traveller was Ba'al-nil and the guy they symbio-sucked (should be called a parasite, not a symbiote, in an adult Goa'uld, shouldn't it?) was explicitly said to be the final clone.
 

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Posted by The Ginger Beacon (Member # 1585) on :
 
Time traveling Ba'al (whom I take to be the original) didn't have to go to the exact same time as Mitchel though, so he could have been plreparing to change the timeline for a while in advance. It didn't even have to be Ba'al who went back, but for dramatic reasons I think it was.

Since he's changed history, from his point of view, in his own lifetime, would it matter if he killed his past self - would past Ba'al be an alternate Ba'al?

It's all very confusing, and the only real plot hole they didn't wrap up...

...unless past Ba'al (from the orignal unhanged timeline) is still out there, as the last system lord, ready to cause more trouble. Nifty.
 

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Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
I think the past Baal could indeed still be somewhere waiting to make trouble, but- as a backup plan, I think Future Baal might have clued his other self in on some key future facts- there could be a version of Baal with a stranglehold on some corner of the Asgard galaxy (once the Asgard are all safely dead, that is, and after Baal re-populates some Replicator-destroyed worlds with Jaffa/slaves/clones of Jaffa that had good performance evaluations, etc.).

My question is- what did Baal have planned for Anubis? I mean, yeah, he could've aced the Kull warriors before they became a big threat but Anubis himself is nigh-unstoppable, unkillable and more of a jerk than baal because he's so damn short.
 

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Posted by Zipacna (Member # 1881) on :
 
Baal's plan for Anubis was probably the same plan that prevented Anubis interfering during the thousands of years he was "missing". Anubis probably came back taking advantage of the confusion that arose due to SG-1 killing all those System Lords...Ra, Anubis, Heru'ur, Sokar, Cronus. With Baal pretty much in dominance, there wasn't so much confusion...just business as usual really, with the Goa'uld fighting amongst themselves.
 

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Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
 
And Ba'al would've also known all about the tech that Anubis discovered or built that allowed him to do his butt-whupin'. Such as the Eye of Ra (and the various other eyes). Don't we even see a ship that looks like Anubis' super ship? That may suggest that Ba'al got all the Eyes and built his own BFG before Anubis could get them.

One-upping all his tech would effective make Anubis an former ascended being whose plans keep getting anticipated. Maybe he even tricked him into pulling something that made the Ancients stand Anubis in the corner.
 

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